Burner Options ... ? [Natural Gas?]

[maztec]

Actual questions, rather than my rambling, are bolded.

I just moved, which is good, except I no longer have a yard to brew in, or a kitchen stove to with enough BTUs to brew on. In fact, my new stove only has a 15" clearance above it [whoever designed that needs talked to] and the burners are 8000 BTU. Which means, no way I can brew on it, and puts me in the market for a new burner!

Right now I am brewing in 5 gallon batches, but hope to move up to 10 gallons and AG in the next year, so do not want to buy a new burner for that change.

My new house has natural gas. In fact, it has a natural gas hookup in the garage! And the garage is vented. Plus, the garage is where the hot water heater (which is natural gas) is located. Thus, it seems potentially reasonable for me to buy a natural gas stand burner for doing my brewing in my garage. Does anyone have a recommendation for a natural gas stand burner? Does anyone foresee problems with using it in a garage, with a gas vent, with the garage door open, near the door?

I have seen a few options, but don't know anybody that uses them. For example: 130,000 BTU Burner.
But, I was thinking of getting one of the ones mentioned in this thread.
Then there is also the Bayou Burner

One of the real problems here is that the natural gas burners seem to be way more expensive than the propane burners. On the other hand, I don't have to hassle with buying and refilling propane tanks (yes, to me that is a hassle, as opposed to paying a bill every other month).

What do people think? Are there any new recommendations? Any tips, tricks, or other information?

Thanks!

-M

 

[mordantly]

i would go NG since your house has it. i have 250 gallons lp in the yard, so i put a smaller orifice in my 90gal boiler-burner. you can get a sweet 23 jet burner cheap.

i'm not saying to buy this one... it was the first i found to show you.

http://www.cpapc.com/store/23-Tip-Round-Nozzle-Jet-Burner-natural-gas-P469C244.aspx

 

[jimgriz]

I agree with the natural gas choice. I brew with propane as well but loathe having to plan for tank refills and the actual process of going out to get it. You are not alone there. As far as brewing in the garage, you should be fine with the large door all the way open. Here is a thread about 'safely' brewing indoors (more like brewing indoors with as many possible windows and doors open).

 

[Pops]

I'd go with this
http://www.williamsbrewing.com/HURRICANE_STOVE_P2213C87.cfm
and this
http://www.williamsbrewing.com/HURRICANE_CONVERSION_VALVE_P2214C87.cfm

 

[Surly]

I'd go with this
http://www.williamsbrewing.com/HURRICANE_STOVE_P2213C87.cfm
and this
http://www.williamsbrewing.com/HURRICANE_CONVERSION_VALVE_P2214C87.cfm

This is what I use. I have a single tier two burner and these things work very well, even when brewing in Wisconsin's winter.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I hooked into my NG at my house and I love it. No tanks! The flexible NG hose and QD's are expensive, but are really safe. My advice would be to think about the future. If you are going to think about 10 gallon batches then you will want a structure of some type . I wouldn't spend a lot of cash on a stand if you will be removing the burner and using it in your future structure. Just my opinion. I use the 20 tip NG jet burners. A lot of guys here don't like them, but I love mine. Look at www.tejassmokers.com
There is a lot of burner information there and flexible gas hoses and things. There prices are high, but you can get info for what to look for. If I had it to over again, using NG, I would go with the Hurricane burner because of the control you have on the flame. I do like having the wind gaurds like on the fab stand you posted to help contain the heat. If you go jet burner you have to have more distance from the kettle bottom because they need a lot of air to mix and burn efficiently. This is another advantage to the hurricane. Infinate control of the heat. Just my $.02 My next build will be electric though

 

[maztec]

Thanks! Great information from everyone. Especially about heat control, good to know what works best.

-M

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

i would go NG since your house has it. i have 250 gallons lp in the yard, so i put a smaller orifice in my 90gal boiler-burner. you can get a sweet 23 jet burner cheap.

i'm not saying to buy this one... it was the first i found to show you.

http://www.cpapc.com/store/23-Tip-Round-Nozzle-Jet-Burner-natural-gas-P469C244.aspx

I have this same one, and I use it for my HLT burner. It's WAY overpowered, and I can only run it at 3/4 power. I ran it full blast to test out how fast it could heat up 10g of liquor. And the verdict is, FAST...sadly it also heated up my thermometer fast too, and cracked the glass on the front. Other than that, it's been a great burner and it burns clean even when I turn down the gas.

