Building new home, need help prepping for electric brewing

[Marc77]

I need some advice from the experienced people here. I'm guessing there's a thread for this on here but I've got a three year old laying across me trying to block me from seeing the computer, a one year old refusing to take a nap and a wife that's telling me to get ready to leave the house.

The foundation is already poured but none of the framing has started. So I know I can't put a drain in which...bummer. But I'd like to wire the basement for electric brewing. One of the breaker boxes is in the basement where I'll be brewing so running the 10/3 wire to a spot and putting in a dryer outlet won't be a problem. Would that be the best idea or would a spa panel be best? I'm still learning about electric brewing but need to learn faster then I have time so the construction doesn't get past where I can make changes.

 

[mj1angier]

Well, don't rule out a drain yet...well maybe a floor drain, but you may be able to tie into one of the down stacks. Ok, I may be assuming that the drain are going from ground floor to basement to sewer...

I knew I would be brewing when we built our house, but thought I would be using propane. But I am am also a handy type and have a welder, so I had them put in a 100 amp sub box in my basement shop. Off of that is a 50 amp 240 plug for my welder. I had to match up the plug (3 prong) but it was a snap to go to all electric. Now if you don't weld, have them do the 4 prong plug. But also have a 20 amp 115 plug added close by for pumps, computers, radio, tv....

 

[doug293cz]

Since you're building new, I'd recommend putting a 4-wire, 50A, GFCI protected circuit just for brewing. If you know where the brewing location will be, have them run the 50A circuit to that spot, and install a 4-prong outlet. You could go with just a 30A circuit, but that could be limiting in the future. The extra cost for the 50A circuit will just be rounding error in the total construction cost, and you can always run a 30A panel from the 50A outlet.

Brew on

 

[AkTom]

You can always get a Liberty 404 pump, or something similar. Don't forget a mop and bucket.

 

[bovine_OB]

Are you trying to decide between a spa panel and mounting a dryer outlet, or are you deciding between a spa panel and a GFCI breaker in the box downstairs? Certainly you need some sort of current protection when liquid and electricity are involved - thus the choice should be between the GFCI breaker and the spa panel. Each has its own pro's and con's.

GFCI breaker in panel -
pro's: neater, less exposed equipment
con's :roughly 2x as expensive depending on several factors, also it becomes a semi-permanent addition to your brewing location/house.

Spa panel -
pro's - portable (as in if you move again, you can lug this along with your brew gear), and most important to most folks - they are generally cheaper
con's - it becomes an extra box to be mounted

It all depends on the aesthetics of your brewing area and what kind of budget you are working with. Honestly, if I were to build a new house with a dedicated brew area, I'd just spend the money on a GFCI breaker in the panel, but as for my current setup I'm going with the spa panel so I can take my brew gear with me when we do eventually build our dream home.

 

[lschiavo]

Rough in:

Water - convenient hlt fill, sink.
Drain - too late? Floor drain would have been awesome. Don't forget a sink.
Power - 50A imo
Ventilation - can be done after the fact but why?
Bling - not for me but now's your chance.

If I were starting from scratch, no way I'd bother with 30A.

 

[SanPancho]

Foundation, framing, then rough plumbing. So while You cant get a drain under the slab you can still talk with plumber. They can tell you where they plan to run their vertical drops and then you can locate your brew area close to one of their runs. Get a restaurant prep table with sink and drainboard and you are all set. Then you can tell the electrician about where you want your panel.

 

[SDBob]

+1 for the 100 amp panel. 50 amps is so borderline it's not worth it. 32 years in the trade.

 

[SDBob]

Here's the math. Two 5500 watt elements, one in your HLT and one in your boil kettle, will draw 45.83 amps. That's a 60 amp circuit right there. Don't think for a minute there won't be times you'll want the ability to run them both at the same time. And a 100 amp sub will cost more than a 50, but not close to twice as much. It's a new house....

 

[Marc77]

I appreciate all the input! The basement won’t be finished so for right now it seems that outside of an in ground drain I’m not out too much and can research the rest.

