Brewing a Saison

[ChuckD123]

It will be an all grain batch. First saison. Love the sytle from a consumption perspective. What things should I know going in before I brew one. Any key tips for a novice?

 

[skunkfunk]

Ferment warm. What's the temperature where you ferment this time of year?

 

[ChuckD123]

In Fresno Ca, big temp variations. Right now it might as well be April its 70 degrees, but two weeks fron now it could be 29.. Will be fermenting in doors. How warm? Above 70 F?

 

[skunkfunk]

I'd say so. Might wrap the fermenter in a blanket, even. It'll turn out good anywhere between 67 and 94 (approximately) depending on yeast used, with the warmer temps being more flavorful.

 

[ChuckD123]

Sweet. Thanks Skunk. I will keep that in mind

 

[JohnnyO]

The warmer temps are needed to unlock and heighten those great saison phenols and spice elements. I would say your sweet spot would be in the low 80s.

Good luck with it!

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[beergolf]

A lot depends on the yeast you use. Some like it real hot to work and others work at lower temps. For example 3724 likes it real hot, like 85-90 degree hot. You can do this with a big cooler or tub of water and an aquarium heater.

Other saison yeasts are not as temp sensitive. You can try 3711 and get good results at the temps you mentioned

 

[ChuckD123]

Great. Thanks everyone. Good stuff to know.

 

[ddrrseio]

the guys at SARA in capitola are making incredible saisons. supposedly they use the french saison yeast as their base and throw in various other cultures toward the end of of fermentation.

you don't have to add any other yeast or brett, of course, but the french saison yeast is supposed to be easier to handle than the dupont strain.

 

[CharlosCarlies]

I haven't worked w/ the Dupont strain, but obviously it has the reputation of being a royal PITA. Always had great results w/ the French Saison strain though, so I'd have to strongly recommend it.

 

[ChuckD123]

Right on. Dupont strain is reported to be difficult. Was leaning away from that one. Perhaps the French strain is worth more consideration. Thanks.

 

[Bee_Serious]

Brew Your Own had an issue with a great article on Saisons last summer. I think this is it:
http://byo.com/soda-pop/item/2822-saison-a-beer-for-all-seasons

 

[dios_es_un_tortuga]

I've used the dupont strain around 78 degrees and got a real nice flavor from it. I had no trouble with the ferment at a gravity of 1.046. I didn't really check it until I bottled after it had been sitting for a month, but it got down to 1.010. Flavors improved steadily in the bottle until I ran out around six months later.

 

[DoWBrewer]

I use the WLP Saison III and usually ferment for the first two days at 65 degrees and then slowly ramp up. I add about 1-pound of sugar, but I wait until the third day of fermentation (boil it for 15-mins and cool it) before adding to the fermentor. The other recommendations is to keep your grain bill simple, mostly pilsner malt. Mash in the high 140s and mash for at least an hour, maybe 90-mins. It helps to do a full 90-minute boil to drive off DMS from the pilsner malt. I think the citra hops go really well with this yeast, but citra is pretty good in anything. If you want a recipe, I would be happy to post it.

 

[ChuckD123]

Would love to see you recipe. Gathering as much intel as i can before brew day. Thanks!

 

[dios_es_un_tortuga]

I used the Saisoon buffoon recipe from Radical Brewing.
5.5 lb pilsner malt
2.5 lb munich malt
1 lb wheat malt
1 lb panella
1 oz Northern brewer 60 min
1.5 oz saaz 30 min
2.0 oz east kent goldings, .67 oz coriander, zest of one orange and 1/4 grapefruit, 1 gram grains of paradise 5 min.
My og came out much lower than it should at 75% efficiency thanks to my lhbs's crush size. Had to quit going there and start ordering online.
I've also made the same recipe with slightly less hops and 32oz POM and .5 pound dried elderberries added. The idea was to create a winy tasting saison. It was a little too winy. I'll probably drop the elderberries and use 16oz POM next time.

 

[ChuckD123]

Thanks for recipe. The POM/elderberry idea is interesting. Very creative. Was thinking about adding some lavender or sage to the recipe for some herbieness. Still just a thought at this point thoufh.

 

[DoWBrewer]

Here is my recipe, but it saison III not II. http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/218151/saison-citra

I don't to discount anyone else's advice, but I would brew a batch without spices first. I find the yeast adds plenty of spice notes.

