Brewzilla Gen4 Discussion/Tips Talk

[Neldog0]

Just pre-ordered a Gen4 65L from my LBS and excited to upgrade from my 3.1.1 65L Brewzilla. Many of the tips and tricks from (what I will call) the Gen3 HBT discussion thread were very helpful when I had just transitioned to the Brewzilla process. So, I thought a dedicated Gen4 thread for those new 35L & 65L owners should help shorten the learning curve for all of us, and not dilute the Gen3 thread.

Who of us will get their Gen4 first? Please post your experiences and "wish I had known that sooner" learning points here.

I recalibrated my Gen4. I have done this several times an my last attempt was from the bottom temp first.
Go to”Forget Calibration” and save.
Next: put 3 gal of water into the kettle.
Set a calibrated probe in the water and turn heating elements on. A note to remember: We mash-in from somewhere in the 140f to 150f ranges. You heat up for Cal1 to your lowest mash-in temp. I set mine to 139f. When I hit the temp of 140f I turned my elements off, waited for the overshoot, then when it settled @ 139f I saved Cal1 and saved.
Next: go to Cal2, start the elements & bring it to a rolling boil & save.
Note: DO NOT GO BACK INTO YOUR CALIBRATIONS ONCE YOU HAVE THEM. Otherwise you will have to start over.

By tightening up the range of calibration you increase the rate of repeatability by up to 46%.

As such, I use a probe to monitor m Mash up temp, & I have the heat exchanger installed. The exchanger smooths out the overshoots & provides a more manageable mash-in By doing this I manage both Mash-in & Mash- out within +\- 2f.

Note: please adjust you heating percentages and run you recirc pump during your mashing

 

[KegLand]

I have done 7 batches and found the temp setting 20+ degrees off but not across all temps. On my initial batch I set mash temp on BZ 4.0 65L to 154 degrees, the actual temps taken with 2 independent gauges read 170 degrees. This was in a 5 gal batch with less than 10 pounds of grain. I had to set the BZ to 126 degrees to give me 154. On the flip side when I went to boil I set my temp to 212 and it would not boil until I set the BZ to 218. That is a odd swing in readings. I tried to recalibrate my temps and must have done something wrong as it is off even more now. Can anyone help?

Is it possible to take photos of what you are doing and how you are measuring temperature. For instance take photos of where you are putting the probe when taking the readings.

All breweries have temperature differential at various different parts of the brewery. To better understand your issue it's best for you to send us photos of how you are calibrating and taking measurements.

 

[rtstrider]

For those that have used the Heat Exchanger Dish has this helped at all with the stuck mash circulation issues or is it more or less for more accurate temp readings/evening out temps? I do plan on investing in this, however, it is currently out of stock at morebeer.

 

[JoepH]

The HED is primairily for a better heat exchange with the heating elements. Faster and better heating. The Bluetooth thermometer overrides the build in probe. In that way mashing is much, much better. Invest in both and you will have a perfect system. I’v got the 65L gen4. Last batch op 42 liter went perfect.

 

[rtstrider]

The HED is primairily for a better heat exchange with the heating elements. Faster and better heating. The Bluetooth thermometer overrides the build in probe. In that way mashing is much, much better. Invest in both and you will have a perfect system. I’v got the 65L gen4. Last batch op 42 liter went perfect.

I'm still having issues with stuck mashes. I have some pre crushed grain from a brewery that uses a three tier system with recirculation. Going to invest in both the HED and Bluetooth thermometer as soon as they're available at the same time from morebeer

 

[JoepH]

Never had a stuck mash. I set my mill at 1,35 mm. Per 5 kg fermentables I use 1 liter rice huls, The top plate i use only when sparging.

 

[rtstrider]

Never had a stuck mash. I set my mill at 1,35 mm. Per 5 kg fermentables I use 1 liter rice huls, The top plate i use only when sparging.

Still trying to figure this out. The brewery grind looks to be a bit on the coarse side so going to run with that and rice hulls. I think I'm used to much finer grinds with the old 3 tier system with no recirculation. I've done some reading and it seems these all in one units, with recirculation, may require a coarser grind. We will see

I've set my grain mill to .035 for the time being. Will be using that in a couple of brews after I run out of this pre crushed sack.

