Brewie

[uberg33k]

Will be interested to hear the official answer, but I think the key is the "brewie pad". With all the grains in a bag, much like BIAB, stuck sparge and clogged chiller shouldn't be an issue. Now if a bag were to tear or spill...

I'm also wondering what other BIAB concepts can be applied here. For example, using the pads you should be able to use a finer crush and get better efficiency.

I've only ever used BIAB with fine mesh bags and only whole hops in filter bags/baskets. You can still gum up a plate chiller. Trust me.

 

[sunnyville]

I've only ever used BIAB with fine mesh bags and only whole hops in filter bags/baskets. You can still gum up a plate chiller. Trust me.

As someone who hasn't ever brewed with BIAB: if I were to regularly use PBW to rinse the chiller - would that not avoid the gunk building up over time? I used PBW a few times now and it is quite effective at getting rid of some of the stains and hop-remnants stuck to the vessels I use.

Back to the Brewie - I don't know if PBW maybe is too aggressive for the hoses & pumps inside the machine? On the container, PBW simply says "don't use with teflon" which I assume won't be used in the Brewie anyways.

 

[uberg33k]

As someone who hasn't ever brewed with BIAB: if I were to regularly use PBW to rinse the chiller - would that not avoid the gunk building up over time? I used PBW a few times now and it is quite effective at getting rid of some of the stains and hop-remnants stuck to the vessels I use.

I ran hot PWB through a 20 plate duda diesel chiller, backwards and forwards. After about 6 brews, it was gummed. Not to the point of clogging completely, but you could look down in the opening and see a little residue of something. I put it in the oven on a cleaning cycle. The amount of ash that came out was horrifying. I can only guess how much gunk was in there that you couldn't see. Now, perhaps using an enzyme + percarbonate cleaner would get you a different result, but I can tell you for a fact straight PWB isn't going to cut it over time.

 

[Ethanfox]

Brewie_team, thank you for taking the time to answer the questions.

 

[steelsnow]

Here's one of my questions for Brewie Team - how is Brewie going to manage heat within the unit? Heat is a well known enemy of electronics and can take a toll on longevity, especially in a compact space. How will Brewie keep it's circuit boards and other sensitive parts cool while having one or more heating elements capable of boiling, all in the space under (or between) the 2 tanks on Brewie?
Thanks!

 

[sunnyville]

Here's one of my questions for Brewie Team - how is Brewie going to manage heat within the unit? Heat is a well known enemy of electronics and can take a toll on longevity, especially in a compact space. How will Brewie keep it's circuit boards and other sensitive parts cool while having one or more heating elements capable of boiling, all in the space under (or between) the 2 tanks on Brewie?
Thanks!

I don't have an answer but during the brew day I noticed the following: when the machine initially boots, the fan comes on quite strong for a few seconds, like it used to do on older laptops during the system test at startup.
I can't remember if the fans quietend down, but they were definitely always on and audible (but not screaming, just a "whoosh") for the entire actual brewing time.
There are vents on boths sides of the unit. They seemed to have the rough dimensions of a 120mm fan, but that is pure speculation on my side

 

[techbrewie]

Wonder where they got the name? OG since 2012

Also can it use liquid yeast? or are you stuck with dry packets. Thanks!

 

[JamieP]

Wonder where they got the name? OG since 2012

Also can it use liquid yeast? or are you stuck with dry packets. Thanks!

It doesn't "use" any yeast. The machine just pumps the wort into whatever fermantation vessel you have and you take it from there. Use whatever yeast you choose.

 

[Ethanfox]

Latest email suggests September delivery now. Is that for all orders or just new orders? Clarification required.

 

[BrunDog]

I'd be a little miffed that they have an active thread here with a captive audience and have gone dark for almost a week.

 

[JamieP]

I don't have a new email from them. Can you share?

 

[Ethanfox]

Same as last that went out offering discount, but new delivery date of September for the new orders. No mention of how this affects existing orders.



The 15% discount on our website lasts until the 30th of April (this Saturday). If you pre-order this month your very own Brewie will be delivered in September. After the deal is over the price is going to get a lot closer to the future retail price (2000-2200USD). Save 400USD today!

 

[JamieP]

I'd be a little miffed that they have an active thread here with a captive audience and have gone dark for almost a week.

Since you last commented about not seeing the machine running and this being far from real, there has been confirmation that the beer provided at the shows is made in a Brewie, a hands on public session, videos from the session and tons of answers provided by a rep. After all that, I'm surprised this is what you have to say...

 

[Brewie_team]

Latest email suggests September delivery now. Is that for all orders or just new orders? Clarification required.

Hello Ethan!

It is the new orders that will be delivered in September.

Cheers,
Csaba

 

[Brewie_team]

I don't have a new email from them. Can you share?

Hello Jamie!

If you write to this email: [email protected], we will try to give you an answer in 24 hours.

Csaba

 

[JamieP]

I exchanged messages with Mark after I found the update to supporters (received today) to be unclear. He confirmed July delivery is still on track for pre-orders.

