BruControl: Brewery control & automation software

[oakbarn]

Besides the Robodyn Mega, is there a Mega Board, Ethernet shield, and screw terminal that play nice together? I have had bad luck with Robodyn Mega. I have two. One has a broken USB and the other one's USB is iffy. I would prefer something that was not as flimsy. I have a Sunfounder Mega and Ethernet, but it needs a screw shield. I have yet to figure that out.

 

[BrunDog]

Recommended: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UT13YXA
Alternate: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FTX0GZQ
Soldered 1: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JM8RWS9
Soldered 2: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CQW5WSX

 

[oakbarn]

Recommended: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UT13YXA
Alternate: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FTX0GZQ
Soldered 1: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JM8RWS9
Soldered 2: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CQW5WSX

I have looked at these (and have one), but how do you attach a mega with an Ethernet shield? Extra Long Headers?

We picked units that we thought matched the application best. There are applications where a seconds-only delay makes sense (like two motors powering on at the same time - this could make sure the circuit is not overloaded). Millisecond units doesn't make sense, nor do minutes in our estimation.

You can write what you like in a script... it doesn't mean it will work, so we recommend you pay attention to the limits. In this circumstance, the script will execute, but the value will be capped when it gets transmitted to the interface.

I am intrigued by using Hysteresis to control two motors. I thought that Hysteresis was for a heating element or a compressor with a temp probe input. Not sure how you would use Hysteresis or what Input you would use to control a motor.

Are there restrictions as to the type of motor? I have two Chugger pumps on the same circuit so a short delay would be nice. What would the Input Device be?

Does anyone use Hysteresis like this and why. I am always looking for new ways to do things!

 

[Tartan1]

I have looked at these (and have one), but how do you attach a mega with an Ethernet shield? Extra Long Headers?

You sandwich the sheild with the MEGA on the bottom and Ethernet on top

 

[BrunDog]

For the shield... the interface goes on the bottom (pin side) and the shield on the top (female receptacle side).

Regarding the Device Elements... there is no requirement to use any device element with a specific device. If the software function meets your hardware needs, go for it. The motor here could be a pump used to control flow, for example. The restrictions are hardware based - if you have the circuitry (relays etc), you can control any size motor you like.

 

[user 232000]

oakbarn,

I just purchased the same configuration, for the same reason, my RobotDyn kept flaking out and losing the Ethernet connection. I went to a screw shield + Ethernet board. It worked so I purchased a second set for my hot backup. I have two Mega2560's, one is a Sunflower clone.

I couldn't get the W5500 in time, but got the W5100 and they worked great.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AXVX5D0

Used this 2 pack of screw shields:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N2N7LZA

Tricky at first setting the Ethernet Shield in the right pin slots but was up and ruining once I got the MAC address and IP set via termite. I connect direct to the PC with a crossover cable.

on line without failure for 8 days and counting.

good luck

KDAZ

 

[VacationLand]

Odd that the RobotDyn is giving some folks trouble. I have two and they are rock solid. It is true it has a micro USB connector on it and that is way easier to break than the female USB B connector that is on the traditional MEGAs...if your not very good at plugging in USB cables.

Straight from the BC website...

 

[Die_Beerery]

Yup, my robodyns are rock solid as well.

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

Well, I just now, am 15 miles away from my system and my laptop with win10 just went unreachable... FML... 300 gallon ferment likely going over temp because the temp sensor is a Tilt via an ESP32 and the power for the pump is via a SonOff, and the power for the chiller is via a Mega.... I am screwed..... we need something that can fit in the damn panel that runs the software and is rock solid...

 

[BrunDog]

Lots of potential reasons why communication with your laptop could be unreachable. Don't understand what you are saying regarding these three interfaces (I assume cross-linked via scripting?). Curious to know what happened - let us know.

 

[VacationLand]

I'm not sure what exactly this all means but if you are 15 miles way, what are you using to determine that your laptop is unreachable? Is your laptop running BC and you are trying to use another device to RDP into your laptop running BC? If so, there are quite a few things between you and the Win10 OS itself that could be the problem for it not being reachable. Mobile network, WAN, your ISP, Cable/DSL modem, router, switches, LAN (or WLAN), laptop NIC, RDP software, then the Win10 OS itself. It is probably best to better understand the source of the problem before searching for a solution. I would also think a rock solid solution and being able to fit it in the panel as being independent of each other. I'm sure it would be great for some installations however.

