Brewers Edge - Mash and Boil system $300

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I'm getting ready to go all grain and this is very tempting. My only worry is it seems under powered for winter brewing in Montana. Even if I brew in my shop instead of in front of it, it's usually 20-50° F. in my shop in the winter and it looked like scottibones was having enough issues with temp in 80° F. Florida.
 
Jesse17 said:
I'm getting ready to go all grain and this is very tempting. My only worry is it seems under powered for winter brewing in Montana. Even if I brew in my shop instead of in front of it, it's usually 20-50° F. in my shop in the winter and it looked like scottibones was having enough issues with temp in 80° F. Florida.
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Why not just brew indoors?
 
just brewed my first batch this weekend. Plenty of power, boiled with the lid on and had to take it off time to time to avoid boil overs. I used it just as it came, no circulation pump so the wort never left the kettle.
 
Jesse17 said:
I'm getting ready to go all grain and this is very tempting. My only worry is it seems under powered for winter brewing in Montana. Even if I brew in my shop instead of in front of it, it's usually 20-50° F. in my shop in the winter and it looked like scottibones was having enough issues with temp in 80° F. Florida.
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That is pretty cold but I think if you put a few layers of insulation around it, it would maintain a good boil. I put two layers on mine on the outside and one on the lid but you could easily put three or four layers around the sides at least.
 
Alphahorn said:
just brewed my first batch this weekend. Plenty of power, boiled with the lid on and had to take it off time to time to avoid boil overs. I used it just as it came, no circulation pump so the wort never left the kettle.
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I agree that it has plenty of power to keep up a good boil, especially with some insulation. But a side note - it's okay to keep the lid on until the boil begins but you don't want to keep it on during the boil. There are a lot of compounds that you want to boil off so keeping the lid on defeats this purpose. There is a great video done by BrewSmith where Brad Smith talks to Dr. Charlie Bamforth about this and he goes into great detail about why the boil is so important.

https://youtu.be/YDBKUCkg8cM
 
And I just got done telling my wife that that I was done buying beer stuff for a while...

Aww, Sugar Honey Iced Tea.

How does that saying go?

It's easier to beg forgiveness then ask permission?
 
mpolybius said:
I agree that it has plenty of power to keep up a good boil, especially with some insulation. But a side note - it's okay to keep the lid on until the boil begins but you don't want to keep it on during the boil. There are a lot of compounds that you want to boil off so keeping the lid on defeats this purpose. There is a great video done by BrewSmith where Brad Smith talks to Dr. Charlie Bamforth about this and he goes into great detail about why the boil is so important.

https://youtu.be/YDBKUCkg8cM
Click to expand...

thanks
 
So I've brewed 3 batches with the Brewers Edge so far and wanted to provide a 'lesson's learned', especially based on my experience yesterday. The first two batches went quite well. The third was a different story but I believe now I know why.

In between my second and third batch, I bought a Barley Crusher off of Craigslist from a guy who did BIAB. His setting on the crusher was quite narrow so I changed it to the factory setting of .39. I didn't really do much of a practice crush with it and when I had finished, it looked a bit too fine. It was a semi-large grain bill (14.75 lbs) and I did notice a fair amount of flour. I proceeded on an everything seemed fine until I got to the sparge. At this point I had turned up the temp to 218 which is what they recommend so that it can heat up to boiling temp while the sparge is finishing. At about 189F I got the ER4 code and the unit shut down which indicates an issue with the thermostat an the unit basically tries to protect itself. Fortunately, I figured out a way to hit the reset button without having to life the whole unit up. Got the code twice more during the sparge and then at least 5 more times during the boil. Needless to say, a real PIA. I noticed that stirring helped so by the end I was stirring nearly non-stop.

My best guess is that with the (too) fine crush and the large grain bill there was so much material in the bottom that it kept tripping the error. I'm running a boil this morning with just plain water and have had no issues so that pretty much confirms my suspicion.

Hopefully next time if I get the crush right all will be well. I sure hope so because overall I really like the Mash & Boil. Each time I've hit my OG (even yesterday) and it's easy to use. Other than the reset button being located on the bottom, for $300 it's a pretty good unit.
 