 

[Brewie_team]

As someone who hasn't ever brewed with BIAB: if I were to regularly use PBW to rinse the chiller - would that not avoid the gunk building up over time? I used PBW a few times now and it is quite effective at getting rid of some of the stains and hop-remnants stuck to the vessels I use.

Back to the Brewie - I don't know if PBW maybe is too aggressive for the hoses & pumps inside the machine? On the container, PBW simply says "don't use with teflon" which I assume won't be used in the Brewie anyways.

Since the automatic cleaning process runs right after you transferred the beer into a keg, it can effectively remove any contamination left inside the vessels and the chiller. PBW seems to be ok to be used with Brewie, we are now testing different cleaners to find the best solution for it.

 

[Brewie_team]

Wonder where they got the name? OG since 2012

Also can it use liquid yeast? or are you stuck with dry packets. Thanks!

Since the fermentation happens outside of the machine, you can use any type of yeast. After the brewing process you should transfer the beer into a keg and pitch it with the yeast of your choice.

Cheers,
Csaba

 

[Brewie_team]

I only have two questions right now...
1. Will there be any demonstrations in the US similar to the event in Germany?
2. Was Brewie always designed with a plate chiller or was it originally a TEC plate? For the chiller to work, you're requiring the unit be plumbed, correct? Could you expand a bit on how this plate is being tested for long term viability? Every plate chiller I've seen eventually gets clogged and needs to be baked in an oven to turn the blockage to ash. How is Brewie avoiding this fate?

Thank you!

1. Yes, we plan to go there in July or August. The dates are not yet confirmed.
2. Originally we cooled with with air (you should use at least 100pcs of TEC plates in order to produce a good chilling effect) however we changed to water cooling since it’s three-four times faster than air-cooling. Since the automatic cleaning process runs right after you transferred the beer into a keg, it can effectively remove any contamination left inside the heat exchanger.

 

[Brewie_team]

Here's one of my questions for Brewie Team - how is Brewie going to manage heat within the unit? Heat is a well known enemy of electronics and can take a toll on longevity, especially in a compact space. How will Brewie keep it's circuit boards and other sensitive parts cool while having one or more heating elements capable of boiling, all in the space under (or between) the 2 tanks on Brewie?
Thanks!

All the elements and inner parts are designed and placed to resist against heat. There are also fans within the unit to make it impossible for the electronics to overheat.

 

[steelsnow]

I don't have an answer but during the brew day I noticed the following: when the machine initially boots, the fan comes on quite strong for a few seconds, like it used to do on older laptops during the system test at startup.
I can't remember if the fans quietend down, but they were definitely always on and audible (but not screaming, just a "whoosh") for the entire actual brewing time.
There are vents on boths sides of the unit. They seemed to have the rough dimensions of a 120mm fan, but that is pure speculation on my side

Thanks for the first hand thoughts... combined with the water cooling wort chiller that Team Brewie mentioned (vs the original air cooling that was mentioned previously - blowing the heat off 20l of boiling wort right thru the electronics cavity underneath after boiling for an hour was a big concern originally) it sounds promising!

 

[steelsnow]

All the elements and inner parts are designed and placed to resist against heat. There are also fans within the unit to make it impossible for the electronics to overheat.

Thank you for the response.

Another question I had was regarding the shipping/packaging. When the Picobrew Zymatic launched, they had many units that were damaged during shipping that wound up having to be returned & eventually replaced. We saw the one picture with two Brewie team members standing on the packaging - what other measures are being planned to ensure that when units are shipped that they arrive undamaged?

 

[sniperd]

I received an email this week confirming my address and voltage (110 or 220). I think expected shipments are for July but it's nice to see it moving along. Anybody else get an email?

 

[sunnyville]

Yes, I also received that email. Also there will be a series of videos which they will consecutively release over the next few weeks. They might even upload the first one this week. They had an outtake from the shoot on Facebook, showing what seemed to be the beginning of a brewday.

 

[Tuttdog]

I got the email as well.

 

[ccbadd]

Got another one today claiming great, good and not so good news. Basically delayed more. I'm trying to stay positive...

 

[steelsnow]

In the new pre production delay email, they included a link to a new video that shows a few more details: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq3GY2ZswdY[/ame]

 

[sniperd]

I got the same email. Certainly doesn't seem like vaporware though! Would like to see some more videos from above to see the water/grain/mash moving around.

 

[JamieP]

My thoughts based on the new email and watching the video:

1- Hope the delay isn't too long, but sounds like it could be significant
2- Surprised by how long the brewing process took once the "start" was pushed. Mashing, sparging, and getting the wort to boil all seemed slow.
3- The explanation for the slow ramp up to boil and how it helps prevent boilovers was interesting. Anyone heard of this before?
4- Lack of support for whirpooling is disappointing. Wonder if this is a hardware or software limitation.
5- I hope the time during the delay is used to work out any remaining bugs, provide units for independent reviews/feedback etc. If it results in a better product delivered, then it isn't a total waste.