If I were going to do it again, go for the 10 tip...it throws plenty of heat for a 10g batch and is likely a bit overkill even for your 5 gallon batches. Running on NG is awesome, but please be careful setting it up if you go this route. Check all connections with soapy water prior to firing up the burner. If you're at all unsure about setting this up, trade a professional some beer to make sure it's correct and safe.

Have fun, be careful, and don't burn your face off!


EDIT: Here's a pic of my ghetto rigged NG burner, strapped to an SQ-14 stand. Works just fine, and sooner or later everything will be going into a brew stand. For now, this is MY ugly junk!

 

[zanemoseley]

I went with a Hurricane and used a 3/8" Charbroil QD hose kit from Lowes which is a lot cheaper than the huge QD hoses. I'm trying to get my hands on a keggle so I can try it out on 10g batches but from what I've seen I'll be ok. Here's a thread I started after receiving it.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/natural-gas-hurricane-pics-158318/

 

[Dog House Brew]

I went with a Hurricane and used a 3/8" Charbroil QD hose kit from Lowes which is a lot cheaper than the huge QD hoses. I'm trying to get my hands on a keggle so I can try it out on 10g batches but from what I've seen I'll be ok. Here's a thread I started after receiving it.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/natural-gas-hurricane-pics-158318/

The larger line with QD's I bought so when it came to a structure, burning multiple burners at once, I could keep my BTU's to rated specs. More demand = more volume. I have to run my 20 tip at about 1/2 or everthing metal begins to glow.

 

[maztec]

Hmm. How far can I run the hose? I just realized my setup is going to require at least a 5' hose .. and I might want to take it outside sometimes, which would be more like 15' ... and can I run a hose that far? I thought an NG hose had to be under 24" and that you lost efficiency with distance...

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

I have a flexible 1/2" gas line that is 20 ft. long. Works fine for me, but I think it really depends on the gas pressure at your house.

 

[Dog House Brew]

My friend owns a HVAC company. He said I had to run a 3/4" line to be able to get the rated BTU's out of my burner. You can run the line as far as you can afford it with the correct size hose. Flex gas line is really expensive. Some run rubber hose, but I didn't feel safe with it. Go to a hydralic supply and they can make a hose up with the correct ends on it. I have a 15' gas line and I think I paid about $150 for the hose and 3/4" QD's. They are QD and are also check valves. I installed a ball valve before the hose just for safe measure. If you reduce the size of your hose your burner may not run to the specified BTU.

 

[maztec]

I have a flexible 1/2" gas line that is 20 ft. long. Works fine for me, but I think it really depends on the gas pressure at your house.

THB: Could you link me to an example of the type of line you are using? Everything I am reading is saying I should have a professional install the line, rather than doing so myself. I have a balljoint near the hot water heater it's actually split off from the same line) that I was told was for use with a gas range, but it seems obvious thati t was meant ot connect to a longer line and seems unfinished. Thoughts?

 

[jaginger]

I've got a balljoint exactly like that in the basement, and i am working on ways to get a setup. It's a good ways to run to the outside, so i was thinking of just going iron pipe until I'm outside, then mess with it there -- probably just rubber hose.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

You can also get replacemnet orifices for the standard casting (the one typoical of most inexpensive propane set-ups).

I have 3 and they all work wonderfully on NG.

 

[Bobby_M]

You've got to be careful with those ball joints. They wear out in 150,000 miles or so and your wheel can fold under the car

Ideally you want to limit how much flexible line you run because it's more restrictive to flow than hard pipe. If you can run black pipe along the wall a bit closer to where you want to brew, that's best.

Though I'm not suggesting you copy me, I run some reinforced rubber hose from my hardline to the brewstand. It doesn't have fancy disconnects and it's not labeled "nat gas hose" or anything. Make your own choice. It's important to have a ball valve at the end of the hardline so that you don't leave your flex hose pressurized 24/7 and you need to be able to stop the flow if the hose is cut.