I REALLY hope they come out with a GenII version that fixes the hysterisis issue and moves the reset somewhere more accessible. What other changes would y'all like to see? Maybe they'll pay attention!
Oh, and keep the $300 price point!
 
Anybody still using one of these? How has it been? Has it lasted pretty well? Does it make good beer?

Also, I heard that the hysteresis is not too much of an issue as the temp swings have to do with the water outside of the mash tube, not necessarily the mash inside of it.
 
I just wrapped up my second brew day with it but both beers are still getting ready. I've enjoyed it but have no other all grain experience.

It's not fast by any means but it fits exactly what I wanted (electric + turnkey and can brew outside of my kitchen). On Saturday I woke up and turned it on at 4:20 and was done and pitched by 9:45. The instructions were a bit confusing on water additions, but they've updated their manual so it's a bit more simple to understand. As a newbie, this was appreciated but I've decided to use as much water as I can anyway. My efficiency struggled but it was crush related based on research I've done after the fact (no grain mill). Would recommend it if you have an interest similar to my own. It has been nice to have an easy to move (and clean) system that is plug and play.
 
Riverevir said:
I just wrapped up my second brew day with it but both beers are still getting ready. I've enjoyed it but have no other all grain experience.

It's not fast by any means but it fits exactly what I wanted (electric + turnkey and can brew outside of my kitchen). On Saturday I woke up and turned it on at 4:20 and was done and pitched by 9:45. The instructions were a bit confusing on water additions, but they've updated their manual so it's a bit more simple to understand. As a newbie, this was appreciated but I've decided to use as much water as I can anyway. My efficiency struggled but it was crush related based on research I've done after the fact (no grain mill). Would recommend it if you have an interest similar to my own. It has been nice to have an easy to move (and clean) system that is plug and play.
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Good to hear. Isn't there a way to set things so the strike water is ready at a certain time so you could just wake up and mash in rather than wait for the water to warm up? Could shave off some of the brew time.
 
I tested it Friday night and as simply as I can put it, it didn't work and I was too tired to play with it more once it didn't kick on. The biggest problem here is (as far as I can tell) it only lets you delay it by an hour or more... So to try it again would have taken a full hour to see if it worked. I'm guessing it's another place the users manual could use reworking on this, too. Anyone else have better luck on this?

Bill Moore at Williams has answered every question I've asked and I have to give them a big recommendation. Great customer service IME.
 
I've brewed three batches using this and getting ready to brew a fourth. So far, I have loved it and find it easy to use/clean and it helps me brew great beer. The only issue I ever encountered was when I got the ER4 code several times during a brew and I had to use the reset button (not easy with a full boil but possible depending on your setup) to clear it up. Turns out that was all my fault and not the M&B. This was during my second batch and I was using a recently purchased second hand Barley Crusher which had been set to a fine grind because the previous owner was a BIAB guy. To make matters worse, I was brewing an IPA so it was a heavy grain bill. Anyway, the extra sediment causes the thermostat to trip so that's something to watch out for. I have since brewed another batch with the correct crush setting and everything went perfectly. In troubleshooting this issue, Bill Moore was extremely helpful and even offered to install a new thermostat that has a +5 degree tolerance over the original part free of charge.

Overall I would say this is a great brew system, especially for the price. One caveat I might add would be that it would be difficult to use for really high gravity beers unless you did a half batch. I'm actually going to try a half batch Barleywine soon. I think my IPA used about 14lbs of grain which is pretty close to the maximum it can handle.
 
mpolybius said:
I've brewed three batches using this and getting ready to brew a fourth. So far, I have loved it and find it easy to use/clean and it helps me brew great beer. The only issue I ever encountered was when I got the ER4 code several times during a brew and I had to use the reset button (not easy with a full boil but possible depending on your setup) to clear it up. Turns out that was all my fault and not the M&B. This was during my second batch and I was using a recently purchased second hand Barley Crusher which had been set to a fine grind because the previous owner was a BIAB guy. To make matters worse, I was brewing an IPA so it was a heavy grain bill. Anyway, the extra sediment causes the thermostat to trip so that's something to watch out for. I have since brewed another batch with the correct crush setting and everything went perfectly. In troubleshooting this issue, Bill Moore was extremely helpful and even offered to install a new thermostat that has a +5 degree tolerance over the original part free of charge.

