Brewometer kickstarter thoughts - digital bluetooth hydrometer

[BrunDog]

Nice. I brewed a ~1050 Pale Ale Saturday afternoon and my hydrometer claimed 1049. The Brewometer said 1051 after about 30 mins. Temp was pretty much dead on too.

I personally could care less if the SG or the temp are off a point/degree or two. I will still probably take hydro samples pre and post to enter into my log as a matter of habit. I am more interested in trends and being able to monitor remotely, and so far this thing delivers.

Which reminds me... I rarely use dry yeast but I did on this brew because I didn't have time to make a starter. Rehydrated a packet of US-05 for 5.5 gals of oxygenated wort the in the fermenter. Damn lag time is way too much for my liking. 24 hours post pitch, but it still was showing no signs of life (Brewometer nor airlock). 36 it was starting to get going, but not with much vigor. Now at 48 hours, it's down to 1048... Gimme a break! 1500ml liquid starter would be half fermented by now.

 

[user 204491]

Yeah, totally agree with that. I will still use sample pre and post to get more accurate measurements, but this thing is great for showing trends and giving you a pretty close picture to where you're sitting at any given point. I'm sold. If I had more fermentation chambers I'd already be ordering more

Agreed on the dry yeast vs. starter, especially after seeing on my recent pale ale (sounds similar to yours) that fermentation was going 7 hours after pitch. I think it'll be done at the 48 hour mark if not sooner. That's a 2L starter for a 6 gallon batch, which is my general SOP.

It was also pretty cool to learn something about my fermentation chamber's performance from it and be able to make an adjustment leading to tighter temperature control.

 

[jmitchell3]

Nice. I brewed a ~1050 Pale Ale Saturday afternoon and my hydrometer claimed 1049. The Brewometer said 1051 after about 30 mins. Temp was pretty much dead on too.

I personally could care less if the SG or the temp are off a point/degree or two. I will still probably take hydro samples pre and post to enter into my log as a matter of habit. I am more interested in trends and being able to monitor remotely, and so far this thing delivers.

Which reminds me... I rarely use dry yeast but I did on this brew because I didn't have time to make a starter. Rehydrated a packet of US-05 for 5.5 gals of oxygenated wort the in the fermenter. Damn lag time is way too much for my liking. 24 hours post pitch, but it still was showing no signs of life (Brewometer nor airlock). 36 it was starting to get going, but not with much vigor. Now at 48 hours, it's down to 1048... Gimme a break! 1500ml liquid starter would be half fermented by now.

Pitch 2 packs or at least 22g and see how it does...

 

[EternalHoppiness]

Cool, thanks drgonzo2k2 for posting your updated spreadsheet. I definitely agree that it's great to learn things about your fermentation setup using this. I am really curious to see how much my temps swing during cold crash.

I put mine in a batch of IPA yesterday. Hydrometer read 1.063, and brewometer registered 1.065 (after calibrating zero in RO). I'm happy with that accuracy. After pitching the starter (750 ml after decanting), it dropped immediately to ~1.059. The color/cloudiness of the starter made it apparent that the starter was mostly confined to the top 2 inches of the fermenter, so that SG change makes sense. It wasn't until about 12 hours later that the yeast got things moving enough that the measured SG went back up a few points (but not back up to OG since it was now fermenting). I don't know about your setup, drgonzo2k2 but I wonder if you have similar starter stratification that is causing your initial low readings?

@BrunDog, I have similar slow starts when using US-05. At one point I had convinced myself that it was worse when I oxygenated (maybe causing a longer lag phase?), but I'm not sure this was really true. If it really is just a longer lag phase due to absorbing more O2, then I don't know if it's really a problem, but I usually avoid US-05 if I have time for a starter.

 

[BrunDog]

Pitch 2 packs or at least 22g and see how it does...

I probably should have.

 

[user 204491]

After pitching the starter (750 ml after decanting), it dropped immediately to ~1.059. The color/cloudiness of the starter made it apparent that the starter was mostly confined to the top 2 inches of the fermenter, so that SG change makes sense. It wasn't until about 12 hours later that the yeast got things moving enough that the measured SG went back up a few points (but not back up to OG since it was now fermenting). I don't know about your setup, drgonzo2k2 but I wonder if you have similar starter stratification that is causing your initial low readings?