As a side note. WiFi is solid enough for some things but I would not personally rely on it for any feedback controls due to the nature of its unreliability. Especially if the wireless AP is a consumer grade device. They can get unstable seemingly whenever they want to. It can still happen with enterprise grade equipment as well but in my experience it is reduced dramatically.

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

I have cameras, a managed switch (It is on a wired network...), and RDP into other machines on the network... Ping from the machine in my office works to the Mega, SonOff, and ESP32..... I have Cisco WS-C1832i-B-K9 AP's, they are enterprise class $1500 MSRP AP's made by the premier networking vendor on the planet... they are powered by a WS-C3560-24PS-S switch by the same manufacturer that has been powered on for about 13 years with no issues... the laptop running BC also plugs into this switch... I am a 18 year Cisco CCIE, I can say with 100% certainty that it is NOT the network... It could be Power or the OS, I am also 99.9% sure it is not the BC software's fault, just the choice of hardware i am limited to running it on.

Wireless is the easiest if not only option for Tilt hydrometers, with the mega (and Grand Central ) not having bluetooth... The BC and Arduino Mega are wired. I know it won't happen if it was a dedicated, fanless CPU device in the cabinet, but getting one that can run the bloated fatness that is Win10 is not an inexpensive task... If I were a brewery pumping out 100,000bbls a year, I could justify the noise, power, and expense of a 'server', but I am not..

 

[VacationLand]

Fair enough. It appears you are not looking for help from the community but rather requesting that BC be ported over to some other OS (Linux distro likely). Preferably one that would run on a SoC device that would more easily fit in an enclosure. That is something that only BrunDog can comment on (which I believe he has previously).

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

just frustrated...

 

[VacationLand]

Yep. I've been there as well.

 

[Tartan1]

Odd that the RobotDyn is giving some folks trouble. I have two and they are rock solid. It is true it has a micro USB connector on it and that is way easier to break than the female USB B connector that is on the traditional MEGAs...if your not very good at plugging in USB cables.

I had a intermittent disconnect/auto reconnect problem with mine (RobotDyn)while doing some testing a few days ago. Mine is powered thru the VIN using a 12VDC power supply and to me it seemed heat related at first, as it was totally random with no identifiable pattern.

I set up a room fan as I'm awaiting delivery of 2 computer case fans just to test my theory. It was placed about 3' from the panel and all seemed to fine afterwards. I tested the output from the PS and it was bang on 12VDC and hadn't creeped up any amount.
I contacted the supplier and inquired about power input requirements thru the VIN. What they said was that even though the MEGA specs say 7-12VDC is recommended 12VDC for a sustained time is not recommended and can cause overheating. The sweet spot they recommend for sustained usage is 7-9VDC.
Since I don't have anything in that range as far as PS go, so I tuned my 12VDC down to about 10.5VDC, to see if this would ease up a bit on the regulator. It did reduce the disconnects significantly however they do happen less frequently.
I'll have to do further testing to confirm if the PS is the problem or possibly a faulty voltage regulator maybe?

 

[VacationLand]

I believe you are on the right track. 12 VDC is technically OK but I don't think any of the MEGA micros (or any of the 3.3/5 VDC logic micros) like a constant 12VDC as it has to burn off a ton of energy as heat and that can make things unstable. I was doing 12VDC initially just like you but went over to 5 VDC through the USB port via an Adafruit powerboost and LiPO battery to act as a UPS. That setup is rock solid.

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

my mega has been on a meanwell 12V DIN rail PS for over a year without problems, but I do not have a large load on the mega... (no SSR's, only powered relay boards and a BC analog amplifier, also powered byt eh same PS...

 

[BrunDog]

just frustrated...

Do you have an update yet?

 

[BrunDog]

I believe you are on the right track. 12 VDC is technically OK but I don't think any of the MEGA micros (or any of the 3.3/5 VDC logic micros) like a constant 12VDC as it has to burn off a ton of energy as heat and that can make things unstable. I was doing 12VDC initially just like you but went over to 5 VDC through the USB port via an Adafruit powerboost and LiPO battery to act as a UPS. That setup is rock solid.

Agreed 2x. 12V down to 5V is a lot of voltage for a linear regulator to burn off. But 12V is so darned easy and ubiquitous!

 

[purdman10]

Agreed 2x. 12V down to 5V is a lot of voltage for a linear regulator to burn off. But 12V is so darned easy and ubiquitous!

