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Yes... I promise you an update is coming!
BruControl: Brewery control & automation software
- Thread starter BrunDog
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Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
FYI:
This is not an issue but I thought some might like to know:
I was playing and trying to put decimal values and could not.
A Value Precision attribute effects the value.
If you set the Precision attribute to 0, the value will only be integers.
If you try to place a decimal value into that Element, it will round the value to nearest integer.
You cannot manually enter a decimal value.
You should be aware of this when doing math.
This is not an issue but I thought some might like to know:
I was playing and trying to put decimal values and could not.
A Value Precision attribute effects the value.
If you set the Precision attribute to 0, the value will only be integers.
If you try to place a decimal value into that Element, it will round the value to nearest integer.
You cannot manually enter a decimal value.
You should be aware of this when doing math.
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Sorry, not following you. Can you share an example?
//Global 1 is a Value with precision set to 0
//Global 1 will only accept Integers
//Global 2 is a Value with precision set to 3
//Global 3 is a Value with precision set to 3
//Global 4 is a Value with precision set to 3
"Global 2" value = 1.202
"Global 3" value = 1.299
"Global 1" value = "Global 2" value + "Global 3" value
"Global 4" value = "Global 1" value
The value of "Global 1" is now 3, not 2.501
The value of "Global 4" is 3.000, so precision does effect the value
Not really anything wrong, I was just trying to put a decimal in Global 1 and could not.
//Global 1 will only accept Integers
//Global 2 is a Value with precision set to 3
//Global 3 is a Value with precision set to 3
//Global 4 is a Value with precision set to 3
"Global 2" value = 1.202
"Global 3" value = 1.299
"Global 1" value = "Global 2" value + "Global 3" value
"Global 4" value = "Global 1" value
The value of "Global 1" is now 3, not 2.501
The value of "Global 4" is 3.000, so precision does effect the value
Not really anything wrong, I was just trying to put a decimal in Global 1 and could not.
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Yeah, this is actually correct operation. By you declaring Global 1 as 0 precision, you are essentially calling it an integer, so it can only handle integer operations later.
Precision determines the decimal level, decimal places determines what you see.
Precision determines the decimal level, decimal places determines what you see.
Oddly enough, years ago when I was writing some software, the Microsoft Currency Type was a decimal fixed at 3, not 2. This cause no end of trouble because that 3rd unseen digit in a Currency field could add pennies to a transaction. It some transactions you wanted that 3rd digit, but when dealing with Cash, you did not. When you calculated Sales Tax, it always added that 3rd unseen digit and your sum always had pennies errors if you used the currency type field.
Is there a way to find out what Workspace an Element is on? I I have an unused Element that I created but moved and would like to find it to delete it. cannot find it. I likely hid it but it may be under some other element so I can not see it with the all seeing eye. If I knew which Workspace to look on, I would likely find it.
What I have done in the past is to look in the Brucontrol backup files and view as a text file and use the "Edit" then "Find" enter the name of the element and it will show all appearances of it. Of course you need the exact name of the element for this to work.
I actually did that (and I do know the name to look for). I found where the Element is, but could not see where the Workspace attribute was.
I use very specific names for my Elements that tell me what port they are on so just have to look for that port part of the name.
My Port 30 on my Valve Grand Central interface will have VGC_30 as part of the name.
I made an Error when I stop using an Element. I now move them to a Workspace for unused Elements and give a suffix of _EX to the name. I normally delete them fairly soon, but I did that one before I got my process down.
I will look again and see if anything looks like Workspace.
I use very specific names for my Elements that tell me what port they are on so just have to look for that port part of the name.
My Port 30 on my Valve Grand Central interface will have VGC_30 as part of the name.
I made an Error when I stop using an Element. I now move them to a Workspace for unused Elements and give a suffix of _EX to the name. I normally delete them fairly soon, but I did that one before I got my process down.
I will look again and see if anything looks like Workspace.
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Search "workspace" the Name of the workspace is listed above and the elements are listed under it
I found it more by happen stance. It looks like all Elements are listed under a separate <workspace> and </workspace> tag for each workspace and all Elements on that workspace are listed between the tags. I am not positive about this but at least I found the ones I needed to delete.
In my naming convention, I do put a suffix on the name where I put my Elements (now).
For example my Port 34 on my Grand Central Unishield is named
VGC_34_do_BrewKettleIsolationValve_B1
If I need a label on the screen, I would use the Display name of something like " Brew Kettle Isolation Valve". In this case, I only use two separate Background Images that have a Valve Open or closed depending on the state.