 

[JoepH]

Never had a stuck mash. I set my mill at 1,35 mm. Per 5 kg fermentables I use 1 liter rice huls, The top plate i use only when sparging.

 

[JoepH]

0.035 inch is 0.88 mm that is much to fine for an all in one recurculation system. You will end with a stuck mash garanteed. You will learn from experians.

 

[rtstrider]

0.035 inch is 0.88 mm that is much to fine for an all in one recurculation system. You will end with a stuck mash garanteed. You will learn from experians.

I just widened the gap to .039 which is .991mm. Is that too fine still?

 

[DuncB]

0.035 inch is 0.88 mm that is much to fine for an all in one recurculation system. You will end with a stuck mash garanteed. You will learn from experians.

My maltzilla set at 0.75 mm no stuck mashes or sparges in my all in one.
But you get a very different type of crush with that mill. Grain contents crushed and husks broken but intact.
I use a few ml of glucanase if sticky adjuncts. Only time I had troubles was when I crushed rye to the perfect size to block up the holes in bottom of malt pipe. Majority of time run through is too quick. Mash efficiency 89 percent.

 

[JoepH]

Yes, go for a minimum of 1.30 mm. Your effecienty will be between 75 and 80%.
For you it is 0.051. Trust me in this.
After mash in I give it a 5 à 10 minute rest. Then start your profile and adjust the recirculation flow with the valve. When you want to stire only stire the upper 2/3 of your grainbuild. The lower 1/3 is your filterbed. Only brake that when you realy have a stuck mash.

 

[JoepH]

Manualy inspection of your crush is the best way. The husks intact is oké, and not to much flower and don’t forget the rice huls.

 

[mcmichaelangelo]

Has anyone done the suggested "re-plumb" of the pump so the wort runs to the tap before the pump? Kegland's manual suggests this so you can drain the boiler in case of a pump blockage. I made the change, but haven't brewed with this yet, but (duh!) just realized that this eliminates pumping through the tap into the fermenter. I suppose one could pump through the recirc arm into the fermenter, but seems circuitous... Anyway, just wondered what users' experiences were regarding the pump plumbing alteration... (page 12 of the manual).

 

[doug293cz]

Yes, go for a minimum of 1.30 mm. Your effecienty will be between 75 and 80%.
For you it is 0.051. Trust me in this.
After mash in I give it a 5 à 10 minute rest. Then start your profile and adjust the recirculation flow with the valve. When you want to stire only stire the upper 2/3 of your grainbuild. The lower 1/3 is your filterbed. Only brake that when you realy have a stuck mash.

I would say "don't take anyone's mill setting advice as gospel." Ok to look at a bunch of suggestions from different people to pick a starting point, but the crush, and how well it works in your system, is going to depend on the mill type, roller diameter, and RPM's, as well as the gap settings. Best to start at the higher range for gaps and work lower, to see just how fine you can go before things start plugging up.

Something to keep in mind is that you can't convert starch to sugar until after the starch is gelatinized, and time it takes to fully gelatinize the grits depends on the grit size, as well as temperature. Bigger grits take longer to gelatinize, and thus you need a longer mash to approach/achieve 100% conversion efficiency.

Brew on

 

[rtstrider]

I would say "don't take anyone's mill setting advice as gospel." Ok to look at a bunch of suggestions from different people to pick a starting point, but the crush, and how well it works in your system, is going to depend on the mill type, roller diameter, and RPM's, as well as the gap settings. Best to start at the higher range for gaps and work lower, to see just how fine you can go before things start plugging up.

Something to keep in mind is that you can't convert starch to sugar until after the starch is gelatinized, and time it takes to fully gelatinize the grits depends on the grit size, as well as temperature. Bigger grits take longer to gelatinize, and thus you need a longer mash to approach/achieve 100% conversion efficiency.

Brew on

I'm taking the approach of backing off a bit more each time until the mash no longer sticks. I really want to use the system as is

 

[SanPancho]

Has anybody been able to successfully use the Alerts function in the profiles you can program in rapt? The temp and time alerts don’t seem to work. Am only getting alerts when a profile finishes running, no matter whether I ask for one or not….

