BrewCommander - Impressive offering from John

[Re:find]

All I want is to be able to start heating my HLT while I'm asleep, mash in right when I wake up, and have it control a separate element in my RIMS for stepped mashes.

So far it looks like this will do it.

I'm hoping the relay module will allow me to control (2) separate elements, independently, with (1) control module.

-TC

 

[sfrisby]

All I want is to be able to start heating my HLT while I'm asleep, mash in right when I wake up, and have it control a separate element in my RIMS for stepped mashes.

So far it looks like this will do it.

I'm hoping the relay module will allow me to control (2) separate elements, independently, with (1) control module.

-TC

I too am interested in exactly what the relay module does. There’s lots of potential but I can’t find anything that explains its purpose yet.

 

[Zooksta]

I'm hoping the relay module will allow me to control (2) separate elements, independently, with (1) control module.

The relay module is only to control multiple elements at the same time in a single vessel. It can only control the temp of one unit at a time. You would need to purchase two controllers to independently control two elements at the same time.

 

[Re:find]

That’s very, very dumb.

Their PCB should have at least (2) triggered outputs to control the SSRs, allowing them to be independent. The cost would be negligible, and I don’t need (2) sets of brains to control (2) elements. Seems like a no brainer to be honest.

If the only point of the relay module is to control two elements in one vessel, why not just get a hotter element?

-TC

 

[Re:find]

I heard back from Blichmann, answers in bold:

" - Will (1) controller and (1) relay allow me to power (2) heating elements independently from one another? For instance, can I use (1) element in a HLT and (1) in a RIMS, cycling on and off at different set values?
No, the module is for use with a kettle that has more than one heating element in the same kettle. Our 55 Boilermakers have 2 BoilCoils installed in them.

- If down the road I replace the 30A solid state relay with a 50A model, will there be any issues pushing elements at a higher wattage?
Yes , the wiring in the controller is only rated for 30 amps. We do not offer a 50 amp BrewCommander.

- Why is there no “HLT” section on the main screen? I want to be able to heat my HLT up to my desired temp while I’m asleep, then wake up and mash in
There is delay timer function you can set for up to 24 hours and the temp you want to set it for."

So, sounds like some re-wiring will allow for a 50A SSR, though they (obviously) won't warranty it or recommend it. Also confirmed that you must buy (2) controllers to power (2) elements, making it much less attractive, price wise.

I'm placing an order for one and will be using it for my HLT and RIMS, just unplugging between steps and moving power to the other element. I'm also going to try and find a tri-clamp thermowell for the sensor as I don't want any threaded parts on my setup.

-TC

 

[Zooksta]

So, sounds like some re-wiring will allow for a 50A SSR, though they (obviously) won't warranty it or recommend it. Also confirmed that you must buy (2) controllers to power (2) elements, making it much less attractive, price wise.

I'm placing an order for one and will be using it for my HLT and RIMS, just unplugging between steps and moving power to the other element. I'm also going to try and find a tri-clamp thermowell for the sensor as I don't want any threaded parts on my setup.

I ended up ordering two of these, one 240V to switch between my HLT and BK, and one 120V for my RIMS. I just finished setting it up yesterday, looking forward to brew day.

 

[Re:find]

I ended up ordering two of these, one 240V to switch between my HLT and BK, and one 120V for my RIMS. I just finished setting it up yesterday, looking forward to brew day.

Awesome! My LHBS can't log in to the new Blichmann portal, but mine should be ordered within the week once that's resolved. Please post your findings once you've used it a couple of times.

-TC

 

[Zooksta]

Please post your findings once you've used it a couple of times.

Will do, might be a few weekends away though. It is very easy to use, worked great for heating cleaning water yesterday.

 

[nonstoptr]

Any thoughts on how this compares to the Auber Cube (s)? I am leaning towards a ready to use controller or kit instead of doing it myself from parts and had been looking at the Auber cube or ebiab controller. This seems a lot more user friendly but I don't want to sacrifice any capabilities I could have with these other systems.