The name tells me it is on my Grand Central Interface on Port 34. It is a Digital Output and is my Brew Kettle Isolation valve and it resides on my Brewery 1st Batch Workspace.
Using this naming convention allow ,me to know a lot about the Element and guarantees that it is unique. I ran into issues with script errors some time ago when I had a Digital Out named "Yellow Pump" and tried to put "Yellow Pump" as a value in a String Global. The Script threw an error it took me a while to figure out why. It was trying to put the Element "Yellow Pump" into the string field of the Global. Since it was not a string, it threw the error. Thanks for the help as by looking for "workspace" I figured it out.
In my naming convention, I do put a suffix on the name where I put my Elements (now).
For example my Port 34 on my Grand Central Unishield is named
VGC_34_do_BrewKettleIsolationValve_B1
If I need a label on the screen, I would use the Display name of something like " Brew Kettle Isolation Valve". In this case, I only use two separate Background Images that have a Valve Open or closed depending on the state.
The name tells me it is on my Grand Central Interface on Port 34. It is a Digital Output and is my Brew Kettle Isolation valve and it resides on my Brewery 1st Batch Workspace.
Using this naming convention allow ,me to know a lot about the Element and guarantees that it is unique. I ran into issues with script errors some time ago when I had a Digital Out named "Yellow Pump" and tried to put "Yellow Pump" as a value in a String Global. The Script threw an error it took me a while to figure out why. It was trying to put the Element "Yellow Pump" into the string field of the Global. Since it was not a string, it threw the error. Thanks for the help as by looking for "workspace" I figured it out.
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FYI it seems our website is down right now… don’t know why other than GoDaddy is a horrible service provider (down for hours and no notice).
...And we're back. Almost a day! Avoid them as an ISP if you can!
...And we're back. Almost a day! Avoid them as an ISP if you can!
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I was doing some work to update my Brucontrol setup including upgrading to FW46. While I was doing it, I came across a profile element and was curious what it is. I looked in the manual and it says as above "Not completed yet" and searched this thread and this is the last update I see. Any more info?
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It will be an element which will follow an output profile automatically (rather than scripting it). Think mash profile, fermentation schedule, etc.
I am just about to wire my TF-4. I have a metal box that will be about 4 feet from my Mega. I plan to run twisted pair cat 5 cable to the box which has M12 panel mount female connectors. The TF-4 will reside in that metal box. Should I just run one 4 pair (one cable) or 8 pair (2 cables) and ground one wire of each twisted pair?
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When you say you plan to run twisted pair cable to the box, do you mean from the box to the MEGA or from the sensors to the TF-4? I don't think you need any shielding from the TF-4 to the MEGA, but twisted pair won't hurt - one side of the twist should be ground.
Is a separate Box. Only about 4 feet total wire length from Mega to TF-4. I was thinking of the shield because of the Separate Box
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Not sure I'm understanding this. Themistor sensors get wired to the TF-4 (2 wires) and the TF-4 gets wired to the MEGA (Vcc, GND, and 1 line per sensor). Two different runs of wires.
A few weeks later… thanks for this info @oakbarn!! I am away from anything relating to my brewery for the next couple months, but I’ll sure give this a try and will report back to you.
Pete - any chance to add this config recovery info as an appendix on the Brucontrol website? It might make it easier to search (versus sifting through this forum).
I was talking about the leads from the Analog ports to the TF-4. The Leads to the Probes will be M12 QDs. My Thermowells are all the open ended kind where I can slip a probe into (I have found that it is not necessary to have heat transfer paste if you leave the probes in the thermowell as they quickly heat up a stabilize with out it; I can replace a probe quickly if needed). Since this is a separate enclosure with the TF-4 and the Power and Analog Leads back to the Mega (4 ' 6" total wire length of Cat 5 Shielded Cable x 2, I believe they should be shielded. I know that the closer the TF-4 is to the Mega the better, but I did not buy a big enough enclosure when I started.
I am going to wire with the white wires of the twisted pair connect to the common ground of the Mega. I am also going to connect the shield to the common ground,
In the TF-4 Enclosure, I may or may not connect the Grounds to the enclosure. I remember creating a ground loop before so I will play with grounding the TF-4 Enclosure and try with and without grounding the enclosure. I may also not ground in the Mega except for the GND on the TF-4.
I guess this a little out of the BruControl, but more of a general Electronic wiring question. I am new to the Arduino World and Electronic Control wiring in General.