I do like the idea of using 100 amp panels instead of 50 which I’ll have to see where that lands. Either way they can add them if they don’t already use 100’s. It’s just the pissing and moaning at this point. But like several have said, it’s a new house and the cost will be a drop in the bucket.

 

[Mike_kever_kombi]

If you plan on using a 100 amp sub panel, you will need to make sure that you have 200 amp service line coming in to the house. Running 2 elements, pumps, computer/TV, Lights, exhaust fans, and everything else in your brew room will be pushing 60 total amps. If you only have 100 amp service coming in to the house, this will only leave you with 40 amps total for the rest of the house.

While a floor drain would be nice, it is not too late to add a wye to a sanitary stack. Make sure the Plumber sets it up for 2” pipe, not 1 1/2”, this way you can use 2 sinks (if needed).

Also have your HVAC contractor run a 6” exhaust duct to the area you plan on brewing at (near your newly roughed in drain).

You don’t necessarily need to finish everything out right now, but at least get everything thought out, and roughed in now. It will add minimal cost now, but save many headaches down the road.

 

[doug293cz]

You shouldn't really need to put in a sub-panel, if your main panel has room for a 240V/50A and 2 x 120V/20A breakers for your brewery circuits.

Brew on

 

[SDBob]

Lot's of benefits to having a sub-panel in the basement. So many in fact, I'd advise putting one there even if you weren't going to brew. Also lot's of benefits to having a floor drain (or drains) in an un-finished basement, again, whether you brew or not. Very easy to pipe floor drains to a sump, where a plug in sump pump with a float pumps it either outside or to the sewer if it's legal. This kind of infrastructure costs pennies on the dollar when building a new house vs. adding later. Just my opinion.

 

[SDBob]

I'm also thinking how difficult it would be to brew if the nearest sink is upstairs...

 

[doug293cz]

Lot's of benefits to having a sub-panel in the basement. So many in fact, I'd advise putting one there even if you weren't going to brew. ...

Can you elaborate please? In my previous home (the one that had a basement), the main panel was in the basement. What would be the benefits of having a sub-panel in the basement in that situation? If the main panel was in the garage on the main level, then I could see some benefits to a sub-panel in the basement.

Brew on

 

[Dcpcooks]

You can still add a floor drain! Install an ejector pump and a pit.

I installed 2 240v 30 amp gfci breakers and 2 120 v 20 amp lines. Super flexible for any set up.

I highly suggest you install an 8” exhaust line and an 8” make up air line before you drywall. Way easier to install that before construction is completed.

Brewing inside on electric is the way to go. Especially in the winter in the northern states[emoji300]️[emoji300]️[emoji300]️[emoji300]️

 

[itsnotrequired]

Can you elaborate please? In my previous home (the one that had a basement), the main panel was in the basement. What would be the benefits of having a sub-panel in the basement in that situation? If the main panel was in the garage on the main level, then I could see some benefits to a sub-panel in the basement.

Brew on

and that's the problem with some of these threads, assumptions are made on how the electrical system will be installed without knowing where panels are located, what size the service is, etc.

but you are correct, if the main panel is already in the basement, no real need for an additional subpanel down there.

 

[SDBob]

and that's the problem with some of these threads, assumptions are made on how the electrical system will be installed without knowing where panels are located, what size the service is, etc.

but you are correct, if the main panel is already in the basement, no real need for an additional subpanel down there.

No question. Let me clarify why I advise a panel vs individual circuits. FLEXIBILITY. Future expansion, changes, ect. If your main panel is already in your basement there's obviously no need unless you run out of breaker space. If it's not, with a 100-amp circuit and a $50.00 panel you get flexibility downstream. You might want to weld down there someday, or add a burner element, who knows, who cares.

Talk to your electrician. Tell him/her what you want. You're doing the right thing here... casting a net to collect opinions and ideas before your design is literally cast in stone.

 

[SDBob]

The foundation is already poured but none of the framing has started. So I know I can't put a drain in which...bummer.