People put me down, but that's why I use the Win10 on Arm on the RPI - it's in the cabinet!

 

[Die_Beerery]

People put me down, but that's why I use the Win10 on Arm on the RPI - it's in the cabinet!

I’m not quite sure it could run for me. Though it is tempting. I have 20+ scripts my longest being 2k lines. Over 175 elements, pids, graphs etc. I put a spot in the cabinet for a RPI along with the DIN carrier. So far it’s empty though.

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

Do you have an update yet?

I begged a kitchen pass from the better half and drove to the shop, 99% sure the laptop power brick died... HP 90W unit, I found one on eBay within 5 miles of the house with local pickup and will get it tomorrow...

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

right now I am kinda wishing for a 'tool' that could be used, maybe from a command line on another computer, that could just give simple commands or read simple things from interfaces... is such a tool possible? Might look like the interface setup.bat, and you enter the IP, the port, read or write(and on/off)

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

People put me down, but that's why I use the Win10 on Arm on the RPI - it's in the cabinet!

I like the concept, but with the amount of SD cards I have gone through on my fleet of RPi devices running a *nix variant, I would be concerned about the long term reliability of the system... especially with all the writes to the card from Windows and BC. That said, a PXE boot RPi with network storage would fit the bill nicely, but is more infrastructure overhead than most would be willing to manage. Personally, I am running a Windows server OS sitting on an ESXi host and I don't think I would do it any other way. All that said, I am interested in following your long term progress with Windows 10 on the Pi.

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

If I were a brewery pumping out 100,000bbls a year, I could justify the noise, power, and expense of a 'server', but I am not..

Virtualization is definitely your friend in automated/industrial environments. Coming from a networking background you probably know this, but for others that might be thinking the same way, high reliability/high availability hardware is not really that expensive on the secondary market. I bought used Dell PowerEdge hardware with redundant power supplies, dual CPU sockets, 256GB ram and out of band management for less than the cost of a laptop I recently bought.

https://unixsurplus.com/

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

I am not bringing a dump-truck into the backyard as a garden cart... the server is larger than my very large control panel... I have a stack of a dozen 1-u servers that were used for my vmware crap for doing NAC/WAAS/ISE/MARS/etc for Cisco stuff.... taking them to the electronics recycling, heck, I even have a nice, like brand new, Sun T1000 10-core unit from when 'containers' were a thing that competed with vmware.... My HP8510P works, but I want fanless and small, a search on alibaba shows some din-rail mount fanless units, but expensive and still only PentiumIII...

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

To each his own I guess. Depending on the size you have available in your panel, check out Arista's Industrial PC offerings. I've used their gear over the years for some of our panels and have been pleased with it. Most of it still runs on a single laptop brick though.

 

[oakbarn]

Deadband Control:

I have read and reread the manual (RTFM Dude) and my head hurts. I do not quite understand what this is. It looks like if you have something that is true PWM like a proportional Valve, this may be the way to control it. I have a manual valve that I now adjust for my cooling water on a Duda Diesel Plate chiller to maintain my WORT pitch temperature. Will this be a good candidate to take over that task if I get a proportional valve?

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

I am trying to use a proportional valve for a Distillation reflux condenser flow... and my head hurts...
I have both a PID and PWM device for the same output, and am just comment out the one I am not using(which is PID until I figure it out):

//"RC Valve PID" Enabled = true
"RC Valve Manual" Enabled = true

I have a long script to run through testing procedures, and still cannot get the BC PID to act like a Sestos discrete current/voltage PID that controls a Johnson Control proportional valve...

 

[BrunDog]

Deadband Control:

I have read and reread the manual (RTFM Dude) and my head hurts. I do not quite understand what this is. It looks like if you have something that is true PWM like a proportional Valve, this may be the way to control it. I have a manual valve that I now adjust for my cooling water on a Duda Diesel Plate chiller to maintain my WORT pitch temperature. Will this be a good candidate to take over that task if I get a proportional valve?

Yes this is a good candidate. I do exactly this on my personal rig. Note that most proportional devices are analog, not PWM. PWM is converted to analog very easily though.

 

[BrunDog]

I am trying to use a proportional valve for a Distillation reflux condenser flow... and my head hurts...
I have both a PID and PWM device for the same output, and am just comment out the one I am not using(which is PID until I figure it out):

//"RC Valve PID" Enabled = true
"RC Valve Manual" Enabled = true

I have a long script to run through testing procedures, and still cannot get the BC PID to act like a Sestos discrete current/voltage PID that controls a Johnson Control proportional valve...