That's an interesting theory. I pitch my yeast and oxygenate for 60 seconds prior to dropping in the Brewometer. When I oxygenate I swirl my wand around the fermenter, so I think it does a pretty good job of mixing everything up. So while I'd expect it could read a few points lower than my pre-pitch gravity, I don't think it could drop as much as 9-12 points? Looking at a dilution calculator, for my 6 gallons of 1.053 wort, to drop it down to 1.044 I would need to add 1.23 gallons of water. I'm assuming that's water at 1.0 SG, while I'm pitching in starter wort which I'd imagine is in the 1.1(ish) SG range (coming down from 1.04).

I would also expect that if dilution was causing it, after some time that things have been sufficiently mixed, it should bump back up to near what my hydrometer read, thus negating the calibration I started, but in two instances I didn't notice that happening. It'll be interesting to see what these two units read in water once I'm done with my fermentation.

Oddly enough I heard back from the developers yesterday and they completely skipped addressing this question in my last email to them. I think I'll email them back and point it out to see if they have any input.

 

[HLSheppard]

The last batch I brewed (5 gal. Westy 12 clone) read 1.085 on a standard hydrometer. I pitched my starter 1.8L starter that had a good 1/2" + of slurry (only the slurry was pitched). I oxygenated as usual (60 seconds with a wand).

A short while after I added the Brewometer, it read 1.075. The temp was right on, though.

 

[user 204491]

That seems pretty consistent with my experience these last two times as well. Once my gravity was off by 9 points and another time it was off by 12. I calibrated it to my hydrometer reading, and it remained spot on after that. It sounds like you only pitched 1/2" of slurry out of your 2L flask, so I don't see how that possibly could have diluted the gravity of your wort by 10 points.

I also left mine for over an hour (the second one for close to 90 minutes if I recall correctly), and the gravity reading never adjusted itself at all (it did bob around a point or two as usual). The temp matched up after only 5-10 minutes though.

Even if the large volume of yeast in suspension, or the low gravity starter wort, was at the top of the fermenter and throwing off gravity readings initially, I would think after 90 minutes things would start to settle out and the reading would adjust some, but for me that was not the case.

I haven't had a chance to get back to the developer yet, but I will try to do so today to see what they say. It will also be interesting to see what the units read in water when I'm done with my fermentation.

 

[LBussy]

Decisions decisions ... this or a BrewPi Spark!

 

[EternalHoppiness]

That's an interesting theory. I pitch my yeast and oxygenate for 60 seconds prior to dropping in the Brewometer. When I oxygenate I swirl my wand around the fermenter, so I think it does a pretty good job of mixing everything up. So while I'd expect it could read a few points lower than my pre-pitch gravity, I don't think it could drop as much as 9-12 points? Looking at a dilution calculator, for my 6 gallons of 1.053 wort, to drop it down to 1.044 I would need to add 1.23 gallons of water. I'm assuming that's water at 1.0 SG, while I'm pitching in starter wort which I'd imagine is in the 1.1(ish) SG range (coming down from 1.04).

Yeah, if you are oxygenating after pitching, then I would be surprised if your starter didn't mix in well. I do the opposite and oxygenate before pitching, so it doesn't mix much until fermentation starts. So yeah, I'm out of ideas.

For my case, if I assume the starter (750 ml @ 1.012) is in the top 2 gallons of the wort (OG of 1.063), then that works out to about 1.058 combined, pretty consistent with my measurements. This thing is pretty cool. I'm looking forward to using it on a lager so I know when to ramp temps.

 

[55x11]

here's my BrewoMeter on my recently brewed American Wheat Ale. Chugging along just fine (gap in data is when I unplugged dedicated phone and it ran out of charge)

 

[user 204491]

Yeah, if you are oxygenating after pitching, then I would be surprised if your starter didn't mix in well. I do the opposite and oxygenate before pitching, so it doesn't mix much until fermentation starts. So yeah, I'm out of ideas.

For my case, if I assume the starter (750 ml @ 1.012) is in the top 2 gallons of the wort (OG of 1.063), then that works out to about 1.058 combined, pretty consistent with my measurements. This thing is pretty cool. I'm looking forward to using it on a lager so I know when to ramp temps.

Well, at least that's what I think I did, as it's my SOP generally, but I suppose I could have used oxygen for 60 seconds and then pitched. Pretty sure I just did what i normally do though. Still though, seems like a plausible enough explanation that I'm questioning myself. What I can't figure with that explanation though is why now my (incorrectly) calibrated Brewometer is not off. For example the one I said was reading 12 points low (1.049 instead of 1.061) is now reading at 1.012. So if my calibration is wrong, wouldn't the beer actually be at 1.000 (or pretty close to that).

