Brewing Science Degree

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I'm a 22 yr old who lives in Knoxville, TN, and I'm looking into getting a brewing/fermentation science degree. South College Knoxville( http://www.southcollegetn.edu/brewing/brewing.htm )offers a 9 month course to earn a brewing science degree. It looks like a great Course and the last quarter is actually spent at the Smokey Mountain Brewery ( http://www.smoky-mtn-brewery.com/ ) doing hands on work. I would love to take the course, but tuition is $17,000, and I'm still currently paying off old student loans from the college in Nashville that I graduated in 2012. So my Question is does anyone know of an online program that i could still earn the same degree but with a more reasonable tuition.
 
This isn't a degree, it's a certificate. What are you hoping it will do for you?

I'd be cautious about spending any money, to be honest. Very few employers are going to be particularly interested in an online certificate.
 
Legit online courses are made to be convenient, but have never claimed to be a cost effective alternative to in house class work. If it's through a major university, the price is usually the same or higher than there brick and motor classes. If not through a major university.....pass.
 
It looks like a great Course and the last quarter is actually spent at the Smokey Mountain Brewery ( http://www.smoky-mtn-brewery.com/ ) doing hands on work.

"Hands-on work" in a brewery is slopping mash tuns, and cleaning....and you want to PAY $17K to do that?

So, on top of scamming some poor kid with a worthless certificate in "brewing science" this brewery is getting some free labor out of them as well....niiicccce.
 
"Hands-on work" in a brewery is slopping mash tuns, and cleaning....and you want to PAY $17K to do that?

So, on top of scamming some poor kid with a worthless certificate in "brewing science" this brewery is getting some free labor out of them as well....niiicccce.

A local brewery (Diamond Bear) has a sign up for volunteers to help bottle once or twice a week. Consists of QC of labels and fill levels, as well as manually boxing and stacking pallets for 4-6 hours in an un air conditioned warehouse. For the effort you are awarded about a case of beer..... Stupid people nearly fight for the privilege to be picked. (waiting on a return email now - keep your fingers crossed for me) :D
 
The UC Davis route is the way to go for professional brew science jobs (in the US anyway). Heriot-Watt in Edinburgh, Scotland is the other top-tier option that's available in English. (Weihenstephaner outside of Munich if you are fluent in Germany is another great option.)

If you're just looking to make beer then there are plenty of other options but the placement rates aren't always great and the pay and work hours and perks for a brewer can be pretty terrible; owning and running a brewery is incredibly expensive, frought with risk, and expensive. -$1,000,000 in equipment to make $100,000 a year to continue reinvesting the profit back into the business for years upon years to maybe "hit it big" if you can get a competitive advantage.

If you're looking for the best bang-for-the-buck on the education/qualification side, I'd recommend taking the Institute of Brewing and Distillation (IBD) General Certificate exams (Brewing and optionally the packaging exam). -When you register for the exam (I think it was about 250 Euros when I took it) they email you a package of pretty fantastic PDFs for learning the basics of large brewery brewing theory. The exam and syllabus ARE slanted towards the British brewing tradition, though, so try to pickup some perspective from the German, Belgian, and modern American traditions from somewhere else. -Read the materials they send you cover-to-cover as soon as possible and then make flash cards on the learning objectives from the Sylabus document, then go through the Sylabus items and skip over any subjects that you feel comfortable with (probably a small percentage) and go back to the docs and review each section and make flash cards so that you can answer the objectives as open-ended questions in as much detail as possible. -The test is multiple choice so if you've memorized all the formulas and have learned the objective you should ROCK it and finish in record time.

After completing the General Certificate exams you should seek out a Brewery and a beer bar to volunteer at to get practical experience; be sure to explain that you've completed the General Cert exams and that you're looking for hands-on experience and for someone who is an IBD member who can "sponsor" your application for the Diploma in Brewing exam. Consider taking the Beer Steward exam from the Beer Cicerone program and the BJCP exam to further expand your beer knowledge in to serving and making beer while doing this.

Look into some short (days or weeks) and focused courses to further pad your "Beer resume" and finally pass all 3 IBD Diploma exams. (It IS possible to take all 3 together but "safer" / easier to take them one at a time spread out 6 months apart.)