Thought you figured out the tuning. Let’s take it off this thread and I’ll try to get it how you want it. Email us the latest.

 

[Tartan1]

I believe you are on the right track. 12 VDC is technically OK but I don't think any of the MEGA micros (or any of the 3.3/5 VDC logic micros) like a constant 12VDC as it has to burn off a ton of energy as heat and that can make things unstable. I was doing 12VDC initially just like you but went over to 5 VDC through the USB port via an Adafruit powerboost and LiPO battery to act as a UPS. That setup is rock solid.

FYI Update. Upon further testing I finally came to the conclusion 12VDC was too much power for my RobotDyn MEGA/Ethernet interface. I went with a setup similar to @VacationLand with the addition of an ON/OFF switch to enable me to shutdown the battery when I want the system totally OFF, and not having to disconnect the JST connector to the battery. The interface has been running for 2 days straight without a hiccup and is barely luke warm to the touch. All attached devices function well, and another added advantage is I don't have to mess with the MEGA onboard micro usb port when doing firmware updates as the cable stays in place. Just disconnect from the PowerBoost and into the laptop for updating.
Thanks for your insight @ VacationLand , I can finally say the system is stable.

 

[VacationLand]

FYI Update. Upon further testing I finally came to the conclusion 12VDC was too much power for my RobotDyn MEGA/Ethernet interface. I went with a setup similar to @VacationLand with the addition of an ON/OFF switch to enable me to shutdown the battery when I want the system totally OFF, and not having to disconnect the JST connector to the battery. The interface has been running for 2 days straight without a hiccup and is barely luke warm to the touch. All attached devices function well, and another added advantage is I don't have to mess with the MEGA onboard micro usb port when doing firmware updates as the cable stays in place. Just disconnect from the PowerBoost and into the laptop for updating.
Thanks for your insight @ VacationLand , I can finally say the system is stable.

That is great news. Others have been able to run various MEGA 2560 variants with 12VDC on the Vin (I did as well for a while) but it is not without potential problems. It seems you ran into one, identified the potential issue, installed an alternative, and got the result you wanted. Just like its supposed to be!

 

[dmcmillen]

I have decided to replace my 3 vessel, 2 pump, direct heat system (been brewing with it for several years) with an electric system automated with BC. This is a pretty long thread so I apologize upfront for asking questions that have probably already been answered. I really like @BrunDog's idea of a 2 vessel system, using the Quadzilla to accomplish the both the mash and the sparge, eliminating the need for the HLT. However, I still have to have a water source and I would like to eventually automate that. Right now I manually fill the MT and the HLT for my fly sparge and add salts. @BrunDog, I see in one of your videos that you have a couple of plastic RO water containers above your rig. I am assuming that you have an RO system that fills them; I don't see the hoses connected to anything so not sure whether you have filling your MT automated and without an HLT where is your sparge water coming from.

Anyway, I'm looking for ideas on how to incorporate water input into my design with the idea of automating at some point. Oh, I do have water (city, whole house treated) where my stand is. I use a potable hose to fill my vessels. Most of the time I use city water and sometimes use DI water (bottled at this time) depending on the treatment required.

Right now I am considering using an HLT but with no element assuming that the Quadzilla will heat the water to 170 for the mashout and sparge before it hits the MT.

 

[dmcmillen]

Need a bit of help to figure out my BC connectivity. My win7 desktop computer where I want to install BC is in my office and my brew setup is in my basement. I plan to use a 14" win10 laptop as the interface between BC and the MEGA. The basement because of distance and plaster walls in the house, make wifi too unpredictable and I would prefer to connect to the MEGA via ethernet anyway. I can easily run a long ethernet cable from my router to the basement, but I only have 1 ethernet port on the laptop. I don't think it would work to connect the ethernet cable from the router to a 5 port ethernet switch and then connect the laptop and MEGA to the switch??

I was planning on running MS Remote Desktop to run BC from my desktop but Win 7 is not supported on MS Remote Desktop. And I'm not quite ready to upgrade to Win 10 (will want to by Jan 2020 when win7 is no longer supported). Team Viewer is a subscription service so that's out and I don't like Chrome Remote Desktop.

@BrunDog, would it be possible to run BC on both machines and share files on a shared device? Anyway just thinking out loud which gets me in lots of trouble.

Would appreciate some suggestions here on the best way to accomplish this.

