Brewing not fun anymore?

[fuelish]

The only thing I do brew related with friends is drink....I brew alone and prefer it that way, but....that's just me....allows me to focus on the task at hand much better.

 

[PrinceOfThePoint]

One reason you may have not hit your volume is because of the wort chiller, the first couple times I used one I was 1/4 to 1/2 gallon below my target volume and finally attributed it to cooling shrinkage. Now I try to end the boil with 1/2 gallon more than my target volume to account for it.

Just to be clear, your volume discrepancies are not a result of chilling your wort. The difference in solution volume between boiling wort and chilled wort is not noticeable. Chances are you just underestimate your boil off rate

 

[tellyho]

Every time I brew with a friend it takes 1 1/2 times as long. Brew day is normally 4 hrs, but reliably 6 hrs when I'm distracted (and/or drunk!). I try to schedule simple beers when I brew with a friend.

Even though brew day felt disorganized, your beer will probably still be tasty. I have yet to brew a terrible beer in many disappointing brew sessions. I always make mistakes, just try not to make the same one twice.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Just to be clear, your volume discrepancies are not a result of chilling your wort. The difference in solution volume between boiling wort and chilled wort is not noticeable. Chances are you just underestimate your boil off rate

Actually it's pretty noticeable. There's about a 4% volume loss between boiling and pitching/fermentation temp. That means in a 5.5 gallon batch, you're losing ~a little less than 0.25 gallons.

And it does factor in to gravity as well, however, that's why gravity readings are corrected for temperature. If you're correcting for temperature, the volume loss from chilling is irrelevant.

What IS irrelvant to gravity is the actual volume lost to your chiller.

Easy trick in BeerSmith is to set all loss values (trub loss, chiller loss, kettle loss, etc) to zero, and assume that batch size is the actual post-boil volume, not the fermenter volume. BeerSmith makes a distinction between mash efficiency (the extraction from grains, which determines gravity at post-boil volume) and brewhouse efficiency, which is how little sweet wort is wasted by the brewhouse. The first doesn't count trub loss, tubing loss, chiller loss, and actual fermenter volume, but the second does. And if the equipment settings in BeerSmith aren't absolutely perfect, the second figures can really screw up the math. It's easy to just do that part in your head, and let BeerSmith worry about the rest (ie, zero out all the losses so that its calculated mash efficiency and brewhouse efficiency are the same thing).

 

[David_Trucks]

Actually it's pretty noticeable. There's about a 4% volume loss between boiling and pitching/fermentation temp. That means in a 5.5 gallon batch, you're losing ~a little less than 0.25 gallons.



And it does factor in to gravity as well, however, that's why gravity readings are corrected for temperature. If you're correcting for temperature, the volume loss from chilling is irrelevant.



What IS irrelvant to gravity is the actual volume lost to your chiller.



Easy trick in BeerSmith is to set all loss values (trub loss, chiller loss, kettle loss, etc) to zero, and assume that batch size is the actual post-boil volume, not the fermenter volume. BeerSmith makes a distinction between mash efficiency (the extraction from grains, which determines gravity at post-boil volume) and brewhouse efficiency, which is how little sweet wort is wasted by the brewhouse. The first doesn't count trub loss, tubing loss, chiller loss, and actual fermenter volume, but the second does. And if the equipment settings in BeerSmith aren't absolutely perfect, the second figures can really screw up the math. It's easy to just do that part in your head, and let BeerSmith worry about the rest (ie, zero out all the losses so that its calculated mash efficiency and brewhouse efficiency are the same thing).

Wait, hold the phone. I think that's the answer! We didn't fully chill the wort before using the hydrometer for that small batch. Normally we would have cooled it to pitching temp first, but this time we didn't because I wasn't planning to pitch the yeast until the next day.

So, how do correct for temp? It was probably around 100 degrees maybe? That's just a 2 days later guess. The "OG" at around that temp was 1.048.

 

[David_Trucks]

Ok, so I just answered my own question (I think). I used Brewers friend and put in conservative numbers to get an OG of 1.052. I'm not sure what the temp was when we checked it, but I'm confident it's at least that. And now my ego is growing again... Uh oh.

Thanks everyone and especially Qurumph!

 

[Qhrumphf]

Wait, hold the phone. I think that's the answer! We didn't fully chill the wort before using the hydrometer for that small batch. Normally we would have cooled it to pitching temp first, but this time we didn't because I wasn't planning to pitch the yeast until the next day.

