Brewdog Punk IPA Recipe Clone

[Matheos]

Hi guys!
It's been a while since my last brew but as the beer is soon out, I am planning my next one. This time I figured I would go for a personal favourite, the IPA, and more specifically brewdog's Punk IPA.

The recipe is available online at: PUNK IPA 2007 - 2010 - BrewDog Recipes

It seems simple enough, but I wanted to get you guys' opinion on if I have interpreted the recipe correctly and input it correctly into brewfather here: Brewfather
I will obviously still have to adjust the AA values once I know the exact values of my hops, but apart from that? Do you interpret "End" additions as hop stands? Also regarding hop stands, what method do you recommend? I don't have any "whirpool" tools, noor do I have a pump. I circulate manually when I have too. So far I have done "hopstands" simply by adding the hops @ 0 and done it for as long as it takes me to get down to pitching temp (stirring using the chiller from time to time), my immersion chiller is pretty ineffective so it does take a while. Around 15-30min.


Recipe copy paste:

Punk IPA Clone
American-Style India Pale Lager
6.6% / 15.2 °P
Recipe by
Matheos Mattsson
All Grain
Maischfest
75.8% efficiency
Batch Volume: 20 L
Boil Time: 60 min
Mash Water: 18.5 L
Sparge Water: 8.52 L
Total Water: 27.02 L
Boil Volume: 22.63 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.057
Vitals
Original Gravity: 1.062
Final Gravity: 1.012
IBU (Tinseth): 78
BU/GU: 1.26
Color: 10.8 EBC


Mash

Temperature — 65 °C — 60 min
Malts (5.3 kg)
5.3 kg (100%) — Viking Malt Pale Ale 2-Row — Grain — 6 EBC
Hops (147.5 g)
17.5 g (13 IBU) — Ahtanum 6% — Boil — 60 min
15 g (23 IBU) — Chinook 13% — Boil — 60 min
17.5 g (22 IBU) — Chinook 13% — Boil — 30 min
17.5 g (6 IBU) — Crystal 3.5% — Boil — 30 min
17.5 g (7 IBU) — Ahtanum 6% — Boil — 15 min
27.5 g (5 IBU) — Chinook 13% — Aroma — 15 min hopstand
17.5 g (1 IBU) — Crystal 3.5% — Aroma — 15 min hopstand
17.5 g (2 IBU) — Motueka 7% — Aroma — 15 min hopstand

Hopstand at 80 °C
Yeast
1 pkg — Fermentis US-05 Safale American 81%
Fermentation
Primary — 20 °C — 14 days
Carbonation: 2.4 CO2-vol

 

[Pils Brosnan]

The "whirlpool" is just a term commercial breweries use for when they are separating the trub and hops from the wort by moving the wort in a circle before transferring it into the chiller/fermenter. You do not need any special equipment to achieve the same effect - just cool the wort to the temperature you want (about 70-80 C) and steep the hops there for 10 or 15 minutes. Any movement of the wort will help in extracting flavor/aroma from the hops but, I think it is quite easy to understand that, the hops do not know if they are going in a perfect circle or not.

TL;DR: the "whirlpool" is just a process term for separating hops & trub from the wort, not a magical thing. Same effect can be achieved by steeping the hops in slightly cooled wort.

 

[Matheos]

The "whirlpool" is just a term commercial breweries use for when they are separating the trub and hops from the wort by moving the wort in a circle before transferring it into the chiller/fermenter. You do not need any special equipment to achieve the same effect - just cool the wort to the temperature you want (about 70-80 C) and steep the hops there for 10 or 15 minutes. Any movement of the wort will help in extracting flavor/aroma from the hops but, I think it is quite easy to understand that, the hops do not know if they are going in a perfect circle or not.

TL;DR: the "whirlpool" is just a process term for separating hops & trub from the wort, not a magical thing. Same effect can be achieved by steeping the hops in slightly cooled wort.

