Brewometer kickstarter thoughts - digital bluetooth hydrometer

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Well, my "Otterly Mosaic" Maris Otter/Mosaic SMaSH stopped bubbling a day or so ago, so I thought it was time for an update.

My OG from my eDrometer (which I trust implicitly, as I loaned it to a brewmaster friend of mine and he said it was spot-on) was 1.0895.

When I threw in the Tilt, and let it sit, my initial reading from it came in at 1.074, quite a difference.

I decided to let nature take its course, and see what happened.

The Tilt today is showing a SG of 1.042, way higher than I expected.

I took a sample from the sanke fermenter and ran it through the eDrometer. SG of 1.0423, so pretty much the same. :rockin:

This is not where I expected it to be. I tasted the sample, and it's pretty good, very full bodied, nicely bitter, and by my eDrometer calculations, about 6.3% ABV.

This was my first time using Maillard Malts Maris Otter liquid extract, so I wasn't quite sure what to expect. It's possible that there's a lot of unfermentable sugars in there, which would explain the high SG.

Or it could be a stuck fermentation. :(

I've swirled the sanke to try to rouse the yeast. If that has no result, I'll drop in a packet or two of WLP001 (I used 2 packets of WLP090 in a 3 liter starter initially).

The only other thing that was odd was the battery power too a sudden dramatic drop at one point:

TiltBatteryGraph.png


So far, I'm please with the Tilt. I'll be even happier when they release the Raspberry Pi app.
 
So I've been loving my Brewometer (I'll keep with that name for now) and got it integrated into my personal homebrew site: http://rainesworld.beer, I'm brewing with a Grainfather and a chest freezer run by a BrewPi.

I created a site to mimic my personal site so other people with Brewometers could share what the were Brewing. I'm looking for feedback, you know how it goes :) I threw it together over a couple weekends, currently you can upload a BeerXML file and and create a link for the Brewometer app to post the data to.

http://brewstat.us

-Raine
 
I've used mine for maybe five batches thus far. Overall, I think it's a great tool and I have been very happy with it. I have noticed that the range seems to have gotten much shorter lately. I replaced the battery but no change. I also notice that it used to update every few seconds (within the app). Now, it updates once (maybe twice) and then it won't update again until I close and re-open the app.

Anyone else experience this?
 
rlightner said:
So I've been loving my Brewometer (I'll keep with that name for now) and got it integrated into my personal homebrew site: http://rainesworld.beer, I'm brewing with a Grainfather and a chest freezer run by a BrewPi.

I created a site to mimic my personal site so other people with Brewometers could share what the were Brewing. I'm looking for feedback, you know how it goes :) I threw it together over a couple weekends, currently you can upload a BeerXML file and and create a link for the Brewometer app to post the data to.

http://brewstat.us

-Raine
Click to expand...

Sounds fun, not brewing for a couple of weeks, but I'll try and remember to set this up.
 
rlightner said:
So I've been loving my Brewometer (I'll keep with that name for now) and got it integrated into my personal homebrew site: http://rainesworld.beer, I'm brewing with a Grainfather and a chest freezer run by a BrewPi.

I created a site to mimic my personal site so other people with Brewometers could share what the were Brewing. I'm looking for feedback, you know how it goes :) I threw it together over a couple weekends, currently you can upload a BeerXML file and and create a link for the Brewometer app to post the data to.

http://brewstat.us

-Raine
Click to expand...

Whoa! This is nice, I like this a lot. Did you write this interface your self?
 
HLSheppard said:
I've used mine for maybe five batches thus far. Overall, I think it's a great tool and I have been very happy with it. I have noticed that the range seems to have gotten much shorter lately. I replaced the battery but no change. I also notice that it used to update every few seconds (within the app). Now, it updates once (maybe twice) and then it won't update again until I close and re-open the app.

Anyone else experience this?
Click to expand...