 

[Bobby_M]

They are similar in function. The economy cube does not have schedule timers built in but the advanced does. The cubes have two pump outputs if that matters to you. I haven't verified the temp holding capability of the commander yet but I do know that it's based on a minimum 1 second cycle time whereas the cubes are way faster. Whether that affects overshoot or accuracy remains to be seen. Neither is more user friendly than the other. Spend an hour messing around with either one and you'll get how it works. The EZboil controller in the cube does have a very intuitive knob to dial in settings. How much that matters probably depends on how you feel about a volume knob on a car stereo vs up/down arrows/touchscreens. I'm a dial guy myself.

 

[nonstoptr]

Thanks for chiming in Bobby! I actually just ordered a bunch of my electric brewing setup from you, only waiting to decide on a controller. I’m planning on mostly doing ebiab with the occasional batch using a cooler mash tun for larger batch sizes or bigger beers. Seems I can’t go wrong either way with these controllers, just need to decide if the extra money is worth it.

 

[Ragtop232]

For me, the big difference is screen size and UI (user interface). The UI is very straight forward and makes logical sense and it's touch screen. Every PID I've encountered leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to configuration and then troubleshooting settings if anything goes wrong.

 

[LittleRiver]

...Neither is more user friendly than the other...

Bobby, what have you been smoking!?

The BrewCommander has an interface that makes it immediately obvious how to use the unit without any training or prior knowledge of the device. It's so obvious that you don't even have to read the documentation to use it. That is a well designed user interface.

Kudos to Blichmann on this one.

 

[stork1025]

Is there a way to turn the element off completely with the Brewcommander? I recently used a controller that used a ezboil for the brains. I set the power to zero in boil mode and still fried my element when chilling.

 

[Bobby_M]

Bobby, what have you been smoking!?

The BrewCommander has an interface that makes it immediately obvious how to use the unit without any training or prior knowledge of the device. It's so obvious that you don't even have to read the documentation to use it. That is a well designed user interface.

Kudos to Blichmann on this one.

I grant your right to your opinion but it's just not my experience (no smoke necessary). Do you have one yet? Have you brewed on it? Have you used the EZboil?

I've been screwing around with electric brewing for 7 years and have used my share of controllers both homebuilt and commercial. I have been using a controller with the EZboil DSPR-120 in it for the past two years. It took me 15 minutes to understand how it works while my kettle was filled with water. I DID need the manual to understand what was going on.... that one time mostly because the program attributes are abbreviated for the smaller LCD display.

I now have the Blichmann brew commander hooked up and I did run a batch on it. No, it was not immediately intuitive to me and took about the same 15 minutes of mashing virtual buttons to understand the GUI enough to get through my brew day. Even giving it allowance for user familiarity, this is the first time in 7 years that I had a massive boilover on my electric system. The reason for this is that I've grown so accustomed to the Boil Acceleration feature on the EZboil that I took it for granted. I'm sure there's a way to use the Mash schedules feature on the brewcommander to come up to a safe 205F, but preboil rest but there's no automation to jump directly into a boil process at 60% output after that temp is reached. Score one for the EZboil. Still not smoking anything.

I'm not saying it's not a functional controller. I'm saying it's not the end all solution with no cons.

 

[Bobby_M]

Is there a way to turn the element off completely with the Brewcommander? I recently used a controller that used a ezboil for the brains. I set the power to zero in boil mode and still fried my element when chilling.

No, it doesn't have a positive disconnect on the hots leading to the element. Both the hard toggle switch and the soft on/off button do not activate any relays or contactors. It simply disrupts the signal to the SSR. That means an SSR fail open will keep the element running.

 

[LittleRiver]

... Still not smoking anything. I'm not saying it's not a functional controller. I'm saying it's not the end all solution with no cons.