-If you have to keep a normal non-beery job in all of this take your time other wise do double duty and get whatever beer industry-related job you can in the mean time that will pay your basic bills.


The IBD Cert obtained through self study, combined with practical experience is IMHO, the best way to get a professional brewery job for the least $$.


[Edit] The Siebel course is also highly rated and focuses on practical knowledge and experience, BUT good luck getting admitted and actually in the program anytime soon and get ready to have a lighter wallet for a great many years. Such an expensive course for a job that pays so poorly; BUT the placement rates from what I can see out of the Siebel program are much better than some of the new online-only shorter programs and you'd certainly have career growth opportunities through the Siebel program and you'd have more career options than just brewer (production manager), etc... (Especially if you pursue the IBD certs and want to go work for a mega brewery in a specialized area.)

The Siebel connections and "business of brewing" side of the Siebel program are, IMHO among the most valuable parts and you CAN pursue those as separate individual courses "ala cart", too.


Adam
 
It's NOT online at all. It's one of the best decisions I've made in my life, and I left a good job to do this. Its very legit and very challenging. Go for it! It won't cost you 17K since you've already had some education and core college courses.

I haven't cleaned a single mash tun yet (but that wouldn't be so bad either) Brewers clean kegs and mashtuns too and it's all things you should know how to do as a brewer anyway.
 
It's NOT online at all. It's one of the best decisions I've made in my life, and I left a good job to do this. Its very legit and very challenging. Go for it! It won't cost you 17K since you've already had some education and core college courses.

I haven't cleaned a single mash tun yet (but that wouldn't be so bad either) Brewers clean kegs and mashtuns too and it's all things you should know how to do as a brewer anyway.

So have you landed a brewing job as a result of this credential/schooling? How much did it cost you?
 
owning and running a brewery is incredibly expensive, frought with risk, and expensive. -$1,000,000 in equipment to make $100,000 a year to continue reinvesting the profit back into the business for years upon years to maybe "hit it big" if you can get a competitive advantage.

Don't mean to start a debate or get off topic but I couldn't disagree more with all of that.
 
Don't forget Oregon State University Fermentation Science degree. An equivalent education to UC Davis at more than half the price.
 
owning and running a brewery is incredibly expensive, frought with risk, and expensive. -$1,000,000 in equipment to make $100,000 a year to continue reinvesting the profit back into the business for years upon years to maybe "hit it big" if you can get a competitive advantage.

Don't mean to start a debate or get off topic but I couldn't disagree more with all of that.

Agreed that $1M seems a rather small capital investment and expecting 10% return is probably unrealistic (if it were realistic I'd invest in more breweries!) but I'd be curious as to your specific thoughts here.
 
ajdelange said:
Agreed that $1M seems a rather small capital investment and expecting 10% return is probably unrealistic (if it were realistic I'd invest in more breweries!) but I'd be curious as to your specific thoughts here.

I don't want to hijack this thread. I have a thread on going pro and currently own a small 3bbl nano and none of those numbers or assumptions are reality. I would be happy to talk about it in that thread but don't want to hijack this thread.
 
I don't want to hijack this thread. I have a thread on going pro and currently own a small 3bbl nano and none of those numbers or assumptions are reality. I would be happy to talk about it in that thread but don't want to hijack this thread.

Did you keep your day job or is the nano your only source of income?
-Partner income?

How many BBL did you produce last year? -Profit? What do you pay yourself? -Do you pay yourself at all?


I know a number of people who run nanos; a couple who now work 80 - 90 hours a day, they both work their normal day jobs and run the nano at night; they started off with a SABCO system (yes, I know) and within 2 months upgraded to a 3BBL nano with a number of 7 BBL fermenters and still work their day jobs; they're constantly tired and ragged and unsure of whether it was "worth it". I have another friend who is only the silent 3rd partner in a brewery while working her day job and also runs the bar; puts in about 60 hours a week and doesn't get to brew at all and will sell her shares in the brewery in a heartbeat if the opportunity arises. (I personally know a TON of people who have started beery ventures of various types and only two who are legitimately glad that they did it 3 years later and were able to both start working at the brewery full time although they put in way more hours than before for way less income; they're single so it works for them.)