Either way I did bring it up to the developers, and they seemed kind of stumped, suggesting that maybe the shape of my fermenter or lack of headspace was causing the issue. Don't see how though as I use a Speidel 30L and a modified 1st gen Coopers FV as my two main primaries. Both seem to be pretty normally shaped to me, and they have headspace for days when you're fermenting 6 gallons.

When these beers are done fermenting I will see what they read in water, and on the next brew day I will make darn sure to pitch, then oxygenate, then toss in the Brewometer and see if I'm still running into issues.

Even if you have to calibrate on brew day I still think that's a minor inconvenience and these things rock! :rockin:

 

[arfenarf]

Decisions decisions ... this or a BrewPi Spark!

Heh. I'm trying to figure out a way to answer, 'both!'

I haven't dug into the BrewPi source code enough to know how hard it would be to add a bluetooth receiver to the BrewPi and have it take input from the Brewometer.

For the time being, though, my new Brewometer has been in its inaugural batch for 48 hours and is working like a champ.

http://kateweber.com/2016/05/16/maibock/

 

[LBussy]

Heh. I'm trying to figure out a way to answer, 'both!'

I haven't dug into the BrewPi source code enough to know how hard it would be to add a bluetooth receiver to the BrewPi and have it take input from the Brewometer.

For the time being, though, my new Brewometer has been in its inaugural batch for 48 hours and is working like a champ.

http://kateweber.com/2016/05/16/maibock/

I'm not sure I'd want to regulate temp with the Brewometer, but it sure would be nice to include gravity as part of the BrewPi UI.

 

[user 204491]

Yeah, I'm on my 3rd ferment with the Brewometer, and while it is great for monitoring and tracking trends, I think the variability is just too much to try to hook temperature control up to it. I've found the probe in my thermowell to be much more reliable and doesn't tend to bounce around at all.

Don't get me wrong, I love the thing, but I just don't think it's good for that particular purpose.

Also I love every time I see those gauges pop up somewhere

 

[Carlscan26]

Yeah, I'm on my 3rd ferment with the Brewometer, and while it is great for monitoring and tracking trends, I think the variability is just too much to try to hook temperature control up to it. I've found the probe in my thermowell to be much more reliable and doesn't tend to bounce around at all.

Don't get me wrong, I love the thing, but I just don't think it's good for that particular purpose.

Also I love every time I see those gauges pop up somewhere

I agree for not using its temp sensors to regulate temperature on a running basis but I believe you can use the gravity readings to kick off ferment temperature change/ramp steps. For example bumping the temp up for a diacetyl rest once primary fermentation is done.

 

[user 204491]

I agree for not using its temp sensors to regulate temperature on a running basis but I believe you can use the gravity readings to kick off ferment temperature change/ramp steps. For example bumping the temp up for a diacetyl rest once primary fermentation is done.

Totally agree with that, and that is exactly one of the things I'm using mine for!

 

[EternalHoppiness]

What I can't figure with that explanation though is why now my (incorrectly) calibrated Brewometer is not off. For example the one I said was reading 12 points low (1.049 instead of 1.061) is now reading at 1.012. So if my calibration is wrong, wouldn't the beer actually be at 1.000 (or pretty close to that).
. . .

Even if you have to calibrate on brew day I still think that's a minor inconvenience and these things rock! :rockin:

I agree it does seem odd that the cal is apparently correct at lower SG, especially when it seemed good in water before adding to the wort. Did you clear the cal point from water when you added the new one at the start of fermentation? You've probably played with this more than I have, but I think it is a multi-point cal and just adds a new point by default rather than replacing. My guess is they just use a linear fit between the points.

If in fact you do have two cal points entered (one at 1.000 and one at 1.061), then it maybe it's now approximately correct across the range? It would be interesting to make a cup of sugar water at various concentrations and check it when your current batch is done.

But yeah, I am probably overthinking it. Totally agree that even with the cal strangeness, these are pretty cool.

 

[user 204491]

I agree it does seem odd that the cal is apparently correct at lower SG, especially when it seemed good in water before adding to the wort. Did you clear the cal point from water when you added the new one at the start of fermentation? You've probably played with this more than I have, but I think it is a multi-point cal and just adds a new point by default rather than replacing. My guess is they just use a linear fit between the points.

If in fact you do have two cal points entered (one at 1.000 and one at 1.061), then it maybe it's now approximately correct across the range? It would be interesting to make a cup of sugar water at various concentrations and check it when your current batch is done.