BruControl has two major learning curves to me.
1> Scripts
2> Electronics (Arduino, ADC, SSRs, Wiring, Grounding, Measuring etc.)
I am somewhat familiar with scripting because I know some Visual Basic and Java Script.
I am uneducated in Electronics. Most of what I do in that empire is ask, and then try to see the results.
I corrected my diagram below after I started wiring it. I realized I had the wires drawn wrong colors and some of the ports wrong.
Update: I used the following wiring and it seems fine. I did not use any extra grounds other than the one one the power block of the TF-4.
So I answered my own question. I was really looking for best practices for and additional enclosure.
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Success: My Temp Probes are working with the TF-4 with the wires between the Mega 2560 and the TF-4 roughly 4' 8". I used Cat 5 Shielded wire and did not ground the shield on either end. The only ground was between the Mega and the GND on the TF-4 next to the VCC (5v from the Mega).
This is NOT a Recommendation but I had not purchased a big enough enclosure to house the Interfaces and the TF-4 so I needed to mount it in a different enclosure. That enclosure is metal and has M12 PANEL MOUNT QDs for the temp probes (M12 Quick Disconnect Panel Mount - Male from Brewers Hardware).
This is NOT a Recommendation but I had not purchased a big enough enclosure to house the Interfaces and the TF-4 so I needed to mount it in a different enclosure. That enclosure is metal and has M12 PANEL MOUNT QDs for the temp probes (M12 Quick Disconnect Panel Mount - Male from Brewers Hardware).
Trying to calibrate the !0K NTC probes using a lookup table.
I have read the manual but is hard t0 understand the relationship of X and Y and how it works. I needed a practical example.
This is one:
Using an Ice Bath to get to 32 F. (Checked with an NIST Thermapen)
I have a displayed temp of 36.2 and want to correct it to 32.0 . X would be the displayed Temperature ( 36.2) and Y would be the Corrected Temperature (32.0)
I have read the manual but is hard t0 understand the relationship of X and Y and how it works. I needed a practical example.
This is one:
Using an Ice Bath to get to 32 F. (Checked with an NIST Thermapen)
I have a displayed temp of 36.2 and want to correct it to 32.0 . X would be the displayed Temperature ( 36.2) and Y would be the Corrected Temperature (32.0)
I found using "Lookup" tables for NTC Probe calibration iffy at best. Too wide of a calibration range the probe will be exposed to the less accurate readings you will get. Example: Boil kettle starting point after mash out 165F and taking it to a boil 210-212 depending on elevation you would not want to include temps in your Lookup tables of much less than 155-160, otherwise you will be trying to straighten out the curve at the lower temps which pulls away from the accuracy of a specific range you might be trying to monitor. These probes are none linear and can, depending on type of thermistor used, give less accurate readings at the top end of the scale as well so including to many skewed values from the high temp level can impact accuracy.
In other words calibrate in a specific range for that particular probe would be my advice. The more entry values within a specified range the more accurate the temp value will be within that specific range.
In other words calibrate in a specific range for that particular probe would be my advice. The more entry values within a specified range the more accurate the temp value will be within that specific range.
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I put in 6 different pairs.
I started at 32.0 F (ICE WATER BATH and a Certified NIST thermometer)
I set them up:
32 (ICE WATER BATH and a Certified NIST thermometer)
59.3 (My tap water today)
148 (Certified NIST thermometer)
163 (Certified NIST thermometer)
177 (Certified NIST thermometer)
211.1 (Boiling Water) (an Calculated Boil Plus the Certified NIST thermometer)
I have a heated Stir Plate and used it to heat the sample water, stirring with the probes in the sample.
I let the sample cool and compared the BruControi Temperatures to the Certified NIST thermometer Compared several times (and continuing as it cools. the sample was down to 109.8 when I started this and is now 104.6 and Bru Control within .2 of that) They were always less than .2 F for a huge range, so for me, it seems to be working fine.
A general Question for the AA-2 Analog Amplifier.
The Input voltage may be from 5 to 24 vdc.
1. Is it Best Practice to have an Independent Separate Power Supply or can you use the same Power Supply as the Interface?
a. if using Independent Separate Power Supply should you connect the Grounds to the interface ground?
2. If using a 0-10 vdc Proportional Controller, should the Input Voltage be at least 10 vdc?
3. If using a 0-5 vdc Proportional Controller, can you use the 5 vdc Output of the Interface to power the AA-2?
a. If using a 0-10 vdc Proportional Controller, what about the 5 vdc Output of the Interface (may be mute question depending on 2 above.)
