Brewhouse efficiency is in the toilet!

[rainingbullets]

Hi all. It's been a long time since my last brew (had to live with the parents for awhile, but that's another story...)

I put together EdWort's Robust Porter recipe. Here it is from BeerSmith:

Type: All Grain
Date: 3/27/2010
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Brewer: Frosty
Boil Size: 6.41 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (7.5 gal) and Igloo Cooler (10 Gal)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 67.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 80.00 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 7.27 %
1.00 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 7.27 %
0.50 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 3.64 %
0.25 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 1.82 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 27.8 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 9.0 IBU
0.33 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 50.0 min) Misc
8.00 oz Malto-Dextrine (Boil 20.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.065 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.048 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.016 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.45 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.17 %
Bitterness: 36.8 IBU Calories: 215 cal/pint
Est Color: 36.9 SRM Color: Color


I recently decided to go fly sparge, from my usual batch sparging. I rigged up this "manifold" with some extra copper tubing:

Not the best looking thing out there, but it seems to work (or at least I thought)

At the bottom of my mash tun I have a metal braid setup like so:

So for my first temp step, I ran about 1.25qt/lb water and hit my 150F target on the money. I let it sit for about an hour, then started the fly sparge with ~170F water. Using as slow flow as I could get, took me about 45 - 60 mins to get my 6.5 gallons of wort.

Here's my ghetto setup in action (neighbors thought I was cooking meth HAH!)

So once I had my boil kickin, I took a pre-boil sample to measure the gravity. Cooled it to 60F, and I was expecting to see about 1.055 (I've made this recipe before..delish!) To my dismay, I saw 1.022 on the hydrometer. WHAT THE FUNK? I thought my hydrometer was cracked or something. Measured some water...sure enough, 1.000

It tasted like wort, but not as sweet as I would expect. Why the hell is the gravity so damn low?

I decided to go on with my procedure (probably wrong move). After boiling off about a gallon after an hour, and adding the malto-dextrine, the gravity was at 1.044. Still pretty freakin low.

I'm blown away at this lousy efficiency. BeerSmith put it at 30%, and I'm pretty sure it was laughing at me.

What have I done to angry the beer gods? My only thought is a lousy grain crush. This was my first time at the LHBS in this town.

Maybe I could have poured some of the wort back into the MLT at a different temperature?

Thoughts? Jeers? Thanks!

 

[djsethall]

It ain't your gear mang. It has to be something else. Do you use a lid on your MLT? BTW, I batch sparge for best efficiency.

 

[step]

My only thought is a lousy grain crush. This was my first time at the LHBS in this town.

^^^THIS

I really think a lot of people's efficiency problems (that have a clue what they are doing) are directly tied to a crappy crush from the LHBS. Love the LHBS (not my most local one), but they don't always throw down on very nice mills and even when they do its usually set pretty loose.

 

[djsethall]

^^^THIS

I really think a lot of people's efficiency problems (that have a clue what they are doing) are directly tied to a crappy crush from the LHBS. Love the LHBS (not my most local one), but they don't always throw down on very nice mills and even when they do its usually set pretty loose.

Have them do a double crush and throw in a pound or so of rice hulls to prevent a stuck sparge. This will do wonders. I do a finer crush than most and use rice hulls for flow through. Works great.

 

[Beezy]

^^^THIS

I really think a lot of people's efficiency problems (that have a clue what they are doing) are directly tied to a crappy crush from the LHBS. Love the LHBS (not my most local one), but they don't always throw down on very nice mills and even when they do its usually set pretty loose.

I found this out between the last two batches. LHBS crush - 50% efficiency. Hooked up with a free corona mill did it myself = 78%. There was a couple other things I did wrong the first time but the crush was probably the biggest issue.

 

[step]

Have them do a double crush and throw in a pound or so of rice hulls to prevent a stuck sparge. This will do wonders. I do a finer crush than most and use rice hulls for flow through. Works great.

I am lucky enough to have a friend at a local brewery and use their mill for my grains. Simply stated..... BEAUTIFUL CRUSH

 

[emetcalf]

I would say the fly sparging is also hurting your efficiency with a braided hose. For fly sparging to work you have to have even flow through all parts of your grainbed, and it doesn't happen like that with your hose setup. I would just stick to batch sparging unless you decide to switch to a false bottom or a manifold system.

 

[rainingbullets]

I would say the fly sparging is also hurting your efficiency with a braided hose. For fly sparging to work you have to have even flow through all parts of your grainbed, and it doesn't happen like that with your hose setup. I would just stick to batch sparging unless you decide to switch to a false bottom or a manifold system.