Hi Pils,
Thanks for your response Thanks for the clearification of whirpooling. I was a bit aware of this from before, though I have also seen people perform this "movement of the wort" using for example a screwdriver and some kind of stirring thing attached, though this can obviously be done by hand too.
In my post I mentioned how and when I add my hops for the hop steep. Do you think this is a good method, or should I wait with adding the hops until the wort is at 80 C, rather than adding them at actual flameout when it's closer to 100 C?
And in the end, should I stick to the 10-15min time, rather than leaving them in all the way until I am at at pitching temp? As I mentioned, my sad excuse for a immersion chiller is a joke and is really not quick, meaning I won't cool my wort in 10-15min.

 

[IslandLizard]

Since it's an IPA it would benefit from a decent size dry hop. Such as 2-3 ounces of a mix of the same 3 or 4 hops.
Add after fermentation has completed, 3-5 days before packaging.

Don't do a secondary.

 

[Miraculix]

The critical point is to get below about 80c so that the hopstand doesn't extract more ibus. After that, more time means more flavor. You overshoot the ibus, the original recipe has 60 ibus. I wouldn't go higher than 60 for this one personally.

 

[Pils Brosnan]

Hi Pils,
Thanks for your response Thanks for the clearification of whirpooling. I was a bit aware of this from before, though I have also seen people perform this "movement of the wort" using for example a screwdriver and some kind of stirring thing attached, though this can obviously be done by hand too.
In my post I mentioned how and when I add my hops for the hop steep. Do you think this is a good method, or should I wait with adding the hops until the wort is at 80 C, rather than adding them at actual flameout when it's closer to 100 C?
And in the end, should I stick to the 10-15min time, rather than leaving them in all the way until I am at at pitching temp? As I mentioned, my sad excuse for a immersion chiller is a joke and is really not quick, meaning I won't cool my wort in 10-15min.

Add the hops at flameout (100 C): more evaporation of essential oils (less flavor & aroma) and more isomerization of alpha acids (more bitterness)
Add the hops to wort at "whirlpool" temps (70-80 C): less evaporation of essential oils (more flavor & aroma) and less isomerization of alpha acids (less bitterness)
These are the reasons flameout and whilrpool/hopstand are considered different additions. However, can you actually taste the difference at a homebrew setting? Who knows...

The question of whether to pull the hops out before starting the chilling from 70-80 C to pitching temps or leaving them in is another question of whether or not you can taste the difference. If I had to guess, there is no significant effect. Perhaps pulling the hops out before starting the final chilling may prevent some vegetal flavors as the "spent hops" are removed as soon as possible? Could it depend on the process itself, as hop matter can help with filtering trub out of the wort in some setups? I don't know - I think your question is excellent!

 

[Pils Brosnan]

Since it's an IPA it would benefit from a decent size dry hop. Such as 2-3 ounces of a mix of the same 3 or 4 hops.
Add after fermentation has completed, 3-5 days before packaging.

Don't do a secondary.

The recipe OP is following is the old version of Punk IPA (2007 - 2010) which did not include dry hops. The new version (2010 - current) has dry hop charges with six different hops.

 

[Matheos]

Since it's an IPA it would benefit from a decent size dry hop. Such as 2-3 ounces of a mix of the same 3 or 4 hops.
Add after fermentation has completed, 3-5 days before packaging.

Don't do a secondary.

Hmm you're right. The original recipe does not mention dry hops at all. Would you still recommend doing a dry hop with the remaining hops + follow the recipe as I input it into brewfather?
If I buy hops packaged at 100g each, I will have left over:
65g Athanum
40g Chinook
65g Crystal
82,5g Motueka
Throwing it all in is surely too much, but what about say 15-20g each?

The critical point is to get below about 80c so that the hopstand doesn't extract more ibus. After that, more time means more flavor. You overshoot the ibus, the original recipe has 60 ibus. I wouldn't go higher than 60 for this one personally.

Okay got it. Add hops at < 80C for whirpool. The overshooting is just as of now, brewfather seems to add IBUs for hopstand even though I have it set to 80C, and also I will adjust the recipe later when I know the exact AA of the hops I get from the store

Add the hops at flameout (100 C): more evaporation of essential oils (less flavor & aroma) and more isomerization of alpha acids (more bitterness)
Add the hops to wort at "whirlpool" temps (70-80 C): less evaporation of essential oils (more flavor & aroma) and less isomerization of alpha acids (less bitterness)
These are the reasons flameout and whilrpool/hopstand are considered different additions. However, can you actually taste the difference at a homebrew setting? Who knows...