So, how do correct for temp? It was probably around 100 degrees maybe? That's just a 2 days later guess. The "OG" at around that temp was 1.048.

For a hydrometer calibrated at 15C/59F or 15.5C/60F, you should add about 6 points. (for 1.054). For a hydrometer calibrated at 20C/68F, you should add about 5 points (for 1.053).

 

[Weezy]

When I get bored of brewing, I kick the neighbor's cat. It's my reset button.

 

[TechyDork]

Wait, hold the phone. I think that's the answer! We didn't fully chill the wort before using the hydrometer for that small batch. Normally we would have cooled it to pitching temp first, but this time we didn't because I wasn't planning to pitch the yeast until the next day.

So, how do correct for temp? It was probably around 100 degrees maybe? That's just a 2 days later guess. The "OG" at around that temp was 1.048.

There are a lot of calculators that will adjust the reading for you. i used this one and at 100f your reading adjusts to 1.054. Beesmith on my phone also gave 1.054 as the adjusted reading.

**My page hadn't refreshed, looks like everyone else beat me to it. **

 

[PrinceOfThePoint]

Actually it's pretty noticeable. There's about a 4% volume loss between boiling and pitching/fermentation temp. That means in a 5.5 gallon batch, you're losing ~a little less than 0.25 gallons.

This is indeed correct, about a 4% volume change from boiling to pitch temp. Thanks for catching me being lazy

Of course the OP should be clear this is just the nature of cooling, and the wort will shrink a little regardless of whether the chiller was used!

And as Qhrumpf pointed out gravity measurements need to be normalized if they are not at the standard temperature

 

[David_Trucks]

This is indeed correct, about a 4% volume change from boiling to pitch temp. Thanks for catching me being lazy



Of course the OP should be clear this is just the nature of cooling, and the wort will shrink a little regardless of whether the chiller was used!



And as Qhrumpf pointed out gravity measurements need to be normalized if they are not at the standard temperature

Yes, I am aware of the uh - shrinkage - and I try to get more wort to correct for this, I just expected it to shrink after fermentation, not before, like this one did.

I understood that people were saying the chiller took up space, causing it to seem like there was less wort. That's why I pointed out that the chiller wasn't used on this batch, but the other one.

 

[Psylocide]

Brewing sucks, it's tedious work.

Formulating recipes is fun, seeing how they turn out is a lot better... the physical act of brewing it up, I could do without.

Come at me.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Brewing sucks, it's tedious work.

Formulating recipes is fun, seeing how they turn out is a lot better... the physical act of brewing it up, I could do without.

Come at me.

Can't argue.

After nearly 10 years, brewing isn't "fun". Brewing is work.

It's rewarding work. It's great to put in some hours and end up with 10 gallons of delicious beer that I can say is mine, from start to finish. I'm not going to stop brewing by any means.

But "fun"? Maybe when I've got buddies over and I'm having a few beers and a cigar, that's enjoyable. But in my current situation, with young kids, where I start my brew "day" at ~8 PM, and push through to 1 AM or later to get wort in the fermenter, it's not exactly "fun".

Think of it like gardening. Gardening is backbreaking labor, it's dirty, hot, sweaty stuff. But the result is that you nurture a seed or sapling into something beautiful that impresses your friends and neighbors.

That's brewing.

 

[RM-MN]

Can't argue.

After nearly 10 years, brewing isn't "fun". Brewing is work.

It's rewarding work. It's great to put in some hours and end up with 10 gallons of delicious beer that I can say is mine, from start to finish. I'm not going to stop brewing by any means.

But "fun"? Maybe when I've got buddies over and I'm having a few beers and a cigar, that's enjoyable. But in my current situation, with young kids, where I start my brew "day" at ~8 PM, and push through to 1 AM or later to get wort in the fermenter, it's not exactly "fun".

Think of it like gardening. Gardening is backbreaking labor, it's dirty, hot, sweaty stuff. But the result is that you nurture a seed or sapling into something beautiful that impresses your friends and neighbors.

That's brewing.