Android by chance?

boat_eggs said:
are you using android or iOS? on android I had to exit the app, turn bluetooth off, back on and reload the app regain a connection. everytime. I now have a stupid iPad mini that "just works" :smack:
Click to expand...
 
HLSheppard said:
I've used mine for maybe five batches thus far. Overall, I think it's a great tool and I have been very happy with it. I have noticed that the range seems to have gotten much shorter lately. I replaced the battery but no change. I also notice that it used to update every few seconds (within the app). Now, it updates once (maybe twice) and then it won't update again until I close and re-open the app.

Anyone else experience this?
Click to expand...

I bought a cheap Android tablet (Astro Tab A737) that claims Bluetooth 4.0 compaibility, but it behaves a lot like what you describe. It's pretty much unusable. However, when I use my LG G2 phone (also Android) I have no problems. But, I can't tie up my phone just for this app.

Brew on :mug:
 
doug293cz said:
I bought a cheap Android tablet (Astro Tab A737) that claims Bluetooth 4.0 compaibility, but it behaves a lot like what you describe. It's pretty much unusable. However, when I use my LG G2 phone (also Android) I have no problems. But, I can't tie up my phone just for this app.

Brew on :mug:
Click to expand...

I'm not actually talking about logging the data (I tried an older, rooted Kindle for this and had the exact same problem you describe).

I talking about just checking on progress (once or twice per day) with my Nexus 6p. It worked flawlessly when the Brewometer/Tilt was new. Now - not so much.

I reached out to the developers who just said to make sure my phone was updated (it always is) and that I should delete and reinstall the app (been there, done that). Didn't see much improvement.

Oh well, first world problem...
 
Is this the same device that's in it?

Bean-vertical.jpg


If so, or even if not, these are arduino-compatible, have battery power, BLE, temp and an accelerometer. A smart person could use these as an open-source approach. They run ~$30 right now.
 
LBussy said:
Is this the same device that's in it?

Bean-vertical.jpg


If so, or even if not, these are arduino-compatible, have battery power, BLE, temp and an accelerometer. A smart person could use these as an open-source approach. They run ~$30 right now.
Click to expand...
Looks just like what is in mine, although not all the component markings are the same.

Brew on :mug:
 
I think if you're trying to roll you own here you would need the weight mechanism, the adapter for the larger battery, and their algorithm for how they're mapping degrees of tilt to a gravity reading.
 
drgonzo2k2 said:
I think if you're trying to roll you own here you would need the weight mechanism, the adapter for the larger battery, and their algorithm for how they're mapping degrees of tilt to a gravity reading.
Click to expand...

The adapter for the battery and weight could be 3D-printed, the weights could be as simple as small shot. The algorithm would require some experimentation with known SG liquids, and a lot of extrapolation.

It's all doable, the question is it cheaper to get the known-working device, or try to roll your own. Depends on how much you value your spare time.
 
drgonzo2k2 said:
I think if you're trying to roll you own here you would need the weight mechanism, the adapter for the larger battery, and their algorithm for how they're mapping degrees of tilt to a gravity reading.
Click to expand...
The code is already available, however it would have to be modified depending on the case, carrier, battery, weight used, etc.

The stock battery (CR2032) has about 15% of the capacity of the CR123. Not sure if that's enough to make it through one brew or not.

BrunDog said:
Makes no sense at the cost they sell it for, unless you are doing volume.
Click to expand...
It's not about saving money, it's about understanding the device and potentially allowing a greater breadth of platforms with which it can be used. It's just like the BrewPi ... ultimately it's easier and some would say cheaper in the long run to buy one; but people still like to tinker.

jimmayhugh said:
The adapter for the battery and weight could be 3D-printed, the weights could be as simple as small shot. The algorithm would require some experimentation with known SG liquids, and a lot of extrapolation.

It's all doable, the question is it cheaper to get the known-working device, or try to roll your own. Depends on how much you value your spare time.
Click to expand...
I think the real value here is gaining an understanding of the workings of it in an effort to improve upon the platform.