A family can't survive in medium expensive parts of the country on a single nanobrewer income alone; the nano brewer business is about scaling up via finding outside funding or close OR you have what amounts to a small restaurant with some extra profit coming from the nano. It's about getting your legs under you in this whole brewing thing with less risk; getting more confidence in your own abilities and increasing other's confidence in your abilities so you can attract funding to get a reasonable sized brewery that can allow someone to live. (-Skipping the nano stage and going straight to micro with investors just gets you to micro size and income and ownership % faster.)


-The OP didn't actually specify whether he was looking for the risk of owning a brewery vs. whether he was looking to brew, either. Technically if you're going to own a micro or nano you don't need any formalized brewing education at all, just jump in and start making beer. If you're going to spend the money on education, you should know what you're getting; the idea of "get an education and get a good paying job" is a modern myth that many have learned the hard way over the past few years; almost no industry is a pure exception to the rule and with the huge number of for-profit universities and startup and online "brewing schools" that have been popping up people REALLY need to think about what they're getting for their money; think about what they're actually buying (and it's generally nothing like the dream that they think they're buying). -I don't say this as someone who is bitter because of my own circumstances; I skipped out on school and ended up in the right place at the right time and by dumb luck have been handed incredible job after incredible job, I say it because I have seen too many people burned by false dreams like these; I've seen it SPECIFICALLY from some of the online brew programs and I've investigated every one of these programs and attended a number of them.

Understand what you're actually getting and weigh it against what it costs, then analyze what it MIGHT get you and MIGHT cost you and take a realistic look at likelihood from actual examples; its pure Risk Management and its sorely needed in brewing right now. -You don't get the dream just because you paid the tuition; you just get the classes and whatever connections and placement opportunities they choose to give you. Owning your own brewery is very unlikely to make you rich (quite the opposite) and working at one as a brewer certainly might be way worse than your current job for less pay and less hours at home; you need to fully consider both sides.



Adam
 
Like i said, I'm not going to hijack this thread other than to say I think a fair amount of that is not my experience at all. Maybe my situation, and a ton of others I know here is SE Mass are some sort of exception but none of the ones I know of line up with how you've described it.
 
It's been my observation that luck, for some reason, seems to bestow her favors on capable, hard working people while ignoring the rest.

I tend to take it more as a "to the victor go the spoils (and history)" kind of issue. When you happen to have luck bestowing said favors and you say that it's because of your hard work people just kinda have to take your word for it; you can write history as you wish from that place.

In my experience every promotion I get, I do slightly less actual work and I know tons of people who have worked way harder than me only to get shafted by macro trends or because they don't have experience (have to have experience to get a job to get experience in a down economy) or because they're not good at interviews, etc...


Hard work is certainly one item that helps but it's one of a number of items, some of which you don't have a lot of control over.

(Now I've completely hijacked the thread; sorry to the OP in advance....)


Adam
 
So to get back on topic. You should give the South College program a look for sure. I have been researching the whole brew school thing for some time and the truth is that (this day in age) if you want to get in to the industry and make a decent wage and excel in your field without having a million dollars to open a brewery you need to go through one of the programs that are out there. It's the future of the brewery workforce. Sure, you can probably spend 5 years working your way up the brewery ranks starting out scrubbing overnight yeast blowoff from the floors and cleaning kegs in the evenings. That is if you can convince a brewery to let you in their circle. That method of entering the industry is also part of the reason why there are so many garbage breweries floating around the market today. Thankfully times are changing and the business is getting more and more competitive. With all that being said, you are going to run in to a number of fantastic brewers that haven't been through one of the programs but there are a far more great brewers who have. I wouldn't recommend one of the online courses but some people do like them obviously. I know the brew master at Yazoo went through the american brewers guild but not sure if it was the online version or not.

I was a technician/electrician while homebrewing for 4-5 years and got really tired of not hearing back from my brewery application submissions. So now I'm in Knoxville and we finished the first half of the brewing program last week. As mentioned previously, this has definitely been the best thing that I have done. I feel like I knew a **** load about brewing and have learned a bunch of stuff you never think that you would even need to know. They have some really great instructors and a world of other various resources connections to be made. As far as the cost goes, you can go through the program for 12-13 k if you have the prerequisites taken care of. They are signing people up for the next round and I foresee the tuition costs going up in the near future. So I recommend you contact them if you are serious about getting in to the industry.
 
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