The Input voltage may be from 5 to 24 vdc.
1. Is it Best Practice to have an Independent Separate Power Supply or can you use the same Power Supply as the Interface?
a. if using Independent Separate Power Supply should you connect the Grounds to the interface ground?
2. If using a 0-10 vdc Proportional Controller, should the Input Voltage be at least 10 vdc?
3. If using a 0-5 vdc Proportional Controller, can you use the 5 vdc Output of the Interface to power the AA-2?
a. If using a 0-10 vdc Proportional Controller, what about the 5 vdc Output of the Interface (may be mute question depending on 2 above.)
Also with the AA-2, we are planning to control your Quadzilla via a Crydom Proportional Controller 0-10 vdc via a PID Element. This will be Port 7 on our Mega Unishield.
The instructions say:
a. Each PWM/Analog Out pin connected via I1 … I4 is associated with a PWM/Analog Output Device Element port in BruControl. That output must be enabled and set to maximum voltage/value (e.g. BruControl PWM/Analog Output Device Element enabled with uncalibrated output value = 255).
To set up the AA-2:
Do I need to create a PWM Element on Port 7 and set its value to 255 or can you set the 255 on a PID Element.
The instructions say:
a. Each PWM/Analog Out pin connected via I1 … I4 is associated with a PWM/Analog Output Device Element port in BruControl. That output must be enabled and set to maximum voltage/value (e.g. BruControl PWM/Analog Output Device Element enabled with uncalibrated output value = 255).
To set up the AA-2:
Do I need to create a PWM Element on Port 7 and set its value to 255 or can you set the 255 on a PID Element.
Can you use an ISpindel and a Tilt on the same ESP -32?
Having an email exchange @BrunDog with a different issue, these answers became apparent.
1. Is it Best Practice to have an Independent Separate Power Supply or can you use the same Power Supply as the Interface?
a. if using Independent Separate Power Supply should you connect the Grounds to the interface ground?
You may use and independent Power supply but it is not necessary. The grounds must be common between the Power Supplies, the Mega and the AA-2.
2. If using a 0-10 vdc Proportional Controller, should the Input Voltage be at least 10 vdc?
You may use any Power Supply between 5 and 24 vdc. This is not an Input voltage but the AA-2 operating Voltage (V+ and GND at the top of the board. The maximum input signal (I1-I4) from the interface will be the interface voltage. That is 5.0 vdc from a Mega or 3.3 vdc from a Grand Central or ESP-32 and so on. The V+ at the top of theAA-2 is operating voltage for the AA-2. Operating voltage (V+) and does not effect the input signal. The The grounds must be common between the Power Supplies, the Mega and the AA-2.
3. If using a 0-5 vdc Proportional Controller, can you use the 5 vdc Output of the Interface to power the AA-2?
You could use that voltage from a Mega Interface but remember that that power has limitations. An different Power Supply with a common ground that is between 5 and 24 vdc can power the AA-2. @BrunDog may have further advice here as I am guessing.
a. If using a 0-10 vdc Proportional Controller, what about the 5 vdc Output of the Interface (may be mute question depending on 2 above.)
This was answered above and is mute.
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I am having some issues with alarm timers and am wondering if this is a bug, or as intended.
If you have a timer with an alarm set at 0, the timer will count down and when it crosses 0, it will set the alarm. My issue is how to reset the timer and alarm without it retriggering the alarm. If you set the time to 5 secs, turn off the alarm and start the timer, it will retrigger the alarm before it crosses 0. Presumably because it has crossed from -1 to 5 when you set the time. This is also the case if you reset the timer (with a reset value of 5 secs). I have separate scripts for each brew step. At the end of each script, the timer has expired and the alarm is set (this is how I determine the end of the step). I then turn off the alarm. At the beginning of a script, I reset the timer. When I start the timer, the alarm is retriggered after about a second, not when it crosses 0. Example:
at end of script:
Timer value is at -00:00:00:01
Alarm is active
"StepComplete" active = false //reset alarm
at start of script:
restart "StepTimer" //reset value in timer is 00:00:00:05
sleep 2000
"StepComplete" active = false
without the sleep step and turning off the alarm again, the alarm is retriggered after ~1sec causing my step to end immediately.
Is this the behavior you expect?
