Brewing with honey

[mgonbrewlab]

I guess this isn't a complete beginner question, but it doesn't involve techniques.

I am looking to make a simple strong honey-based beer, all extract, with only what I have on hand. I will probably add specialty grains steeped but I have not thought that far ahead yet.

I have 9 lbs of gold LME and 3 lbs of honey on hand, as well as 1 lb of caramel 60, 1 lb of Marris Otter, and 1 lb of unmalted barley. I would like to use all the honey- how much LME can I add without overwhelming my yeast? I planned on pitching US-05, rehydrated. Will this be able to handle a relatively big beer? Will I need to double pitch?

My LHBS has a pretty dreadful supply of liquid yeasts, and I want to brew this weekend, so I am limited to dry, non-specialty yeast.

Any thoughts are appreciated!

 

[commonsenseman]

Totally depends on how big of a batch you're planning to make. There's nothing wrong with adding honey to a beer, just keep in mind that the final fg will be lower than with malt only.


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[brewd00d]

I used 4 pounds of honey to a Kolsch and it ended up not being that good because i didnt use enough yeast. You need a lot of yeast, or a big starter to ferment out all the honey if you are going to use all three pounds. I have used 2 in the past with no problems and the taste and aroma was what i was looking for.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

Lets say I want to use all 3 lbs and am ok with double pitching. What is the max I can hit for my LME and still have a complete fermentation? I am fine with this taking some time to be ready to drink.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

If this helps... The LME is divided us 3lbs/6lbs. I was thinking I would use the 6 + 3 lbs of honey and either cascade or perle for the hops.

 

[brewd00d]

You can use all of your LME and 3lbs of honey, as long as you double your yeast as you said. I would also suggest, if its dry, yeast to rehydrate it. Its gonna be a big beer.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

Thanks, everyone.

If I only go 6 lbs + honey and rehydrate my yeast will I still need to double pitch?

 

[brewd00d]

i def would just for the 3lbs of honey.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

Cool. I want something relatively big that I can enjoy a couple of pints of and still be able to walk, you know?

 

[flars]

Try out this calculator for estimated OG and FG.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/extract-ogfg/

Look up the fermentability of honey, convert to pounds LME, and add as pounds of LME. Select the 'yeast alcohol tolerance' from Yeast Stats in the lower right hand side of the calculator page.

Good calculator for pitch rate once you have your estimated OG.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

Good luck with the brew.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

Thanks flars and breed00d. With something this big, is secondary necessary? I usually do single stage fermentation for 2-3 weeks and bottle condition.

 

[flars]

It is not a very complex recipe. Four weeks in the primary should do it if FG is hit within two weeks.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

Well that went as uneventful as any brew day could have been. Looks like this could be a great summer brew

 

[rodwha]

What did you end up doing?

I love brewing with honey, usually a wheat or blonde, as well as a hybrid.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

6 lbs of NB gold extract, 3 lbs clover honey (1.5 added at the last 15 min of the boil), .5 oz cascade 60 min, .5 oz mt hood 30, .5 oz mt hood 15 min. Pitched w one pack of US-05 and one pack Munton's brewers gold, rehydrated.

It was literally the simplest brew session since I started 5 gallon batches.

 

[rodwha]

You mentioned 1/2 of the honey added at 15 mins. When did you add the remainder?

Please post your results!

 

[mgonbrewlab]

Sorry- I added half at the start of the boil. My airlock has been bubbling like mad and the honey smell is very strong.

I did not get a chance to take an OG reading - those hydrometers just break too easy

 

[wbarber69]

I made a killer apa last summer using 3lbs organic unpasteurized honey. I added it to the fermenter before adding chilled wort. It came out so crisp and dry. It worked well with all the simcoe and Amarillo in it. I used a yeast starter with a basic neutral California yeast. It ate every bit of the honey no problem.

 

[rodwha]

Awesome!

Please report back on your final product.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

It is gonna be sooooooo hard waiting 7 to 8 weeks to drink this.

 

[rodwha]

Start brewing a few more to take your mind off of it!

 

[mgonbrewlab]

Not a bad idea, that. I am looking to start a batch of Graff but wanted to wait till cider is back in season

 

[mister704]

One of the best things I did after flubbing my recipe and putting .5 oz when I meant 5 oz of honey malt was in the secondary, I went and steeped my 4.5oz of honey malt in a gallon of water and chilled it down and added it into my secondary.

Beer came out AWESOME. I was honestly worried and almost didnt do it because I saw no one talking about ever trying this.

 

[wbarber69]

I've put it straight in the fermenter before with no problems. I did sanitize the jars first.