Bobby, did you not notice the that I included with my comment? My intent was obviously lighthearted. Posting your resume in response.....well you're free to do that. I'll refrain from posting my resume of designing user interfaces for systems far more complicated that what's under consideration here.

For the record I never said the BrewCommander was the end all solution. I said Blichmann did a great job with the user interface, and I'll stand by that.

 

[Bobby_M]

Bobby, did you not notice the that I included with my comment? My intent was obviously lighthearted. Posting your resume in response.....well you're free to do that. I'll refrain from posting my resume of designing user interfaces for systems far more complicated that what's under consideration here.

For the record I never said the BrewCommander was the end all solution. I said Blichmann did a great job with the user interface, and I'll stand by that.

Ok, we're all a bit hyperbolic so we can just get over that. I only over explain my context because there are a lot of people out there slinging opinions on products without ever using them. I'll stand by my first statement and reiterate. There are pros and cons to both the EZboil and BC. Yes, the BC has a slick touchscreen user interface and it's the best current commercial plug and play option for under $400. However, based on my initial trials with it, I don't know if I can give up my ezboil. A word of warning to casual bystanders, make sure you don't lump the Auber Ezboil based controllers in with simple PID units. It's a different animal completely.

 

[RockfordWhite]

Curious about avoiding boil overs. The benefit of the EZBoil, not including the boil acceleration feature, is that turning down the element is super quick, just turn, as opposed to the Brew Commander would be a minimum of 4 button presses (click power, two numbers for %, save). I assume the smart thing to do would be when you are approaching boil, power off the element briefly, then re set to lower temp and turn on? Though I just assumed that the Auto power would throttle the power down, but i guess they can't sense boil over, it's just trying to maintain temps.

Also, if they don't power off the SSR, i assume you would recommend to disconnect the element when you are moving into chilling?

When I spoke to them at NHC, the one thing that really worried me, was that they had no way to flash the firmware if they needed to update. They basically said, if there was a major problem they'd have to have everybody send it back and change it. In this day-in-age, it's amazes me that they didn't add a usb port to flash new updates etc.

I ordered one, basically because the price point was too good to pass up, still haven't used it yet. But i'm not gonna lie, i'm quite worried that in < 1 year they'll release a WiFi or updated version with better software based on what they learned.

 

[Bobby_M]

Curious about avoiding boil overs. The benefit of the EZBoil, not including the boil acceleration feature, is that turning down the element is super quick, just turn, as opposed to the Brew Commander would be a minimum of 4 button presses (click power, two numbers for %, save). I assume the smart thing to do would be when you are approaching boil, power off the element briefly, then re set to lower temp and turn on? Though I just assumed that the Auto power would throttle the power down, but i guess they can't sense boil over, it's just trying to maintain temps.

After brewing on the Ezboil a while, you forget how different and effective the approach is. Mash over, switch to boil mode and boom it's heating 100% until it reaches 208F (I selected that) and it automatically drops down to your pre-selected power setting (60% for me). 50 batches and never a boil over. The reason this is so effective is that it's actually a clever combination of PID-like temp control followed by PWM power control.

Contrast to the BC, The mash mode is the only place it does things based on temp. The boil mode is pure PWM. So far the only approximation I can figure is to start the boil in mash mode with the power set to 100% and the temp target at 210F. It seems OK but it does start slowing the heat down pretty far ahead of time and you have to be there to switch it to proper boil mode. I can probably talk myself into using it but it's not giving me anything new aside from the delay start.

 

[RockfordWhite]

Potential hack solution would be to figure out how many degrees out it starts ramping down the power and then set the mash temp boiling + that number, so maybe set it to 220? Obviously a hacked solution, but possibly could work. From what it looks like to me, the brew commander isn’t any more usable than anything else, it just has the visibility benefits of a screen. In fact, things like I described in my previous post (4 button clicks vs automatic or turn knob) lead me to think it might be less usable. This isn’t surprising or an insult as Blichmann is a brewing equipment company not a software design firm. That being said for the price point, it’s hard to pass up. I’ll give more in depth review once I use it, but worst comes to worst I flip it for a small loss and go with an auber.