You sure can. If you have a utility area where you can cut in a pit for a sump pump, some place you wouldn't mind an 18" x 18" metal grate on the floor. It's late but not too late. At least your discharge and electric for the pump can get inside a wall. Talk to your contractor. My gosh, you're going to wish you did when you start running the stairs every time you need a sink.

 

[itsnotrequired]

No question. Let me clarify why I advise a panel vs individual circuits. FLEXIBILITY. Future expansion, changes, ect. If your main panel is already in your basement there's obviously no need unless you run out of breaker space. If it's not, with a 100-amp circuit and a $50.00 panel you get flexibility downstream. You might want to weld down there someday, or add a burner element, who knows, who cares.

Talk to your electrician. Tell him/her what you want. You're doing the right thing here... casting a net to collect opinions and ideas before your design is literally cast in stone.

i'm not the original owner of my home but when we moved in, there was a grand total of two spare positions in the main panel (no sub). it is in the basement and first major project was to finish it off. i debated swapping out some of the single pole breakers for tandems but decided a sub was much better (less rework of existing, ability to work in a completely dead panel, etc.) sub is physically adjacent to the main. it is a 100 amp panel with 16 spaces. at the time, i had no real plans for expansion but since the run was so short, i used a 100 amp breaker and #3 awg thhn conductors. seemed like overkill at the time but a cheap install.

fast-forward two years and i decide to build an electric sauna, very convenient to serve out of that sub. fast-forward another two years and i add an electric brewery, again using that sub. counting other miscellaneous circuits and now that sub is the panel with only two spare positions!

 

[SDBob]

i'm not the original owner of my home but when we moved in, there was a grand total of two spare positions in the main panel (no sub). it is in the basement and first major project was to finish it off. i debated swapping out some of the single pole breakers for tandems but decided a sub was much better (less rework of existing, ability to work in a completely dead panel, etc.) sub is physically adjacent to the main. it is a 100 amp panel with 16 spaces. at the time, i had no real plans for expansion but since the run was so short, i used a 100 amp breaker and #3 awg thhn conductors. seemed like overkill at the time but a cheap install.

fast-forward two years and i decide to build an electric sauna, very convenient to serve out of that sub. fast-forward another two years and i add an electric brewery, again using that sub. counting other miscellaneous circuits and now that sub is the panel with only two spare positions!

THIS.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I need some advice from the experienced people here. I'm guessing there's a thread for this on here but I've got a three year old laying across me trying to block me from seeing the computer, a one year old refusing to take a nap and a wife that's telling me to get ready to leave the house.

The foundation is already poured but none of the framing has started. So I know I can't put a drain in which...bummer. But I'd like to wire the basement for electric brewing. One of the breaker boxes is in the basement where I'll be brewing so running the 10/3 wire to a spot and putting in a dryer outlet won't be a problem. Would that be the best idea or would a spa panel be best? I'm still learning about electric brewing but need to learn faster then I have time so the construction doesn't get past where I can make changes.

If you have the cash, talk to your electrician about running 400 amp service - as in two separate 200 amp panels. That amount of power is beyond overkill, but somebody once said that about 100 amp service. If you are starting from square one, it makes sense to future-proof. In the next two or three decades, electric cars are going to become a lot more common, so having the capability to run 50a or even 100a chargers are going to exist (Tesla's Twin Charger runs 80a!). Your electricial is probably going to look at you like you are nuts, but nobody has ever complained about too many breaker slots and too much amperage supply.

 

[itsnotrequired]

If you have the cash, talk to your electrician about running 400 amp service - as in two separate 200 amp panels. That amount of power is beyond overkill, but somebody once said that about 100 amp service. If you are starting from square one, it makes sense to future-proof. In the next two or three decades, electric cars are going to become a lot more common, so having the capability to run 50a or even 100a chargers are going to exist (Tesla's Twin Charger runs 80a!). Your electricial is probably going to look at you like you are nuts, but nobody has ever complained about too many breaker slots and too much amperage supply.

the utility company may have a say in service size. you may be able to install 400 amp equipment in the home but they may only bring 200 amp worth of conductor to your home. or make you pay a premium for an 'oversized' service. the nec is pretty explicit about how to size a service. we don't even know the size of the op's home. typically, 400 amp services only apply to unusual situations or massive homes (e.g. 8000 sf and up).

not saying not to look into going to 400 amp, just a heads up there may be issues...