Maybe you're doing it wrong? I don't have the kids to get in the way but I'll print out my recipe at 7 in the morning, bring my equipment and grains up from the basement and start heating the water. I'll only be doing a 2 1/2 gallon batch because I'm brewing on my kitchen stove but had I a more powerful burner I would brew outside and do a larger batch, the limitations of the kitchen stove burner seems to be the deciding factor on the size of batch and the weather decides if I can brew outside or not. While my water is heating I weigh and mill the grain. I'd do BIAB and when the water is at strike temp, all my grains are milled so all I have to do is drop the bag into the pot and stir in the grains. 30 minutes to mash (or less if the grains are milled fine) and I have the heat turned on again on the way to boil as I sparge since the pot I use on the stove is too small for full volume. How long to boil? I've tried 30 minutes without DMS that I notice but I never use Pilsener malt either. At the end of the 30 minutes I turn off the heat, put the lid on the pot, and set it outside to cool. That can take anywhere from 4 to 8 hours or even more but I don't care since I don't have to be there to watch it. When it gets to pitching temp or below I dump it into the fermenter and pitch the yeast, then clean out the pot and put it away. Total time from equipment out to the pot outside to chill, 2 hours and 10 minutes. Another 5 when the wort if cooled to pitch the yeast and clean the pot.

 

[thaymond]

or what you need to do is find a brewing partner that you're teaching! then he has no reason to disagree with you!

i'm gonna assume a brewing partner is just like every other relationship. sometimes you're gonna disagree. the best thing is just to communicate about it, and both get to an understanding of each others' sides and be able to move on.

I agree here. I have a buddy that will help out, wants to learn the ropes, so I'll have him do all the work with guidance. He's nearly independent now with what he should do, so I am able to count on him for certain fun things about brewing, and I'll take over the chore work of cleaning. It's still all my recipe, ingredients, etc. I will also get his opinion on what we should make. The only one I denied was a blueberry wheat.

With some other friends who are less knowledgeable, it turns out to be a lot of work because it turns into a "drink all the beer!" night, which leads to mistakes. I'd say have a purpose for the brew partner so that it doesn't turn out in a disagreement.

Plus, when I upgrade equipment, I'll have a good home for the hand-me-downs!

 

[David_Trucks]

Maybe you're doing it wrong? I don't have the kids to get in the way but I'll print out my recipe at 7 in the morning, bring my equipment and grains up from the basement and start heating the water. I'll only be doing a 2 1/2 gallon batch because I'm brewing on my kitchen stove but had I a more powerful burner I would brew outside and do a larger batch, the limitations of the kitchen stove burner seems to be the deciding factor on the size of batch and the weather decides if I can brew outside or not. While my water is heating I weigh and mill the grain. I'd do BIAB and when the water is at strike temp, all my grains are milled so all I have to do is drop the bag into the pot and stir in the grains. 30 minutes to mash (or less if the grains are milled fine) and I have the heat turned on again on the way to boil as I sparge since the pot I use on the stove is too small for full volume. How long to boil? I've tried 30 minutes without DMS that I notice but I never use Pilsener malt either. At the end of the 30 minutes I turn off the heat, put the lid on the pot, and set it outside to cool. That can take anywhere from 4 to 8 hours or even more but I don't care since I don't have to be there to watch it. When it gets to pitching temp or below I dump it into the fermenter and pitch the yeast, then clean out the pot and put it away. Total time from equipment out to the pot outside to chill, 2 hours and 10 minutes. Another 5 when the wort if cooled to pitch the yeast and clean the pot.

See this is the model I need to follow.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Maybe you're doing it wrong? I don't have the kids to get in the way but I'll print out my recipe at 7 in the morning, bring my equipment and grains up from the basement and start heating the water. I'll only be doing a 2 1/2 gallon batch because I'm brewing on my kitchen stove but had I a more powerful burner I would brew outside and do a larger batch, the limitations of the kitchen stove burner seems to be the deciding factor on the size of batch and the weather decides if I can brew outside or not.

Everyone who drinks my beer thinks I'm doing it right

I do 10 gallon batches, so right there, heating, sparging and cooling take longer. I do 60 minute mashes and 90 minute boils and sometimes a hot hop whirlpool before cooling depending on beer style.

I don't mind the time, honestly. It's "me time". I'm just saying it's not fun. It's still worthwhile and still satisfying.

 

[BrewHound]

My brewing kind of became a chore a few years ago and I started to brew less. I'm not sure exactly how it happened but I started reading about cooking with beer and it really got me back in the game. I also planted some hop vines on one side if the vegetable garden and it's lots of fun to watch those grow knowing where they're headed! Now I jones if I'm not brewing at least every few weeks. And while I sometimes brew with my wife or a friend, it's often "me time".