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

Ditto on what Bobby_M said. I don't want you to blow up your garage (or light your face on fire), but heavy duty contractor 1/2" rubber hose is what I've used. It works very well, and is much cheaper than hardline or certified flexible gas line. The tradeoff is that you might blow yourself up. It's kind of exciting on brew day...I never really know if I'll make it out alive.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

My setup consists of the stop valve followed by a restaurant grade quick disconnect with integral shut-off. To this I plug in my 15 foot long, 1/2" ID, braid re-inforced, high pressure LPG umbilical. Short of walking on this hose with cleets or razor blades it should last a lifetime.

 

[bnmir]

Rubber hose is not legal for use indoors, for a reason.
For indoor use on a moveable appliance, you are talking about a flexible gas connector. It's corrugated SS tube tube, covered in steel braid, pvc overcoat. Its limited to 72" by code in the US.
Most restaurant supply places will carry them, but they are not cheap. They usually come as a kit with a shutoff valve and or quick disconnect. Many have swivel fittings as well.

 

[Sawdustguy]

One of the real problems here is that the natural gas burners seem to be way more expensive than the propane burners. On the other hand, I don't have to hassle with buying and refilling propane tanks (yes, to me that is a hassle, as opposed to paying a bill every other month).

Natural gas is much less expensive than propane.

 

[maztec]

Natural gas is much less expensive than propane.

I guess that is the trade off. Cheaper gas, more expensive equipment.

 

[Sawdustguy]

Ditto on what Bobby_M said. I don't want you to blow up your garage (or light your face on fire), but heavy duty contractor 1/2" rubber hose is what I've used. It works very well, and is much cheaper than hardline or certified flexible gas line. The tradeoff is that you might blow yourself up. It's kind of exciting on brew day...I never really know if I'll make it out alive.

LMAO

Little Rascals Mode: On

"I craves excitement Spanky"

Little Rascals Mode: Off

 

[Bobby_M]

Rubber hose is not legal for use indoors, for a reason.
For indoor use on a moveable appliance, you are talking about a flexible gas connector. It's corrugated SS tube tube, covered in steel braid, pvc overcoat. Its limited to 72" by code in the US.
Most restaurant supply places will carry them, but they are not cheap. They usually come as a kit with a shutoff valve and or quick disconnect. Many have swivel fittings as well.

I'm not really going to argue this point. There is no doubt at all that regular rubber hose (two ply stuff) with nylon braided reinforcement is meant for carrying natural gas, especially inside a house. The reason it's not approved is that it could easily be cut thereby filling the house with combustible gas. Of course, this danger is amplified if that hose is pressurized with gas full time. It is further increased as the length increases because there's more "weak" rubber hose exposed to potential harm.

There's a potential rebuttal to all this when one says that they ALWAYS turn off the gas at the hardline when they are done brewing, therefore negating some of the risk. The truth is, "always" is a hindsight condition and becomes "usually" pretty quickly. It's only always until one forgets one time. That one time, per Murphy, is the day someone knocked something sharp and heavy onto your hose and no one noticed. A fire that starts in the garage due to something completely unrelated will also burn through the hose and turn it into a flame thrower.

My rubber hose use in the garage is a calculated risk. As you can see, I understand what CAN happen. I have forgotten to turn the hard valve off after a brew day and I remembered when I was laying in bed that night. I've partially solved that by hanging the ball valve handle on the door leading to the rest of the house so it's the last thing I see before I pack it in for the night.

 

[shoebag22]

I went with a Hurricane and used a 3/8" Charbroil QD hose kit from Lowes which is a lot cheaper than the huge QD hoses. I'm trying to get my hands on a keggle so I can try it out on 10g batches but from what I've seen I'll be ok. Here's a thread I started after receiving it.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/natural-gas-hurricane-pics-158318/

I have the same setup... hurricane burner with charbroil QD hose from lowes.
Last night i tried it out and it worked great. I was able to bring 5 gallons of 50 degree water to a boil in about 35 minutes. I was also able to bring 14 gallons of 160 degree water to a boil in about 40 minutes. I drilled out the standard propane orifice, but I have a hurricane NG orifice on order from williams brewing that I may not need as my current orifice is working just fine!