Overall I would say this is a great brew system, especially for the price. One caveat I might add would be that it would be difficult to use for really high gravity beers unless you did a half batch. I'm actually going to try a half batch Barleywine soon. I think my IPA used about 14lbs of grain which is pretty close to the maximum it can handle.
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Sounds great! I think I will pull the trigger when they get them back in stock.

Out of curiosity, is it fine to plug into a normal three prong outlet? I know it recommends GFCI. If that is the only option is the cord long?

One more thing...Is it a pain in the arse to lift out the mash tube when saturated with grain?
 
Power cord is 5 feet long. It hasn't been an issue for me but I know some issues with long heating time have been due to people not having sufficient amps. If you're doing it, it's worth making room to plug direct as they've noted. I think one of the guys that posted videos on here noted that running his pump on the same outlet showed some difference in his boil.

Lifting the basket is easy. My only weightlifting training is a 35 lb 2 year old and it's very simple. I also "squeezed" the grain a bit last time and didn't have issues with it slipping off the cleats.

Unlike mpolybius, my grain bills have both been around 12 lbs.
 
I'll chime in here, although I've only got 2 M&B brews under my belt so far.
I've thoroughly enjoyed using this system and it's made brew days a lot more simple, fun and relaxing. My first batch was a full 5gal gose (about 12lbs total grain) and the last was a 3g pale (5.5ish-lbs). Full brew batch took about 5hrs start to pitching, including cleaning, etc. and 3g was closer to 4hrs. I don't mind the extra time and just being one vessel is more than worth it IMO. I have not actually brewed just using the included grain basket, the first batch was basket and an older (not very great quality) BIAB and the second was just using a Wilserbrew bag (very worth it). I did use the grain basket/tube to drain and squeeze each which worked out well.
Temp hysteresis doesn't bother me, I've been wrapping it in a sleeping bag and it seems like it only kick on once to bring back up the temp. Boil seemed perfect with the full batch and the boil-off is pretty minimal (0.6-0.8gal).
Cord isn't that long but it's been fine for me so far and I'd highly recommend only using a GFCI outlet. Basket weight has not been an issue whatsoever.
I'm doing 2 batches in the next 2 weeks with one being the highest gravity so far (about 1.075) so I'm excited to see how well it does. With the previous 2 batches I did a sparge/rinse to get up to pre-boil volume but with one of these upcoming batches I'll be going full boil (I'll have to rinse/sparge for the higher grav brew).

Overall, I definitely think it's worth it for the price.
 
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Hi, I am brand new here and just started brewing small batches (extract w steeped grains) after a 15 year hiatus from brewing -- moved from a house to an apartment after a divorce. I used to brew all grain with a 10 gallon Polar Ware with mash & sparging stuff I made myself. Loved my Oatmeal Stout! Anyway, I have been intrigued by the new electric Gigawort designed for extract brewing but only 1/2 batches (fine for me some of the the time) but I want something with bigger capacity and the all grain option--- AND -- a big AND -- I live in a small condo and electric power would be wonderful as I currently have a ceramic top electric stove. This Brewer's Edge Mash & Boil looks fantastic and I don't see why I cannot extract brew with it as well. Also, it is more affordable and efficient than buying a larger kettle and a portable induction cooktop. Am I on track here or is there anything else I should consider??
 
Dancy said:
Am I on track here or is there anything else I should consider??
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There are so many ways to skin the cat that they are too numerous to list.

Mash and boil is fine but it is low wattage and takes time to reach boil.

You could likely stovetop smaller batches Extract or BIAB.

You could likely stovetop 5 gallon batches w heatstick assist.

You could unplug your stove and plug in a deluxe 5500w ten gallon electric system.

Really depends on your budget and your goals.
 
wilserbrewer said:
There are so many ways to skin the cat that they are too numerous to list.

Mash and boil is fine but it is low wattage and takes time to reach boil.

You could likely stovetop smaller batches Extract or BIAB.

You could likely stovetop 5 gallon batches w heatstick assist.

You could unplug your stove and plug in a deluxe 5500w ten gallon electric system.