 

[crane]

Need a bit of help to figure out my BC connectivity. My win7 desktop computer where I want to install BC is in my office and my brew setup is in my basement. I plan to use a 14" win10 laptop as the interface between BC and the MEGA. The basement because of distance and plaster walls in the house, make wifi too unpredictable and I would prefer to connect to the MEGA via ethernet anyway. I can easily run a long ethernet cable from my router to the basement, but I only have 1 ethernet port on the laptop. I don't think it would work to connect the ethernet cable from the router to a 5 port ethernet switch and then connect the laptop and MEGA to the switch??

I was planning on running MS Remote Desktop to run BC from my desktop but Win 7 is not supported on MS Remote Desktop. And I'm not quite ready to upgrade to Win 10 (will want to by Jan 2020 when win7 is no longer supported). Team Viewer is a subscription service so that's out and I don't like Chrome Remote Desktop.

@BrunDog, would it be possible to run BC on both machines and share files on a shared device? Anyway just thinking out loud which gets me in lots of trouble.

Would appreciate some suggestions here on the best way to accomplish this.

Yes you can connect an Ethernet switch in your basement to a long cable back to your router and plug both the mega and the laptop into it. That's what I am doing to connect all my devices in the garage back to my router in the house.

I use tightVNC instead of remote desktop or TeamViewer. It's free and allows for multiple simultaneous remote connects back to the same PC. This is convenient for me as I run brucontrol on a separate PC than my main desktop in the house. I also have a small fanless PC in the garage for my brew stand, so I can go between the house and garage and I can stay connected to the brucontrol server from both PCs.

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

OK, should have kept my mouth shut, my MEGAs worked fine for a year on 12v, but within 2 days of posting that they worked great, my system started acting screwy, and something was causing the managed switch port to go into err-disabled state.. I swapped Mega/5500 assembly, and ran a new cable from another switch port, and it became clear that it worked better when the USB was plugged into the MEGA, and the 12V was disconnected from Vin...

Great, now I have 24VAC, 24VDC, 12VDC, and need to add 5VDC... more power supplies than anything else in my cabinet.. maybe I can eliminate the 12VDC one I have 5v usb plugged into a wall wort now, but it looks kludgy..

I would buy a 24V Mega industrial shield for 200Euro, but looks like they don't break the 1-wire pin 5 out, only pins 2 and 3.. maybe they will update to the SAMD51 and it will be worth looking at again...

I believe you are on the right track. 12 VDC is technically OK but I don't think any of the MEGA micros (or any of the 3.3/5 VDC logic micros) like a constant 12VDC as it has to burn off a ton of energy as heat and that can make things unstable. I was doing 12VDC initially just like you but went over to 5 VDC through the USB port via an Adafruit powerboost and LiPO battery to act as a UPS. That setup is rock solid.

Looking at this, do you have a pic of how you set it up?

FYI Update. Upon further testing I finally came to the conclusion 12VDC was too much power for my RobotDyn MEGA/Ethernet interface. I went with a setup similar to @VacationLand with the addition of an ON/OFF switch to enable me to shutdown the battery when I want the system totally OFF, and not having to disconnect the JST connector to the battery. The interface has been running for 2 days straight without a hiccup and is barely luke warm to the touch. All attached devices function well, and another added advantage is I don't have to mess with the MEGA onboard micro usb port when doing firmware updates as the cable stays in place. Just disconnect from the PowerBoost and into the laptop for updating.
Thanks for your insight @ VacationLand , I can finally say the system is stable.

can you expand on what you are disconnecting from where?

 

[Tartan1]

This is how mine is set up.

Pic #1 Micro USB (black) into RobotDyn MEGA which is mounted to a screw shield
Pic #2 Power Boost module with regular USB type "A" out to MEGA and micro USB in from 5.2VDC wall power supply. I'll move this to a DIN receptacle later.
Pic #3 Battery connected to Power Boost and switch using JST Connector.

To perform FW updates unplug regular USB type "A" from Power Boost module and into the laptop. Leave Micro USB connected to MEGA, it doesn't need to be moved.
I need to clean up the Power Boost (reroute) cables now that I'm done testing.
***If you decide to go this route you will have to decide which way to power your W5500. I ran a jumper on this board from the 3.3VDC pin to pin 7 as I was nervous about removing the solder pad jumper on the back, this allows the Ethernet W5500 to function.***

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

Thank you, a picture is worth a thousand words... and I like the ferrules on the wires, I should do that..