 

[doug293cz]

I'm taking the approach of backing off a bit more each time until the mash no longer sticks. I really want to use the system as is

You can greatly enhance the efficiency of your trial and error search for the perfect crush by doing a variation of the binary search algorithm.

1. Start by backing off a bit more than you think you need to
2. If you don't get a stuck mash, then go to 3, otherwise go back to 1
3. Next trial crush halfway between the setting in 1 and your previous setting
4. If you get a stuck mash, back off to half way between the last setting that worked, and the current setting. If you didn't get stuck, then try half way between the current setting and the last setting that stuck.
5. Repeat 4 until you are satisfied.

Brew on

 

[DuncB]

You can greatly enhance the efficiency of your trial and error search for the perfect crush by doing a variation of the binary search algorithm.

1. Start by backing off a bit more than you think you need to
2. If you don't get a stuck mash, then go to 3, otherwise go back to 1
3. Next trial crush halfway between the setting in 1 and your previous setting
4. If you get a stuck mash, back off to half way between the last setting that worked, and the current setting. If you didn't get stuck, then try half way between the current setting and the last setting that stuck.
5. Repeat 4 until you are satisfied.

Brew on

Another option is to crush some of the malt at the other setting and add it to your original mash setting crush, it modifies the crush percentage change less depending on the proportions.
But as @doug293cz says grain size, grain type, hydration, grain age, speed of milling etc will all affect the outcome and a visual or sieve check with a real world test on effect dials in the best results.

 

[Moto]

Has anyone done the suggested "re-plumb" of the pump so the wort runs to the tap before the pump? Kegland's manual suggests this so you can drain the boiler in case of a pump blockage. I made the change, but haven't brewed with this yet, but (duh!) just realized that this eliminates pumping through the tap into the fermenter. I suppose one could pump through the recirc arm into the fermenter, but seems circuitous... Anyway, just wondered what users' experiences were regarding the pump plumbing alteration... (page 12 of the manual).

I did this out of the box after hearing about the challenges some were having with pump blockages.

It seems to work well. I like being able to empty all the water out at the end of a brew day simply by opening the valve and tipping the unit sideways a little versus having to flip it upside down like on the Gen 3. I have a hose with a male camlock that replaces the recirculation arm when it is time to cool and send wort to the fermenter. If the internal pump ever flakes out or get plugged, I can still hook up my other brew pump to move the wort.

 

[Moto]

Has anybody been able to successfully use the Alerts function in the profiles you can program in rapt? The temp and time alerts don’t seem to work. Am only getting alerts when a profile finishes running, no matter whether I ask for one or not….

I was able to get this working with a couple of different triggers with the newest firmware.I attached a couple of screenshots below. The first is a temperature trigger and the second is a step end trigger (mash at 170*F for 10 minutes).

You have either the Android or Apple app installed, otherwise you won't get push notifications.

 

[mcmichaelangelo]

I did this out of the box after hearing about the challenges some were having with pump blockages.

It seems to work well. I like being able to empty all the water out at the end of a brew day simply by opening the valve and tipping the unit sideways a little versus having to flip it upside down like on the Gen 3. I have a hose with a male camlock that replaces the recirculation arm when it is time to cool and send wort to the fermenter. If the internal pump ever flakes out or get plugged, I can still hook up my other brew pump to move the wort.

Thanks for your response. Good to know I'm not alone. I was planning on making the hose and having my spare pump as a backup like you do.

 

[Whisky River]

Anyone done this on the 35L? Thinking about doing the same thing but pics would be welcome.

I did this out of the box after hearing about the challenges some were having with pump blockages.

It seems to work well. I like being able to empty all the water out at the end of a brew day simply by opening the valve and tipping the unit sideways a little versus having to flip it upside down like on the Gen 3. I have a hose with a male camlock that replaces the recirculation arm when it is time to cool and send wort to the fermenter. If the internal pump ever flakes out or get plugged, I can still hook up my other brew pump to move the wort.

Thanks for your response. Good to know I'm not alone. I was planning on making the hose and having my spare pump as a backup like you do.