 

[mj1angier]

If you have the cash, talk to your electrician about running 400 amp service - as in two separate 200 amp panels. That amount of power is beyond overkill, but somebody once said that about 100 amp service. If you are starting from square one, it makes sense to future-proof. In the next two or three decades, electric cars are going to become a lot more common, so having the capability to run 50a or even 100a chargers are going to exist (Tesla's Twin Charger runs 80a!). Your electricial is probably going to look at you like you are nuts, but nobody has ever complained about too many breaker slots and too much amperage supply.

This is what I have.
400 amp service in 2- 200 amp panels. One upstairs and one downstairs. Then a 100 amp sub-panel in my work shop/ brew room

 

[SanPancho]

while a flood drain would be nice, it could be a bit of a mess to break up that slab. we're on a 15" matt slab with two layers of steel. you couldnt pay me to try and break that up.

but if your slab isnt "structural" and you can cut into it, then yeah, go for it. drop a sump, wire a pump, and enjoy. you can even build up some floor tile to slope down towards the sump if you're really messy about brewing.

but if you cant, then its really not a big deal to just do your brewing on a nice commercial table. it'll have a lip around all sides, so as to contain spills and run them down to the sink, and then right into your drain line. no biggie. not sure about where you are at but you can get them new for less than a grand, or used for half that or less. lots of out-of-the-way storage underneath the table, etc.

but yes, floor drain/sump would be great if your building codes will allow it without too much trouble.

 

[lschiavo]

If you have the cash, talk to your electrician about running 400 amp service - as in two separate 200 amp panels. That amount of power is beyond overkill, but somebody once said that about 100 amp service. If you are starting from square one, it makes sense to future-proof. In the next two or three decades, electric cars are going to become a lot more common, so having the capability to run 50a or even 100a chargers are going to exist (Tesla's Twin Charger runs 80a!). Your electricial is probably going to look at you like you are nuts, but nobody has ever complained about too many breaker slots and too much amperage supply.

We are wiring a rather large house (11,000 sq-ft). We used a 320A meter pedestal (rated 400A peak) with (2) 200A main breakers to feed two separate 40-circuit 200A panels. Also needed (3) 30-circuit subpanels spread around the house. The pedestal is nice and is still considered a residential installation around here. I would consider that a lot of overkill on a smaller house though unless you have some serious electrical plans.

 

[BrewingChemist]

This may be unpopular opinion, but I'd also add at least a half bath down there.

 

[Marc77]

This may be unpopular opinion, but I'd also add at least a half bath down there.

There will actually be a full bath down there. I've told SWMBO that I refuse to go up two floors to a bathroom any more (side to side split). So the bathroom will be one of the first additions to the new house.

Also, I actually got out and walked the lot to see the foundation and saw that the foundation and footings have been poured but the basement slab hasn't been poured. So I'm going to be asking for a drain to be placed where I'll be brewing. Also to have water installed there for a sink as well as an exhaust outlet to be put there.

The only thing I'm concerned about conveying is the size of the exhaust outlet. If I tell them a six inch exhaust hole for brewing I'm sure they'll have no idea what actually needs to be done...and to be fair, being so new to electric brewing, neither do I.

 

[SDBob]

I can't help but wonder how deep your sewer lateral must be to enable a basement bathroom. Septic maybe? 12' deep? Forgive me, I'm in California, I don't know of one house in my county with a basement. I lived in Cleveland 40 years ago and every house had a basement. Go figure... maybe leveraging square footage isn't a thing in CA, land is so cheap, right....?

{Edit: Just Googled it. Apparently a basement is almost a necessity in certain climates to get the foundation below the frost line. Learn something new everyday!}

 

[steveoatley]

for EASE.... have your brewery & bathroom - right next to each other

So they share the same water supply & drain

I did the same thing about 5 yrs ago

S

my basement brew room is my Avatar pic
2 vessel EHerms