The question of whether to pull the hops out before starting the chilling from 70-80 C to pitching temps or leaving them in is another question of whether or not you can taste the difference. If I had to guess, there is no significant effect. Perhaps pulling the hops out before starting the final chilling may prevent some vegetal flavors as the "spent hops" are removed as soon as possible? Could it depend on the process itself, as hop matter can help with filtering trub out of the wort in some setups? I don't know - I think your question is excellent!

Thanks for the detailed reply I will cool below 80C before adding my whirpool hops for this one I think. Might leave them in until pitching temp, depends on how lazy I am and how long it takes me to cool from 70-80 -> pitching
Personally I like this situations where "It could make a difference, but would it be noticeable?". They open the door to be a bit lazy in some situations

Lastly, anyone have a good recommendation for Motueka replacement hops? If I buy from my local store, they are out. Unfortunately they are also out of Saaz which is noted as a good replacement. They also recommend Sterling, would that be a good choice? They are in stock but quite expensive

 

[Miraculix]

I wouldn't exceed 3g/l dry hops. I just did 4g/l and it was too much for my personal taste. But it obviously depends on the hops as well. Chinook is very potent, crystal and motueka not so much, don't know about the other one. So when choosing the amount of each that goes into the dry hop, you'd need to account for that. In equal amounts, the strongest will likely overshadow the weaker ones.

 

[Matheos]

I wouldn't exceed 3g/l dry hops. I just did 4g/l and it was too much for my personal taste. But it obviously depends on the hops as well. Chinook is very potent, crystal and motueka not so much, don't know about the other one. So when choosing the amount of each that goes into the dry hop, you'd need to account for that. In equal amounts, the strongest will likely overshadow the weaker ones.

That is true. I do remember chinook being very potent. I expect around 18-20L wort in primary, meaning I could perhaps do around 54g in total or something like that then.
perhaps something like
8g chinook + 15g per each of the others.?

 

[Miraculix]

That is true. I do remember chinook being very potent. I expect around 18-20L wort in primary, meaning I could perhaps do around 54g in total or something like that then.
perhaps something like
8g chinook + 15g per each of the others.?

Decide what you want from the hops and then dry hop accordingly. I love chinook so there wouldn't be anything wrong with just dry hopping with Chinook alone imo. Or Chinook and one of the other hops, maybe motueka/Chinook in a 2/1 ratio. You do not have to include all of them. I actually think that more than two hops usually are not a positive thing for the beer anyway, but that might be just me. I like focus.

 

[Matheos]

Decide what you want from the hops and then dry hop accordingly. I love chinook so there wouldn't be anything wrong with just dry hopping with Chinook alone imo. Or Chinook and one of the other hops, maybe motueka/Chinook in a 2/1 ratio. You do not have to include all of them. I actually think that more than two hops usually are not a positive thing for the beer anyway, but that might be just me. I like focus.

Got ya. I also love chinook so I hear you Might take your advice and just do two in the dry hop. Will see how large packagings I get. Might just throw in some third one too if it really is not much to save. Annoyingly my local brew store sells the hops 100g per package. This is a bit overkill for me so I am considering ordering from a bit further away, still in the country, to get to buy packages as small as 25-50g. Less waste as I don't brew too often Chinook will need a 100g either way

 

[Miraculix]

Yes think practical. I also often throw in the last 15g if I got them left... What to do with them anyway, they won't keep forever once opened.

 

[Matheos]

Yes think practical. I also often throw in the last 15g if I got them left... What to do with them anyway, they won't keep forever once opened.

Exactly!

 

[IslandLizard]

Annoyingly my local brew store sells the hops 100g per package. This is a bit overkill for me so I am considering ordering from a bit further away, still in the country, to get to buy packages as small as 25-50g.