 

[rodwha]

I've put honey straight into the fermentor a week after fermentation began.

I'd be reluctant to wash the yeast just in case there was any wild yeast.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

So, I am going to have to bottle this early unless I want to have it sit 4 more weeks in the bucket (which would mean having to wait too long to start another batch ).

I want to recycle my yeast cake and repitch on it. NB's brickwarmer red calls for S-04- would a cake of S-05 and Muntons ale yeast be off character?

 

[rodwha]

If you added any raw honey to the fermentor it's possible that it can have a bit of wild yeast in there, and may not be what you'll want.

I doubt US-05 and Munton's will be anything like S-04. But it may still be good.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

I added half my honey at the start of my boil and the remainder in the last 15 minutes of my boil. I would think the 15 minutes would have been sufficient to kill any wild yeasts.

I guess I can pitch my 04 for my red and harvest this cake for something else. I have made stouts and a nice nut brown with US-05 and Muntons Gold seperately- maybe I can use them in combo for that.

I didn't prepare well enough to wash my yeast if I am going to bottle this afternoon, since I would need 24 hours to deoxygenate the water. Can I transfer the whole cake (with a small amt of wort) to a large boil sterilized mason jar, or am I just trying too hard to save $3.50?

 

[rodwha]

I'd think adding honey at flameout would be sufficient to kill any wild yeasts. You are certainly good there.

Why not boil it and cool it in the fridge to rid it of oxygen? Shouldn't take more than a few hours.

I'd think the yeast cake would be fine with a small layer of leftover beer sitting on it for a day or two. But I'm no expert in dealing with yeast.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

Interesting. For some reason I thought the water needed to boil and then sit for 24 hours. Maybe I can wash this cake, then, as I won't be starting another stout for at least 2 weeks

 

[rodwha]

Boil, yes. But then just cool to a reasonable temp.

 

[Calichusetts]

I have never heard of a wild yeast infection from honey. I used honey in over 50 batches and had no issues. I'm not saying it cant happen but where do these concerns come from? Maybe I need to search this site but do people really have issues with honey?

IMO, if you boil honey, there is no reason to use it. You are losing the flavor and aroma yet keeping simple and complex sugar; Just use sugar.

 

[wbarber69]

Wild yeast could be present if you don't boil. Which would affect your yeast cake if you intended to reuse it. Boiling doesn't take all the flavor and head retention out of the honey just most of it. I agree it's better suited for the fermenter. But it's hard to determine gravity that way. If I use commercial honey. I use it as an extract because it's already been processed. But raw and unpasteurized honey goes into the fermenter.

 

[rodwha]

I can see how it's possible. I don't concern myself with it though. But I would if I were washing the yeast just to be on the safe side.

 

[wbarber69]

Yeah I love the way honey comes out in my beers

 

[mgonbrewlab]

Bottling day! FG 1.009- holy crap. Smell in the fermenter us still a bit honey sweet and kinda "wild" so I am not going to risk trying to wash this cake. Hydro sample is thin, nice golden light color. Lawnmower beer for sure

 

[mgonbrewlab]

I guess I am impatient.

I was in the basement today and decided to check my bottles- lo and behold, my PETs were pretty fully hard. I threw a smaller bottle in the fridge and just took an early sample.

It looks like honey, it smells like honey, and tastes... Well, it doesn't quite taste like honey but it has just a bit of that honey sweetness. It is surprisingly smooth for how low it fermented- I would almost call it rich. Pretty strong, too- I had a little buzz going after finishing the glass.

No head or lacing yet to speak of, but it is way too soon to worry about those.

While this is by no means my favorite brew, it will definitely go on the rotation for summer beers. I am thinking next time I will try T-58 to see if I can bring out some other flavors to contrast the honey.

 

[rodwha]

I used to think I tastes something like a shot of honey in the glass with wheat beer poured on top from my first, which was Blue Moon's Honey Wheat. They quit making it for a few years.

I tried several times and many different things to get what I recalled. Blue Moon recently released it again, and so I picked some up and found that it tastes very much like mine. I'm obviously doing it right, but it doesn't taste just like honey, but does have a similar flavor.

It's certainly far from my favorite, but I certainly like it!

 

[skeletonkrew]

i dont have much experience with that yeast, but if you use that one, you should make a starter. Sounds like you have plenty of ingredients to make one,(LME, honey). You could always order some yeast online. You could even "over night" or "next day air " it if you need to brew soon. I have ordered yeast only twice recently , but have had no problems. Each time , i ordered wyeast. Those slap packs are awesome.

 

[rodwha]

T-58 is a dry yeast.