The braided hose worked great when I was batch sparging. Was seeing around 70% efficiency. False bottoms for my 10 gal cooler are on back-order from morebeer.com

I use the lid for the cooler when I let the grain sit for an hour at 150F, then took it off when I was fly sparging. Had no problem with a stuck/slow sparge.

I checked the carboy this morning, and it seems fermentation has taken off nicely. Not sure how far it can go at only 1.044 OG (especially with the matlo-dextrine).

I still have the "spent" grains sitting out on the porch. When I get home I will post up a photo of a handful of grains. I'm no expert, but they don't look to be crushed very well. I'll let yall decide. Thanks for the replies

 

[rockytoptim]

I would say the fly sparging is also hurting your efficiency with a braided hose. For fly sparging to work you have to have even flow through all parts of your grainbed, and it doesn't happen like that with your hose setup. I would just stick to batch sparging unless you decide to switch to a false bottom or a manifold system.

I also thought/read that to fly sparge you should have a manifold or false bottom. I batch sparge so take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

[EdWort]

I recommend batch sparging and getting this for your cooler MLT.

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=12687

It will fit perfectly and will stay put in the bottom where it belongs so you can stir your mash a couple of times before you sparge. Stirring before sparging will help get the sugars in suspension and out through the manifold.

 

[Woodbury419]

I honestly switched from batch sparging to fly sparging w/ manifold and I saw a increase in my efficiencies from a dead 75% to anywhere between 80-93% depending on the grain bill.

 

[Bobby_M]

While the crush could be the culprit, it's really a matter of matching the correct sparge method with the separation/filter method or vice versa. Braids and tube screens don't cut it for fly sparging.

 

[rainingbullets]

While the crush could be the culprit, it's really a matter of matching the correct sparge method with the separation/filter method or vice versa. Braids and tube screens don't cut it for fly sparging.

Needless to say, my setup isn't the best. Just thought I would give fly sparging a try...I would still expect more than 1.022 OG coming out of the mash.

...And if I haven't angered the beer gods enough, I come home from work and I find this:

Awesome. Frickin awesome. Total party foul. First time an explosion found its way outside the fridge. I was afraid to open it...

The blowoff tube shot out! That's some serious fermentation power, man.

After a 30 minute cleanup, here is a shot of my "spent" grains:

From what I can tell, it doesn't look crushed very well. What do yall think?

 

[ArcaneXor]

Most of those grains still seem to be intact - be sure to check the crush next time before you leave the LHBS, and request that they adjust the mill gap or double-crush if you are not satisfied.

 

[Bobby_M]

Nope, that stuff is barely crushed.

 

[EdWort]

Nope, that stuff is barely crushed.

In fact it looks like some Kashi Colonblow cereal.

 

[rainingbullets]

In fact it looks like some Kashi Colonblow cereal.

Haha I should just add milk! Thanks for all the help everyone. I've got a sharp eye on those kids at the LHBS. Will have to see how this brew turns out...

 

[hops2it]

Stirring before sparging will help get the sugars in suspension and out through the manifold.

Do you recommend stirring toward the end of the mash for the same reason? Seems like not a lot of people do but perhaps it could be beneficial?

 

[djsethall]

Where were those grains? Were those from the mash tun or the fermenter?

 

[EdWort]

Do you recommend stirring toward the end of the mash for the same reason? Seems like not a lot of people do but perhaps it could be beneficial?

My method is as follows.

I add my water to my cooler at 10 degrees hotter than what I need for my strike temperature to be. I get my strike temp from this calculator.


I let the cooler warm up for about 10-15 minute and then when my desired temp is reached, I add my milled grains. If it is too high then stirring with the lid off will speed up the temperature drop. I use a ThermaPen thermometer as it gives me instant temp readings.

I then stir the mash making sure all the grain lumps are gone while checking to see if I hit my strike temp. I usually do to the exact degree with this method.

With a 60 minute mash, I will stir at 20 minute intervals and I always stir before lautering into my kettle. I get well over 75% efficiency this way.

 

[kappclark]

With a 60 minute mash, I will stir at 20 minute intervals and I always stir before lautering into my kettle. I get well over 75% efficiency this way.

I see the error of my ways -- I mash in, stir, and come back in 60 m...

I will be interested to see how efficiency improves with some more occaisional prodding with the magic spoon..One thing's for sure, I am not getting 75% eff (closer to 60)..