 

[JamieP]

4- Lack of support for whirpooling is disappointing. Wonder if this is a hardware or software limitation.

I exchanged a quick message with Brewie and realize now that the comment in the video referred to whirlpooling to settle out trub. They have addressed this other ways.

I'm more interested in if an equivalent to whirlpool hopping is supported. I've asked and will provide an update once I hear back.

 

[BrunDog]

Sorry to hear that guys. Not surprising, but certainly disappointing.

Meanwhile, maybe get a microphone for that video recording?!? Jeez that is just horrible audio. I would also have preferred them to show you more of the machine in operation, rather than just a guy talking about it.

 

[AnotherSillyUsername]

So in October 2015 the Indiegogo campaign stopped. The company switched to Pre-orders and announced a delivery in Feb/March 2016.
Around Feb 2016 there was the first email about delays. New delivery date was set to July 2016.
Now in June 2016 another mail about delays, they don't even mention a new estimated delivery date.
Meanwhile on their Facebook they stated (in June): Doing software and hardware development at the same time is difficult...

Let's put it mildly: It seems the company has problems in planning, developing the product.

What is your take on this project?
Will it ever be realised?
How many delays will the backers take, before they leave?


I personally do not see this product coming to the market this year. If they are still in SW/HW development in June - no chance to do testing, tooling, production and getting all the certificates in 6 months.

 

[Ethanfox]

They certainty are anything but transparent. For a crowd-sourced product, it's not a good move. Especially when dates are moved so frequently and by so many months. Communication and planning are both major issues with this startup.

 

[crane]

Doing software and hardware development at the same time is difficult...

If they think that having the luxury of designing a complete system from ground up where both the SW and HW designs can influence each other to come up with the best possible solution is difficult, then I don't think these guys have much experience with system design.

I have seen several times over where one side will make assumptions towards the other only to find later that the amount of effort needed to implement a feature goes up significantly because the prior assumptions were never vetted out.

I hope you guys that funded this startup end up with something reliable to brew on eventually.

 

[JamieP]

I personally do not see this product coming to the market this year. If they are still in SW/HW development in June - no chance to do testing, tooling, production and getting all the certificates in 6 months.

I am frustrated with the delays and have concerns, but not sure you have the latest information. They are not in development. From the last update:

"We received the DVT units from our manufacturer. DVT stands for Design Validation Test and it is the process where we build various units before finalizing tooling to check if the machines meet all functional and appearance requirements. The machines passed all functional and preliminary certification tests meaning that the process to acquire the required certifications is on track."​

At this point they are ready for pilot production and delayed by a supplier. My biggest gripe is that they want to provide big, formal communications. I think a steady, informal dialogue would help greatly. I'd love to hear more about how the brew process is working on the pilot machines (utilization, hopping techniques, etc.) and what issues they are still trying to improve on. It would also be good to know if there are any upsides to the delays on tooling side- i.e. will that allow any software driven enhancements to be included (probably wishful thinking).

 

[kh54s10]

I am frustrated with the delays and have concerns, but not sure you have the latest information. They are not in development. From the last update:

"We received the DVT units from our manufacturer. DVT stands for Design Validation Test and it is the process where we build various units before finalizing tooling to check if the machines meet all functional and appearance requirements. The machines passed all functional and preliminary certification tests meaning that the process to acquire the required certifications is on track."​

If they are still testing prototypes and have not finalized tooling, they ARE still in development.

If they haven't made the tooling and don't have certifications I can't see this being delivered in less than a couple more months.

Not that I am in the market for one.

 

[JamieP]

If they are still testing prototypes and have not finalized tooling, they ARE still in development.

If they haven't made the tooling and don't have certifications I can't see this being delivered in less than a couple more months.

Not that I am in the market for one.

I've seen dozens of different version of the product development lifecycle. Some would agree with your definition, others wouldn't so it isn't worth arguing. In this case, what is probably most helpful is to talk in terms of the development process Brewie has shared and the details of where they are in that process.

 

[steelsnow]

Latest time estimate from Brewie within a post on the big FB (& a funny exchange from Drew). No answer on Q2 yet, but it is after hours in Budapest right now.
--------

Brewie Fact #13: Beer may be good for your bones.

--------
Drew McIntosh

I'm getting osteoporosis over here. When are these machines getting built?
--------
Brewie

Hello Drew, We are now in the final phase before mass production. Brewies will be ready to ship in Q4. Regards, Csaba

--------
Simon Jones

Brewie*which month in Q4 please?

Hide*·*1 hour ago

 

[JamieP]

Latest update from Brewie via email- late October delivery for first 500 units.

 

[awest74]

I am going to draw a line in the sand, I purchased mine during the November black friday sale. It said specifically that I have the right to a refund after a one year period if the product is not delivered. This was a pre-buy, not a crowdfund campaign. If I don't have mine by November I'm asking for a full refund.