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[CharlosCarlies]

I don't to discount anyone else's advice, but I would brew a batch without spices first. I find the yeast adds plenty of spice notes.

Agreed. I'm a big believer in keeping things as simple as possible.

Honestly you'll make a fantastic beer w/ just 100% Pils and Saison yeast. I personally hop them around .75-1 bittering/gravity units (from what I understand, Saison was fairly hoppy historically), but that part's totally up to you.

 

[drumuglyknuckles]

So, I'm new to saison. Can I use pale malt to sub pilsner?

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[mb82]

So, I'm new to saison. Can I use pale malt to sub pilsner?

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My favorite recipe I use 2 row in it. I never brewed this recipe with Pilsner so I can't say if it is better or worse.

 

[beergolf]

So, I'm new to saison. Can I use pale malt to sub pilsner?

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Saisons are a pretty loose style, so yes you can use pale malt and it will work. I did a Saison with Belgian Pale and some Munich and it came out great.

Mash low and long to get it very fermentable and you are good to go.

 

[HolyKrausenBatman]

I have a Saison with 3711 ready to bottle in my garage as we speak. I pitched at 68 F, let it rise to 75 over the next 24 hours then let it go at 75 for a week. Great smell and flavor. One thing to be aware of with 3711 is that it attenuates very dry. The beer doesn't taste dry, as the yeast seems to do something to the mouthfeel that counteracts. It took my 1.053 down to 1.002. No surprises from this critter, just a reliable attenuator.

 

[drumuglyknuckles]

So is it the yeast that defines a saison?

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[beergolf]

So is it the yeast that defines a saison?

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Pretty much. Saisons are usually pretty simple recipes so al lot of the flavor is the yeast.

 

[mchrispen]

So is it the yeast that defines a saison?

Definitely. I recently tried out Danstar's Belle Saison - and loved it. Maybe second to 3711 in flavor, different, but nice. Spicy and estery and took a 1.076 OG down to 1.008 at 70F with no problems. It's a dry yeast so more convenient to store, and I didn't have to baby it like the Dupont. That and 3711 are pretty forgiving - but let the yeast do it's thing... if it seems done, wait a week and check again. I tend to give an additional week or two past my normal 2 week primary - last one went 3 weeks extra (I got busy) and dropped another 3 points.

As to the Pils malts - I do believe the malt backbone needs to be solid, even though the yeast and hops will dominate the flavor and aroma. If you use domestic 2-row, maybe add a tiny bit of belgian aromatic. I tend to toss in a little bit of CaraMunich or CaraVienne for color. I use about 5% wheat or rye as well - rye seems to add a peppery note. Also I like to mash long and low (90 minutes at 144F) and then mash out, especially for a high gravity saison. Have to be careful though - it can get thin and watery, so mash out if possible. I would think 152-150 for a single infusion works well. My favorite saisons are bone dry and a bit puckery.

If you add a bit of sugar, wait until high krausen to add, and depending on the amount, perhaps do two staggered additions. This should help encourage the yeast to chow on the maltose first...

Now I need a glass of saison...

 

[drumuglyknuckles]

I just thought I'd try 2 row cause I have a ton. What do you think if I added a bit of Special B? I like the wheat and rye idea

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[mchrispen]

I have used Special B in a strong saison, but lightly. I get raisin, date and caramel from it, so maybe less than 5%, or just enough for color and to replace other caramels/crystals.

 

[drumuglyknuckles]

Thanks Crispin

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[pjj2ba]

I like White labs Saison II. It's a beast and doesn't mind the cold. I've got two beers going right now with this yeast. Both pitched from the same yeast cake. Both were chugging away within 24 hrs - at 58 F. I'm brewing tomorrow and will use more of the same yeast cake.

Plenty of spice at these temperature, well, at least in the low 60's I've used it at before. I was going to put the first batch in a water bath as I thought it might be a bit too cold. Nope, at least as far as activity, we'll see what kind of flavor I get. I'm going to move the oldest to a new room in the upper 60's for it to finish out. This yeast has no problem dropping a beer down to 1.006, even fermented in the mid 60's, and I find is lends a little sweetness to the beer, in spite of the low FG

I should note that I like "Belgian" flavors, but not when they get real strong. I still like to taste the malt and hops