For instance: What if a guy needs more than eight? First world problem, I know, but people working on this would instantly allow naming them something other than the eight stock colors.

What about the variability in the data? An enterprising person could apply some advanced statistics and smooth out the data coming from the Tilt so that less post-processing is needed. Perhaps even none.

I'm not suggesting taking ANYTHING away from the founders, because it's their idea. People who will tinker, will tinker. Those are not lost sales. Look at Jimmay for instance - he's bought one and is giving back to the "community" by releasing what he knows. Others are doing it as well. The more "makers" attracted to this as a platform the more universal their original (patented) product becomes and the patent owners benefit.

Let's face it: A patent is nice, but becoming the defacto standard is something that you can't pay for. If all this tinkering results in people adopting LBB-based electronics to integrate within their brewery, the guys selling the turnkey solution will always benefit. Again I point at the BrewPi guys who had a product popular enough (even after tinkerers started making them themselves) to attract sales from multiple continents. Popular and profitable enough to upgrade and improve. I think we all hope for the same for the Tilt guys.

What I'd REALLY like to see is the Tilt guys embrace the community with open source and the benefits that can come from community contributions - at least with the device code. There may be reasons why this would be a bad idea with the apps (especially with Apple) but certainly the "firmware" could be open.

Remember: A Patent does not legally prevent one from making that item for one's own personal use.
 
Ultimately you are trying to copy someone's product which they, hopefully, have some patents protecting this. I assume you are just speculating and not actually thinking about doing it. It seems to me they have been pretty cool to this community and you are starting to head down a slippery slope.
 
TorMag said:
Ultimately you are trying to copy someone's product which they, hopefully, have some patents protecting this. I assume you are just speculating and not actually thinking about doing it. It seems to me they have been pretty cool to this community and you are starting to head down a slippery slope.
Click to expand...

I can use their patent in order to improve the device, and if it's a major improvement, I may be able to submit a patent for the improved device. I could use a more sensitive accelerometer, a different cpu, etc. The tilt is made from off-the-shelf parts, with the possible exception of the battery/weight plastic.

There's code out there already that looks like an early version. here's a snippet:
Code: 
double getAvgPitch(int count) {
  AccelerationReading accel = {0, 0, 0};
  double x = 0;
  double y = 0;
  double z = 0;
  for (int i = 0; i < count; i++) {
    accel = Bean.getAcceleration();
    x += accel.xAxis;
    y += accel.yAxis;
    z += accel.zAxis;
  }

  double pitch = atan(y / sqrt(x * x + z * z)) *  57.3;
  return pitch;
}

double convertPitch(double avgPitch) {
  double sG  = cal[0] * avgPitch * avgPitch * avgPitch + cal[1] * avgPitch * avgPitch + cal[2] * avgPitch + cal[3] + sgOffset - 20;
  return sG;
}

The Tilt guys have done a great job of implementing this device, but nothing would prevent me from using whatever's in the public domain to create my own. Patents only come into play if I try to profit from it.
 
It depends on what they have the patent on. If they have a patent on taking gravity readings with a tilt device?

Honestly, if you have better ideas to improve the product, you should contacting them and work out a deal of some sort, get into bed with them. I am sure they have probably knocked some of your ideas around already.
 
TorMag said:
It depends on what they have the patent on. If they have a patent on taking gravity readings with a tilt device?

Honestly, if you have better ideas to improve the product, you should contacting them and work out a deal of some sort, get into bed with them. I am sure they have probably knocked some of your ideas around already.
Click to expand...

I did hardware/software/embedded systems design for the better part of 25 years. I'm not interested in "getting in bed" with anyone except my wife of 30 years.

The things that I do, I do because it interests me. If what I produce (TeensyPi, TeensyNet, TeensyNetESP8266, ESP8266 Temp Controller, et al) is useful to someone, they are welcome to it.