Keep an eye on the price. Smaller packages tend to cost you much more per gram/ounce than larger ones, while shipping cost may not be all that different, and should be included in the total cost of your hops.

I presume you're using hop pellets. They can be easily saved out and stored (deep) frozen for at least a year, likely longer, without adverse effects. Oxygen is what deteriorates your hops, so you want to reduce that as much as possible while being stored.

To open, cut a 2-3 cm corner off the bag. If the bag contains an inside sealing strip, just cut a narrow strip off the top. Key is, you want to reuse the original bags, they're either Mylar or a multilayer oxygen barrier material. So leave as much of the original bag material as you can.

After weighing out your hops, squeeze as much air out of the bag as you can, while re-sealing it. If the bag doesn't have a sealing strip, fold/roll the flap over a few times and tape down to the body of the bag. Keep squeezing the air out while folding/rolling. Then store in the freezer.

An improvement would be to flush/purge the bag with Nitrogen or CO2 gas if you have it available, to purge the air from the bag, then seal as above. You'd stick a skinny hose inside a corner of the bag. Inflate with gas, (give it a shake if you want), squeeze all of it out. seal. Or repeat a few times for more complete purging.

Alternatively you can use a vacuum sealer to remove the air.

Hop flowers can be saved and stored too, in a similar way. They definitely benefit from multiple purge/squeeze cycles using N2 or CO2.

 

[IslandLizard]

just cool the wort to the temperature you want (about 70-80 C) and steep the hops there for 10 or 15 minutes.

Agreed, a hopstand/whirlpool at reduced temps will keep more hop flavor and aroma while curbing bittering at the same time.

+1 on using a different ratio for the dry hops and/or limit the varieties used for the dry hop.

If the Crystal hop is hard to obtain or prohibitively expensive you can substitute her with another:
https://beermaverick.com/hop/crystal/
Crystal is a quite subtle hop, with lowish %AA. Chances are Chinook will overshadow her quickly especially in larger amounts. Keep that in mind.

 

[Miraculix]

That's basically also what I'm doing. Cut the package open, remove the hops needed, squeeze out the air, reseal with tape as good as possible and back into the freezer it goes. Minimal flavour loss over time and almost zero alpha loss.

 

[Matheos]

@IslandLizard Thanks for your tips Yes I have looked at the prices quite a lot and done calculations, and funnily enough, the place from where I have now ordered the smaller hop bags do also have significantly lower prices per 100g. I believe in this case the 5€ shipping is worth it considering the prices and that I prefer to not have a lot left over (even though they keep well in freezer for a long time).
I also do keep my leftover and even unopened hops in the freezer. I have these handy bag clips from IKEA to easily close by bags, as they never have a sealing strip. My method is rather simple, I simply try to get as much air out as possible, by hand, and seal it with a clip.

I believe I visited just that website to find a good replacement for Crystal btw I went with Hersbrücker

I now realize I have some amount of cascade left over from over a year ago (opened) in my freezer lol. Not sure how long I would be comfortable using it for though, I am guessing it was opened October-November 2020. Not relevant for this brew but just interesting to know how long you guys would say the hops comfortably stay well in the freezer?

 

[Miraculix]

@IslandLizard Thanks for your tips Yes I have looked at the prices quite a lot and done calculations, and funnily enough, the place from where I have now ordered the smaller hop bags do also have significantly lower prices per 100g. I believe in this case the 5€ shipping is worth it considering the prices and that I prefer to not have a lot left over (even though they keep well in freezer for a long time).
I also do keep my leftover and even unopened hops in the freezer. I have these handy bag clips from IKEA to easily close by bags, as they never have a sealing strip. My method is rather simple, I simply try to get as much air out as possible, by hand, and seal it with a clip.

I believe I visited just that website to find a good replacement for Crystal btw I went with Hersbrücker

I now realize I have some amount of cascade left over from over a year ago (opened) in my freezer lol. Not sure how long I would be comfortable using it for though, I am guessing it was opened October-November 2020. Not relevant for this brew but just interesting to know how long you guys would say the hops comfortably stay well in the freezer?

Five years.