Really depends on your budget and your goals.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the input. I became interested in brewing again because I gave my 22 yr old daughter a one gallon kit for us to do together -- as a 5 yr old, she was fascinated by my all grain brewing. We made a one gallon IPA, extract w steeped grains and it turned out great. Now she likes the idea of 1/2 batches, which we can easily do on my ceramic topped electric stove. I just ordered a cheap 5 gallon kettle with a ball valve and I'm looking at a BrewDemon 3 gallon fermenter. This comes in at under $100 so I won't be so financially invested when I purchase a BE Mash & Boil. Plus I can use the 5 gallon kettle for heating sparge water. Budget does matter and the BE Mash & Boil seems like a cost effective way to go. The truth is, I've become excited about brewing again now there is an indoor electric option for my 854 sq ft condo with a small kitchen! I have nowhere I can set up a propane burner as that's not allowed on the balcony of my 5 story building :-( Looks like I resolved this! :)
 
I just purchased the M&B, and I'm so excited for my first brew on it a week from Saturday! I only have a few questions before I do my first batch. Do people have more success with a bag or without? Have people found any grain husks or cloudy mash without the bag? I have a bag and I'm not afraid to use it, but if I don't have to use it that's one less thing. Also, I know with BIAB it's typically not necessary to sparge, but does anyone have a noticeable difference when sparging? I only have one BIAB brew under my belt and I saw a significant drop in my efficiency from my original 3 pot system. However, I really want to stick with it because it's such a space saver, and the M&B seems like it's going to be a great addition to my brew house. Thanks!
 
I’ve had success without a bag and the sparge has definitely helped me gain efficiency. Do you have any control over your crush? That’s probably the only other place I’ve seen efficiency tick up. I am at about 8 brews and I’ve gotten about 72% consistently since buying a mill, but that includes about 4 to4.5 gal of strike water and 3 gallons of sparge water. I think the sparge process is a bit difficult and wouldn’t mind a screen like the grainfather has, and have looked into alternatives to hold the grain bed in place for a more consistent sparge. I’d love to hear feedback from other people on where they’re landing with this.

Lots of people expressed frustration about the temp swings but I can say that my grain bed stays pretty damn consistent. The water outside the mash tube does heat up, but the grain bed itself stays fairly consistent on temp.

I’m not having grain/husk issues, but clarity is not something I can speak to with dark beers and oated pale ales as my last 6 beers... it’ll take time to dial it in a bit, but it sounds like you’re transitioning anyway. The issue with the basket AND a bag is I had a paint strainer bag snag on the basket handle. You could try on the outside but there are a few screws that might snag too.
 
Riverevir said:
I’ve had success without a bag and the sparge has definitely helped me gain efficiency. Do you have any control over your crush? That’s probably the only other place I’ve seen efficiency tick up. I am at about 8 brews and I’ve gotten about 72% consistently since buying a mill, but that includes about 4 to4.5 gal of strike water and 3 gallons of sparge water. I think the sparge process is a bit difficult and wouldn’t mind a screen like the grainfather has, and have looked into alternatives to hold the grain bed in place for a more consistent sparge. I’d love to hear feedback from other people on where they’re landing with this.

Lots of people expressed frustration about the temp swings but I can say that my grain bed stays pretty damn consistent. The water outside the mash tube does heat up, but the grain bed itself stays fairly consistent on temp.

I’m not having grain/husk issues, but clarity is not something I can speak to with dark beers and oated pale ales as my last 6 beers... it’ll take time to dial it in a bit, but it sounds like you’re transitioning anyway. The issue with the basket AND a bag is I had a paint strainer bag snag on the basket handle. You could try on the outside but there are a few screws that might snag too.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response. I don't own a grain mill, but I do have a great homebrew supply shop. He tells me to let him know exactly how I want the grains crushed and he will do just that. I've been very happy with him so far. I was thinking a sparge would definitely raise my efficiency. My tried and true method in my last system was simply using a colander so the water lightly showers the grain. The other thing is, temp swings shouldn't be an issue because I have a pump for recirculation. Again, thanks for the helpful words, and I'll check back in after my next brew to let you guys know how it ended up
 

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