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

the hose I bought did carry a listing for use indoors in a residence. The Chief plumbing inspector for my jurisdiction required it. IIRC, Tejas smokers also carried a listed rubber hose assembly intended as a gas whip for restaurant use.

 

[zanemoseley]

I have the same setup... hurricane burner with charbroil QD hose from lowes.
Last night i tried it out and it worked great. I was able to bring 5 gallons of 50 degree water to a boil in about 35 minutes. I was also able to bring 14 gallons of 160 degree water to a boil in about 40 minutes. I drilled out the standard propane orifice, but I have a hurricane NG orifice on order from williams brewing that I may not need as my current orifice is working just fine!

Good to hear you're getting good results on 10g batches with the same setup as mine. Your test boil of 5 gallons of 50F water was almost the same time as mine. I don't mind waiting 40 minutes to get my wort boiling, my stove took 30+ minutes doing 5 gallon AG batches even when splitting into 2 pots. I think if I add a wind shield it may help out as well.

 

[WPStrassburg]

If you've already got the propane burner you can just drill the orifice to the NG size in the chart below to get the same BTU's as you are getting with LP now. you will also have to adjust or replace the air shutter to get the right air/fuel mix for a blue flame with just a hint of orange at the tips.

http://www.bacharach-training.com/orifice_chart.htm

you can compensate for a longer hose with more restriction by drilling the orifice larger, but if you are getting too much pressure drop you will have poor flame pattern and it will be a pain to tune.

soap your joints after you're done fitting everything up to check for leaks and rock on.

 

[shoebag22]

Good to hear you're getting good results on 10g batches with the same setup as mine. Your test boil of 5 gallons of 50F water was almost the same time as mine. I don't mind waiting 40 minutes to get my wort boiling, my stove took 30+ minutes doing 5 gallon AG batches even when splitting into 2 pots. I think if I add a wind shield it may help out as well.

It should be even quicker than 40 minutes also. Once the kettle gets 1/3- 1/2 full I turn on the burner, so in theory it should take less time.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

It should be even quicker than 40 minutes also. Once the kettle gets 1/3- 1/2 full I turn on the burner, so in theory it should take less time.

I turn on the flame, low, once the false bottom is covered and kick it up as soon as I reach half volume. By time the kettle is filled the boil is on.

 

[smuth10]

I am planning on buying the Hurricane NG burner and stand from Williams brewing and I have a question regarding the adapter for NG. Do I really need this or is it just as easy to drill out the orifice to NG size(I am reading 1\8")? The adapter on their site looks like a complete shutoff valve, but I do not see this installed anywhere in the pics of people who have this setup. Does anyone with this setup have pics they could post so I can see how this looks when fully setup? Any other details would be much appreciated.

Thanks, Scott...

 

[zanemoseley]

See my link in the first page for some pictures of my burner with the NG valve/orifice. I believe it is just the standard LP on drilled out to 1/8".

I am planning on buying the Hurricane NG burner and stand from Williams brewing and I have a question regarding the adapter for NG. Do I really need this or is it just as easy to drill out the orifice to NG size(I am reading 1\8")? The adapter on their site looks like a complete shutoff valve, but I do not see this installed anywhere in the pics of people who have this setup. Does anyone with this setup have pics they could post so I can see how this looks when fully setup? Any other details would be much appreciated.

Thanks, Scott...

 

[smuth10]

I saw that, but I guess I just didn't look close enough. So the adapter is installed in the end of the burner and then you just installed the hose with QD to the adapter. It is just a lot smaller than it looks in the pic on the WB site. Can you use that shutoff valve on the adapter to adjust the flame or do you use your main ball valve? (Nevermind!)

Also, I noticed the adapter is only 3\8". I wanted to go with 1\2" on everything. Would I have to buy some sort of adapter for that as well?

Thanks again, Scott...

 

[zanemoseley]

The valve has a nipple that screws into the body of the burner. The mini ball valve is pretty handy for adjusting flame height although I use mine full blast pretty much all the time. The charbroil hose I bought screwed right into the valve body but if you wanted a larger hose you would just need a reducer.