You seem to keep glossing over the fact that patents are not going to affect what I investigate, as I'm not interested in profitting from it.
 
So I received my Brewometer the other week and after spending all weekend setting up the Brewpi (legacy) to play nicely with it (had to start from scratch multiple times!) and also setting up an old cellphone to push updates to @rlightner amazing brewstat.us website I can happily say that it was time well spent indeed!

I'm stoked to finally have some SG visibility on where my Beer is at...a brilliant device, buy one now! :)
 
brewnz said:
So I received my Brewometer the other week and after spending all weekend setting up the Brewpi (legacy) to play nicely with it (had to start from scratch multiple times!) and also setting up an old cellphone to push updates to @rlightner amazing brewstat.us website I can happily say that it was time well spent indeed!

I'm stoked to finally have some SG visibility on where my Beer is at...a brilliant device, buy one now! :)
Click to expand...
I think this is the part that most interests me - the BrewPi integration. My only holdout is I've been messing around with the various flavors of BrewPi branches. Currently using the ESP8266. Now if that little guy had BTLE and I could use the Tilt with multiple chambers and BrewPi .... I'd be all in.
 
LBussy said:
I think this is the part that most interests me - the BrewPi integration. My only holdout is I've been messing around with the various flavors of BrewPi branches. Currently using the ESP8266. Now if that little guy had BTLE and I could use the Tilt with multiple chambers and BrewPi .... I'd be all in.
Click to expand...

With multiple chamber set ups you run a single brewpi instance for each chamber. You would set up a Tilt for each one of these instances. The rpi3 has on board low power bluetooth, or you can buy a low power bluetooth usb dongle online for rpi1/2/zero, etc. Better get that wallet out :mug:
 
See the problem with this forum is everyone is an enabler. :)

I have the RPi3, I guess I need to go look at the integration steps. Is that over on the BrewPi forums?
 
LBussy said:
See the problem with this forum is everyone is an enabler. :)

I have the RPi3, I guess I need to go look at the integration steps. Is that over on the BrewPi forums?
Click to expand...

I believe so, I *think* someone linked them in this thread in the last few pages. Google will turn it up quickly enough.

It's been a while since I've messed with my brewpi installation. I believe some people are having trouble with the brewpi software and rpi 3. Maybe it was just in regard to extras like LCDs? I know I've seen @day_trippr discuss it, maybe he could fill you in. But it's probably a discussion for another thread, too.
 
thekraken said:
I believe so, I *think* someone linked them in this thread in the last few pages. Google will turn it up quickly enough.
Click to expand...
This seems to be it:
https://github.com/sibowler/brewpi-brewometer

thekraken said:
It's been a while since I've messed with my brewpi installation. I believe some people are having trouble with the brewpi software and rpi 3. Maybe it was just in regard to extras like LCDs? I know I've seen @day_trippr discuss it, maybe he could fill you in. But it's probably a discussion for another thread, too.
Click to expand...
Bluetooth Serial and a few other things. Straight BrewPi works fine (for me). The issues people get seem to pop up when using multiple chambers (Bluetooth) or other things like RPints.
 
Murphys_Law said:
I'm certainly not a wiz on spreadsheets so how would you set up a graph to only measure the AVG SG and Temp for a day, and then just use one-day plots on the time line?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you figured this out, or if someone else already responded (I tried to keep up with this thread, but it's massive!).

My solution to your request was the following:

On the Report sheet, add this formula to an empty cell in column A:
=AVERAGEIF(C2:C10029, ">=" & (TODAY()),D2: D10029)

The only drawback to using this is that if you don't have any data for the day you get a #DIV/0! error in the cell. If I only knew how to fix that....

Here's my published sheet that show's gauges of the AVG SG and AVG Temp. I'd suppose it would be fairly easy to create a graph type chart, but I'm not really sure if that would be beneficial to see.
 

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