But yeah, I am probably overthinking it. Totally agree that even with the cal strangeness, these are pretty cool.

Hey, yeah, just checked, and I did not remove my previous calibration, just added a second one, so perhaps you are correct.

I'll definitely report back once they're out of beer and I've checked them against water again.

 

[Bigdaddyale]

Just a heads up....
The Amazon Fire does not come standard with Google Play installed. That is needed to download the Brewometer app. You have to kind of 'hack' the Fire tablet to get the app installed since Amazon doesn't want you to use Google. They want you to use Amazon. Imagine that.

I had a couple of false starts googling how to do it but eventually found a youtube video that explained it. It appears to be working fine now.

http://www.rootjunky.com/amazon/amazon-fire-7in-5th-gen/

 

[day_trippr]

Ugh - ^drama^.
I never came across an Android app that I couldn't simply side-load from an apk on our Fire HD...

Cheers!

 

[BrunDog]

Yeah, that!! ^^^

 

[raysmithtx]

Ugh - side-load from an apk on our Fire HD...

No drama intended. I had never used an Android device and was surprised it wouldn't just load the Brewometer app. and it took a while to figure out how to do it.

I was just trying to let others know that.

I don't know what 'side-load from apk on Fire HD' even means.

 

[Derp]

Mine arrived yesterday and as soon as I opened it up I put it in a pint glass of tap water and it read 1.001 and was about half a degree off, so I was quite pleased. After a few minutes I removed it from the glass and placed it on the countertop for an hour or two while I had a few beers on the street with the neighbors. When I came back inside I refilled the glass with RO water with the intention of running a test for a few days and playing around with logging to the cloud. When I put it in the RO water it read about 2.235. I thought it might be an erroneous reading due to the time it spent out of water, but it's still reading about the same. I tried correcting it with calibration points and it got it in the ballpark, but there are still some big swings.

Any idea about what's happening? I assume it might be the size/shape of the pint glass, so I guess I might try filling a larger vessel with RO water and see what it reads. Maybe I just got lucky the first time?

EDIT: I figured it out. The device was upside down in the glass. I flipped it over and it went right back to 1.001.

 

[user 204491]

Mine arrived yesterday and as soon as I opened it up I put it in a pint glass of tap water and it read 1.001 and was about half a degree off, so I was quite pleased. After a few minutes I removed it from the glass and placed it on the countertop for an hour or two while I had a few beers on the street with the neighbors. When I came back inside I refilled the glass with RO water with the intention of running a test for a few days and playing around with logging to the cloud. When I put it in the RO water it read about 2.235. I thought it might be an erroneous reading due to the time it spent out of water, but it's still reading about the same. I tried correcting it with calibration points and it got it in the ballpark, but there are still some big swings.

Any idea about what's happening? I assume it might be the size/shape of the pint glass, so I guess I might try filling a larger vessel with RO water and see what it reads. Maybe I just got lucky the first time?

EDIT: I figured it out. The device was upside down in the glass. I flipped it over and it went right back to 1.001.

Haha, at first I thought how could it possibly be upside down, but yeah, I guess in a pint glass there wouldn't be any room to flip over.

 

[Derp]

Haha, at first I thought how could it possibly be upside down, but yeah, I guess in a pint glass there wouldn't be any room to flip over.

I could have sworn that I'd checked to make sure the weights were on the bottom, but I guess I might have had one too many beers last night.

 

[beskone]

Anyone have their gravity readings get stuck?

I have an IPA that should be already down in the low teens but appears to be stuck at 1.035. This was after a big dip down to ~1.020, then it climbed back up.

I'm hoping that during a really active part of the fermentation some krausen got stuck and it's throwing the readings off. There's no way this beer is still at 1.035 after 5 days...

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

Have you given your fermenter a shake or stir? Maybe that will correct it? I may be way off though since I got mine about 6 weeks ago, but stupid work and vacation got in the way so I haven't even had a chance to use it yet.

 

[beskone]

Have you given your fermenter a shake or stir? Maybe that will correct it? I may be way off though since I got mine about 6 weeks ago, but stupid work and vacation got in the way so I haven't even had a chance to use it yet.

It's possible it's stuck in the krausen or up against the fermenter. I'll give her a shake tonight and see. The last IPA I made with this yeast finished in a little under 4 days so i'm sure the readings are not correct.

 

[user 204491]

From the chart you've provided, the drop down to ~1.020 would appear to be the anomaly (even if that is the correct reading). Have you taken a hydrometer reading to compare?