Brewing Classic Ale Styles *as* Lager

[McKnuckle]

I see a lot of discussion about the opposite approach - how to brew quasi-lagers using neutral ale yeast. But how about brewing ale styles where everything is in line with tradition except use of a lager fermentation regimen?

My thought is that it will focus on the malt and hops ingredients, highlighting them in a pure way, allowing me to really understand what they contribute. You might ask, why not just pick traditional lager styles that are similar to certain ales and brew those? And I'd say, because that's not the point of what I'm after. I can do that, too.

I'm especially interested in British styles like bitters, stout, brown ales... APA, IPA... even clearly yeast-dominated styles such as Belgians. Of course I realize that the traditional ale personality will not be the same if they are brewed as lagers. I can easily brew them as ales, and I have. Again, that's not the point.

So to kick things off, I've got two batches going:

An English Northern "nut" brown lager
An American India Lager with Mosaic hops

I just kegged the nut brown and even on first blush, I love the way the roasted malts taste super clean and focused, with no fruity yeast attributes. I am looking forward to doing more styles! Anyone else have some experience in this area?

 

[dmtaylor]

I think this is an interesting idea. People try it from time to time, often with great results. Whether it makes a cleaner crisper beer depends really on the skill of the brewer. You could run into more problems with diacetyl and sulfur if you don't treat the yeast right and give it the time it needs to clean up after itself. But given a good brewer, this should yield some tasty results. Go for it.

 

[Aristotelian]

So, just to be clear, you are using a traditional ale grain bill with a lager yeast, but without lagering? Just setting aside the grain bills (which can have lots of variation for either style), it seems you are essentially talking about brewing lagers without going through the lager process. There are a few threads about "lager without lagering".

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=405702
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=366228
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=282674

Sounds like it could be an interesting experiment. You could end up with an "aleish lager" as opposed to a "lagerish ale" like Kolsch/Altbier.

 

[McKnuckle]

To be clear, I am using a traditional ale grain/hops bill and fermenting with lager yeast, using lagering techniques. I am talking about brewing lagers whose ingredients (save the yeast) match ale styles.

 

[chickypad]

I think you will make good beers with your plan and it sounds like fun if you generally like lager styles. The problem is there are some styles that I would say are not just yeast dominant, but rather absolutely defined by the yeast. You can take a Belgian grainbill, but fermented without a Belgian yeast it's likely it will just come out as a continental lager that is closest in style. Same thing with a German hefeweizen - without the German yeast it's going to pretty much be an American style wheat beer. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it!

 

[estricklin]

I've brewed many of the ale styles with lager yeast, including Irish Red, Stout, Porter, IPA, Pale Ale, and some fruit beers. I tend to like the results. I have fermented them anywhere from 50-67F. I cold condition all of my beers before bottling/kegging, no voo doo to lagering.

I think you will be pleased with more of the results, if your too disappointed just ship it to me for disposal.

 

[PGEduardo]

Have you split a batch yet - one with chico strain and another with a lager strain? If you can't pick a clear winner, then maybe all the lagering effort/time isn't worth it for that style...

 

[McKnuckle]

I have not split anything yet. I just started doing this.

However it's interesting to notice the clean taste of the nut brown lager I brewed, because it helps me zero in on the malt bill... and the next step could be to match it with an ale yeast or two and brew it traditionally. Sometimes the malt/hops/yeast get muddled in ale styles, and I'm really not sure what I'm tasting, or what I might alter to better approach what I imagined.

But that's another story I suppose.

I use the now-famous quick lager method espoused on Brulosophy.com. My lagers are typically in the serving keg within 2 weeks, and are tasting pretty good right away (much better and lagerrific within a couple months of course).

 

[slym2none]

I know for a fact someone has done this to BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde, 'cos I asked.