 

[rtstrider]

Looks like morebeer has the hed back in stock. Also noticed that the rapt Bluetooth thermometer is no longer listed as out of stock, but, it's not available for purchase when added on to a brewzilla order. If both are available tomorrow I'm going to bite the bullet

 

[Teufelhunde]

I just widened the gap to .039 which is .991mm. Is that too fine still?

I am running mine at .050 and getting just barely flowable mashes with my BZ 3.1.1. Than again, my mill is a Maltzilla and they say it works a bit differently than most mills (I don't know what the difference is, it just appears that they use a different type of surface to do the crushing), so that may make a difference. I am actually going to loosen mine up a tad for the next brew as I would prefer to have it flow just a bit better.

 

[rtstrider]

I am running mine at .050 and getting just barely flowable mashes with my BZ 3.1.1. Than again, my mill is a Maltzilla and they say it works a bit differently than most mills (I don't know what the difference is, it just appears that they use a different type of surface to do the crushing), so that may make a difference. I am actually going to loosen mine up a tad for the next brew as I would prefer to have it flow just a bit better.

I have a hullwrecker from northern Brewer. I won't be testing this crush the next couple of brews as the grains I have are precrushed. Using grains from a local brewery the next few batches to see if there are still recirculation issues. If the hed is still available from morebeer tomorrow I'll be ordering that also.

 

[SanPancho]

I was able to get this working with a couple of different triggers with the newest firmware.I attached a couple of screenshots below. The first is a temperature trigger and the second is a step end trigger (mash at 170*F for 10 minutes).

You have either the Android or Apple app installed, otherwise you won't get push notifications.

Are you getting the temp alerts? I’ve done troubleshooting with KegLand probably dozen times but the temp alerts don’t work. I’m on newest firmware, other than temp calibration machine is at default settings. No luck, over and over.

was specifically told the alert you show first for temp would not work. That the step had to end when the temp is hit, that’s the way to trigger an alert.

 

[JoepH]

I am running mine at .050 and getting just barely flowable mashes with my BZ 3.1.1. Than again, my mill is a Maltzilla and they say it works a bit differently than most mills (I don't know what the difference is, it just appears that they use a different type of surface to do the crushing), so that may make a difference. I am actually going to loosen mine up a tad for the next brew as I would prefer to have it flow just a bit better.

Try 0.053 thats 1.35 mm metric and rice huls. No problem what do ever with my 65L gen4.

 

[rtstrider]

I put in an order for the HED this morning. It should be here by the end of next week. Will be putting it through it's paces on a Hornidal Hazy next weekend. Wanted an easy, toss everything in at whirlpool, and throw the fermenter in a dark room temperature place batch to try this on The bluetooth thermometer still was not available. I'm probably going to just put the HED through it's paces over the next couple of months and wait for the bluetooth thermometer supply to stabilize/normalize before biting the bullet. In the mean time I want to keep working on the recirculation issues so maybe just maybe there can be a ballpark crush guide line for these Gen 4's lol @JoepH do you stir during the mash and if so how often? Do you get low efficiency with that crush? I hit up TheHomebrewNetwork on youtube and they recommended backing all the way off to .054. That seems a little much but it may not be in the long run.

 

[Whisky River]

I put in an order for the HED this morning. It should be here by the end of next week. Will be putting it through it's paces on a Hornidal Hazy next weekend. Wanted an easy, toss everything in at whirlpool, and throw the fermenter in a dark room temperature place batch to try this on The bluetooth thermometer still was not available. I'm probably going to just put the HED through it's paces over the next couple of months and wait for the bluetooth thermometer supply to stabilize/normalize before biting the bullet. In the mean time I want to keep working on the recirculation issues so maybe just maybe there can be a ballpark crush guide line for these Gen 4's lol @JoepH do you stir during the mash and if so how often? Do you get low efficiency with that crush? I hit up TheHomebrewNetwork on youtube and they recommended backing all the way off to .054. That seems a little much but it may not be in the long run.

Do you have a link to the Bluetooth thermometer? I can’t find any listings for it on Morebeer or Williams.