 

[nonstoptr]

No, it doesn't have a positive disconnect on the hots leading to the element. Both the hard toggle switch and the soft on/off button do not activate any relays or contactors. It simply disrupts the signal to the SSR. That means an SSR fail open will keep the element running.

Is the auber cube different in this regard? That's one of the things pushing me to build my own controller, being able to have a hard shutoff for the element.

 

[Bobby_M]

The cube has a 2pole breaker that is also yhe switch to turn the whole unit on and off. The one mod I prefer is to move the power feed to the brain and pump switch to upstream of this switch so the electronics come on while allowing,the breaker to be off

Is the auber cube different in this regard? That's one of the things pushing me to build my own controller, being able to have a hard shutoff for the element.

 

[BrunDog]

... it's heating 100% until it reaches 208F (I selected that) and it automatically drops down to your pre-selected power setting (60% for me). 50 batches and never a boil over. The reason this is so effective is that it's actually a clever combination of PID-like temp control followed by PWM power control.

Indeed! An example of brewery automation, improving the brewer's experience (and often, safety). I have a similar setup on mine... heat to 210 at full power, then drop down to a lower power for a few minutes, then drop down again to boil level power. Likewise, never boils-over.

 

[nonstoptr]

I assume this setting is available on all EZ-boil controllers. Do you see any reason to go for the more expensive option other than programmable step mashing?

 

[BeardedBrews]

I assume this setting is available on all EZ-boil controllers. Do you see any reason to go for the more expensive option other than programmable step mashing?

The programmable steps and relays would be the only reason.

 

[Bobby_M]

I assume this setting is available on all EZ-boil controllers. Do you see any reason to go for the more expensive option other than programmable step mashing?

All EZboils have the boil acceleration mode. Having never taken advantage of automated step mashing, I've never appreciated the need. However, it does allow for the delayed start to fire up strike water an hour before breakfast.

In other news, I brewed my second batch on the commander and I did set a temp target of 210F during boil ramp. It didn't boil over but I just wish there was a way to have it flip to boil mode on its own.

 

[RockfordWhite]

All EZboils have the boil acceleration mode. Having never taken advantage of automated step mashing, I've never appreciated the need. However, it does allow for the delayed start to fire up strike water an hour before breakfast.

In other news, I brewed my second batch on the commander and I did set a temp target of 210F during boil ramp. It didn't boil over but I just wish there was a way to have it flip to boil mode on its own.

EDIT: Just saw it in the previous page... my bad!

I just noticed in the manual it requires a minimum of a 35A breaker for 3rd party electric heaters... Is that only if you use 7200W? I don't see why a 5500w 3rd party element would require a larger breaker

 

[Zooksta]

I finally got around to brewing with my two BC units on Saturday and I'm impressed. It's also my first electric brewing experience beside the RIMS tube with the inkbird pid controller, so that might play into my impression. I just recently installed the electrical and picked up a couple 5500 watt TC elements from Brew Hardware.

Anyway, I got the strike water ready the night before, set the delay timer so it was ready when I woke up, mashed in at 6:30 AM, awesome!

The 120V BC did great with the 1650 watt RIMS element, definitely more intuitive than the inkbird. And programming the mash steps into it was super easy, the RIMS protect feature is a great idea too.

When it came to the boil with the 240V BC, I did what Bobby did and set the temp at 210 and just payed attention while it came up to a boil to avoid a boil over. I added fermcap when the foam started to rise though, then switched to boil mode.

I'm pumped on brewing electric, don't regret this investment at all.

 

[Bobby_M]

EDIT: Just saw it in the previous page... my bad!

I just noticed in the manual it requires a minimum of a 35A breaker for 3rd party electric heaters... Is that only if you use 7200W? I don't see why a 5500w 3rd party element would require a larger breaker

It's only if you use a 7200watt. It's only stating maximums.