Brewing a Saison

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ChuckD123

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It will be an all grain batch. First saison. Love the sytle from a consumption perspective. What things should I know going in before I brew one. Any key tips for a novice?
 
In Fresno Ca, big temp variations. Right now it might as well be April its 70 degrees, but two weeks fron now it could be 29.. Will be fermenting in doors. How warm? Above 70 F?
 
I'd say so. Might wrap the fermenter in a blanket, even. It'll turn out good anywhere between 67 and 94 (approximately) depending on yeast used, with the warmer temps being more flavorful.
 
The warmer temps are needed to unlock and heighten those great saison phenols and spice elements. I would say your sweet spot would be in the low 80s.

Good luck with it!

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A lot depends on the yeast you use. Some like it real hot to work and others work at lower temps. For example 3724 likes it real hot, like 85-90 degree hot. You can do this with a big cooler or tub of water and an aquarium heater.

Other saison yeasts are not as temp sensitive. You can try 3711 and get good results at the temps you mentioned
 
the guys at SARA in capitola are making incredible saisons. supposedly they use the french saison yeast as their base and throw in various other cultures toward the end of of fermentation.

you don't have to add any other yeast or brett, of course, but the french saison yeast is supposed to be easier to handle than the dupont strain.
 
I haven't worked w/ the Dupont strain, but obviously it has the reputation of being a royal PITA. Always had great results w/ the French Saison strain though, so I'd have to strongly recommend it.
 
Right on. Dupont strain is reported to be difficult. Was leaning away from that one. Perhaps the French strain is worth more consideration. Thanks.
 
I've used the dupont strain around 78 degrees and got a real nice flavor from it. I had no trouble with the ferment at a gravity of 1.046. I didn't really check it until I bottled after it had been sitting for a month, but it got down to 1.010. Flavors improved steadily in the bottle until I ran out around six months later.
 
I use the WLP Saison III and usually ferment for the first two days at 65 degrees and then slowly ramp up. I add about 1-pound of sugar, but I wait until the third day of fermentation (boil it for 15-mins and cool it) before adding to the fermentor. The other recommendations is to keep your grain bill simple, mostly pilsner malt. Mash in the high 140s and mash for at least an hour, maybe 90-mins. It helps to do a full 90-minute boil to drive off DMS from the pilsner malt. I think the citra hops go really well with this yeast, but citra is pretty good in anything. If you want a recipe, I would be happy to post it.
 
Would love to see you recipe. Gathering as much intel as i can before brew day. Thanks!
 
I used the Saisoon buffoon recipe from Radical Brewing.
5.5 lb pilsner malt
2.5 lb munich malt
1 lb wheat malt
1 lb panella
1 oz Northern brewer 60 min
1.5 oz saaz 30 min
2.0 oz east kent goldings, .67 oz coriander, zest of one orange and 1/4 grapefruit, 1 gram grains of paradise 5 min.
My og came out much lower than it should at 75% efficiency thanks to my lhbs's crush size. Had to quit going there and start ordering online.
I've also made the same recipe with slightly less hops and 32oz POM and .5 pound dried elderberries added. The idea was to create a winy tasting saison. It was a little too winy. I'll probably drop the elderberries and use 16oz POM next time.
 
Thanks for recipe. The POM/elderberry idea is interesting. Very creative. Was thinking about adding some lavender or sage to the recipe for some herbieness. Still just a thought at this point thoufh.
 
I don't to discount anyone else's advice, but I would brew a batch without spices first. I find the yeast adds plenty of spice notes.
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Agreed. I'm a big believer in keeping things as simple as possible.

Honestly you'll make a fantastic beer w/ just 100% Pils and Saison yeast. I personally hop them around .75-1 bittering/gravity units (from what I understand, Saison was fairly hoppy historically), but that part's totally up to you.
 
So, I'm new to saison. Can I use pale malt to sub pilsner?

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drumuglyknuckles said:
So, I'm new to saison. Can I use pale malt to sub pilsner?

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Saisons are a pretty loose style, so yes you can use pale malt and it will work. I did a Saison with Belgian Pale and some Munich and it came out great.

Mash low and long to get it very fermentable and you are good to go.
 
I have a Saison with 3711 ready to bottle in my garage as we speak. I pitched at 68 F, let it rise to 75 over the next 24 hours then let it go at 75 for a week. Great smell and flavor. One thing to be aware of with 3711 is that it attenuates very dry. The beer doesn't taste dry, as the yeast seems to do something to the mouthfeel that counteracts. It took my 1.053 down to 1.002. No surprises from this critter, just a reliable attenuator.
 
So is it the yeast that defines a saison?
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Definitely. I recently tried out Danstar's Belle Saison - and loved it. Maybe second to 3711 in flavor, different, but nice. Spicy and estery and took a 1.076 OG down to 1.008 at 70F with no problems. It's a dry yeast so more convenient to store, and I didn't have to baby it like the Dupont. That and 3711 are pretty forgiving - but let the yeast do it's thing... if it seems done, wait a week and check again. I tend to give an additional week or two past my normal 2 week primary - last one went 3 weeks extra (I got busy) and dropped another 3 points.

As to the Pils malts - I do believe the malt backbone needs to be solid, even though the yeast and hops will dominate the flavor and aroma. If you use domestic 2-row, maybe add a tiny bit of belgian aromatic. I tend to toss in a little bit of CaraMunich or CaraVienne for color. I use about 5% wheat or rye as well - rye seems to add a peppery note. Also I like to mash long and low (90 minutes at 144F) and then mash out, especially for a high gravity saison. Have to be careful though - it can get thin and watery, so mash out if possible. I would think 152-150 for a single infusion works well. My favorite saisons are bone dry and a bit puckery.