If you have a timer with an alarm set at 0, the timer will count down and when it crosses 0, it will set the alarm. My issue is how to reset the timer and alarm without it retriggering the alarm. If you set the time to 5 secs, turn off the alarm and start the timer, it will retrigger the alarm before it crosses 0. Presumably because it has crossed from -1 to 5 when you set the time. This is also the case if you reset the timer (with a reset value of 5 secs). I have separate scripts for each brew step. At the end of each script, the timer has expired and the alarm is set (this is how I determine the end of the step). I then turn off the alarm. At the beginning of a script, I reset the timer. When I start the timer, the alarm is retriggered after about a second, not when it crosses 0. Example:
at end of script:
Timer value is at -00:00:00:01
Alarm is active
"StepComplete" active = false //reset alarm
at start of script:
restart "StepTimer" //reset value in timer is 00:00:00:05
sleep 2000
"StepComplete" active = false
without the sleep step and turning off the alarm again, the alarm is retriggered after ~1sec causing my step to end immediately.
Is this the behavior you expect?
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What is the best way to archive or delete the data in the database to reduce the file size?
Having an email exchange @BrunDog with a different issue, these answers became apparent.
Do I need to create a PWM Element on Port 7 and set its value to 255 or can you set the 255 on a PID Element?
That is one way to do it.
@BrunDog suggested I use the 5v Out of the Mega Unishield. In my mind, that is a great way to set up the AA-2 because the maximum voltage for the input is that 5v out voltage. If you set a PWM Element to 255, it should supply that same voltage. You cannot set the Output of a PID Element.
When the new version of BruControl comes out that allows you to choose what and how often to get data, that will be the answer to such a huge database. I cannot use the database function because it gets to GBs in a day. When it is large, it takes up to 10 minutes for the exe to Load. I have removed the SQL and have no database. If you do not use the data, you might want to get rid of the SQL stuff if you do not use them for other things and have no database. You can also delete the database daily using Windows.
Hard to determine without the full scripts. but you can try this:
FYI: I do not use the Alarm function of a timer but use scripting for the same, but I think the following will work using that attribute:
// at start of script:
"StepComplete" active = false //reset alarm
reset "StepTimer" //reset value in timer is 00:00:00:05
start "StepTimer"
You could also try just changing the order only:
// at start of script:
"StepComplete" active = false //reset alarm
restart "StepTimer" //reset value in timer is 00:00:00:05
I use a Global Value Integer to control my flow of my process. I do have some Alarms that when manually activity made false will advance to the next step. If I can make the next step automatic, I might have that tickle Alarm to let me know that the next step has started.
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Picked up a ESP8285-based 'PSF-B04' module 4-relay board from amazon for $18.99, just using it with e-WeLink for now, but it seems really nice as it works off of USB power or 7-32V AC/DC. I will poke around for ability to use other GPIO and load BC firmware but mainly bought it to give IoT control to a 3-button garage door operator. iTead application guide for PSF-B04
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Just need to make sure you have enough entries in the table, especially the book-ends. I'd go every 5 or 10 degrees.
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You can use a PWM Output Device Element, which will create a "manual" fixed output that will only change by the operator or a script. You set this one. Or you can create a PID Output Device Element with the Use PWM switch enabled, which will create an analog PWM output which automatically changes in accordance with the PID's calculation. You don't set this output, it is automatically calculated.
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Yes. I'm not fully understanding your question though. Resetting a timer will not cancel an alarm it triggered.
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No, I only suggested you use the 5V Out temporarily to test the AA-2. Feeding a fixed 5V input is simulating a 100% PWM output from a MEGA. We do this only to test the output of the AA-2 and set its output range. The AA-2's input power (V+) voltage should be 5-24 DC (but not less than the output voltage you expect, meaning 5V power will not allow a 0-10V output range). the AA-2 channel input signals must not exceed 5V (they would be 5V for a MEGA and 3.3V for ESP32, Grand Central, etc).
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My script resets the alarm. When it is restarted, it retriggers before it hits the trigger point. I have to put in a delay in between restarting the timer and resetting the alarm. My question is, how do you restart the timer without it retriggering the alarm? I can write a script to show this if it helps, but it is pretty easy to see if you play with it a bit. You actually don't need a script, just a timer and an alarm to see the behavior.
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My script resets the alarm. When it is restarted, it retriggers before it hits the trigger point. I have to put in a delay in between estarting the timer and resetting the alarm. My question is, how do you restart the timer without it retriggering the alarm? I can write a script to show this if it helps, but it is pretty easy to see if you play with it a bit. You actually don't need a script, just a timer and an alarm to see the behavior.
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