If you add a bit of sugar, wait until high krausen to add, and depending on the amount, perhaps do two staggered additions. This should help encourage the yeast to chow on the maltose first...

Now I need a glass of saison...
 
I just thought I'd try 2 row cause I have a ton. What do you think if I added a bit of Special B? I like the wheat and rye idea

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I have used Special B in a strong saison, but lightly. I get raisin, date and caramel from it, so maybe less than 5%, or just enough for color and to replace other caramels/crystals.
 
I like White labs Saison II. It's a beast and doesn't mind the cold. I've got two beers going right now with this yeast. Both pitched from the same yeast cake. Both were chugging away within 24 hrs - at 58 F. I'm brewing tomorrow and will use more of the same yeast cake.

Plenty of spice at these temperature, well, at least in the low 60's I've used it at before. I was going to put the first batch in a water bath as I thought it might be a bit too cold. Nope, at least as far as activity, we'll see what kind of flavor I get. I'm going to move the oldest to a new room in the upper 60's for it to finish out. This yeast has no problem dropping a beer down to 1.006, even fermented in the mid 60's, and I find is lends a little sweetness to the beer, in spite of the low FG

I should note that I like "Belgian" flavors, but not when they get real strong. I still like to taste the malt and hops
 
pjj2ba said:
I like White labs Saison II. It's a beast and doesn't mind the cold. I've got two beers going right now with this yeast. Both pitched from the same yeast cake. Both were chugging away within 24 hrs - at 58 F. I'm brewing tomorrow and will use more of the same yeast cake.

Plenty of spice at these temperature, well, at least in the low 60's I've used it at before. I was going to put the first batch in a water bath as I thought it might be a bit too cold. Nope, at least as far as activity, we'll see what kind of flavor I get. I'm going to move the oldest to a new room in the upper 60's for it to finish out. This yeast has no problem dropping a beer down to 1.006, even fermented in the mid 60's, and I find is lends a little sweetness to the beer, in spite of the low FG

I should note that I like "Belgian" flavors, but not when they get real strong. I still like to taste the malt and hops
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I think this answered my question but I want to double check. I want to make a Saison/Farmhouse but my house this time of year is abou 60-68 degrees, what yeast strain is going to be best for me and still provide that funky awesome saison flavor?
 
jhart94949 said:
I think this answered my question but I want to double check. I want to make a Saison/Farmhouse but my house this time of year is abou 60-68 degrees, what yeast strain is going to be best for me and still provide that funky awesome saison flavor?
Click to expand...

I use the WLP Saison III. I usually start fermenting at 64 for two days. I then boil my sugar addition and add it. I then let it free rise with a blanket wrapped around it. If it is really cold I wrap the fermenter in an electric blanket and then the regular blanket around that. I try to raise the temp slowly and settle around 74. I get very good results.

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jhart94949 said:
I think this answered my question but I want to double check. I want to make a Saison/Farmhouse but my house this time of year is abou 60-68 degrees, what yeast strain is going to be best for me and still provide that funky awesome saison flavor?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say the flavors from 566 (Saison II) fermented cold are funky, but they certainly are quite spicy and have the classic Belgian notes. I haven't tried any other saison strains this cold.
 
I cool down to about 64* until fermentation starts up and let it tick up slowly on it's own to 74-75* and I've had great success with my Saison yeast, matter of fact I have my Honey Nelson Saison going now. I plan to ramp up to 78* in a few more days until it finishes. The longer mash and 80-90 min hard boil adds to the character as well as dimishes DMS flavors to the body. I had a really quick cold break as well with fermentations usually starting wihtin 3-4hrs. Instead of Candi Sugar, I use Honey at the last 1-2 minutes to knockout. Either sugar or the honey will help add crispness and dryness to the character.
 
I am making a Nelson Saison as well, the recipe calls for 1lb of table sugar, when should I add this??? And is there a better substitute than regular table sugar?
 
jhart94949 said:
I am making a Nelson Saison as well, the recipe calls for 1lb of table sugar, when should I add this??? And is there a better substitute than regular table sugar?
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So many variables. I'd use a good cane sugar, add just enough water and boil til it's like a syrup and then add to the last 5-10 min of the boil to retain the sweetness and dryness that the sugar character will add to it. The longer you boil it for the less residual sweetness in proportion to the character. Some people will argue and say to let fermentation take off, but I don't like removing my carboy bung til it's done in the primary, so I add at the very end of the boil for sanitation purposes as well.
 
jhart94949 said:
I am making a Nelson Saison as well, the recipe calls for 1lb of table sugar, when should I add this??? And is there a better substitute than regular table sugar?
Click to expand...

I always add my sugar after two days. The reason for this is that the yeast self-selects during the growth phase to produce the enzymes needed to break down maltose (malt sugar). The yeast can always go back to simple sugar. I let them get through their growth phase on maltose. I then add the sugar by boiling enough water with the sugar so that it boils for 15-mins. I then cool it, but just enough to be able add to the fermenter.

Fermentation will then blast off with a fury. I let my ferment free rise at this point which is another good reason to wait. The heat of the re-invigorated fermentation will allow the temp to ramp pretty easily.

I found my saisons finished with a lower final gravity using this technique. However, there are a lot of variables and you will most likely still come out fine either way. Sometimes simpler is better and adding to the kettle is a lot easier.
 

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