BrewCommander - Impressive offering from John

[Cato1507]

Anyone else getting very inconsistent temps from the brew commander? I have brewed 5 times so far with this. Not once will it keep a consistent mash temp for example. I am doing full volume biab. Today I set to 152. When it got to 152 my handheld read 146. I mashed in and it would jump all over the place. Up to 162, down to 150 up to 155. I mean it is completely useless. Hand held kept right around 146 so not sure if that was right? Also during boil water started boiling at 210 on hand held but 201 on brew commander. Then it settled in around 208 but hand held was still 210.

I was hoping going electric and using this would make fora very consistent mash temp but not my experience so far at all. Also have had terrible efficiency of around 50-55% during these 5 sessions. Thinking it has to do with not being in a good range during mash because of these readings.

I'm not having any issues at all with mine. I'm using it on a Blichmann 10 gal kettle with 220v boil coil element.
I do run my whirlpool during my mash in BIAB as it keeps the grain bed moving as well as keep the temps from stratifying. I've double checked the readings with a digital probe with no fluctuation issues.

If I don't run the whirlpool I can definitely get a 3-4 degree swing from top to bottom on a full volume 5 gal batch with 10-11 lbs of grain in the bag.
My brewhouse efficiency runs 72- 75% on an average.

There are advanced settings in the BC I believe to adjust/calibrate the temp probe to a known accurate probe reading.
You might want to get on the phone or email customer support to get some help with your issues.

 

[marjen]

Just as a note I do run my whirlpool during mash.

 

[doug293cz]

Just as a note I do run my whirlpool during mash.

If you are going to try to hold temp with PID, etc., then you really need to recirculate or stir very often.

Edit: I misread your post originally. My brain saw a "not" that wasn't there.

Brew on

 

[Bobby_M]

Just as a note I do run my whirlpool during mash.

Explain your system design and where the probe is located.

 

[marjen]

Explain your system design and where the probe is located.

I have a 15 gallon custom spike kettle. It has an electric element and another port for emptying boil kettle about 2” off the bottom. I have a TC port for temp probe about 6-8” from the bottom and a whirlpool port about 2” from the top. I currently use a brew bag. For the temp probe, its from blichmann as is the TC port that holds it. THe temp probe extends about 2-3” into the kettle.



EDIT: as a note, i tried it in several other positions for temp probe. I add the temp probe to the exit port after the TC valve in a T. Tried it a couple different ways there. Was not any more reliable. Actually was much worse in the T being up to 20 F off from hand held thermometer.

 

[RufusBrewer]

Anyone else getting very inconsistent temps from the brew commander? I have brewed 5 times so far with this. Not once will it keep a consistent mash temp for example. I am doing full volume biab. Today I set to 152. When it got to 152 my handheld read 146. I mashed in and it would jump all over the place. Up to 162, down to 150 up to 155. I mean it is completely useless. Hand held kept right around 146 so not sure if that was right? Also during boil water started boiling at 210 on hand held but 201 on brew commander. Then it settled in around 208 but hand held was still 210.

I was hoping going electric and using this would make fora very consistent mash temp but not my experience so far at all. Also have had terrible efficiency of around 50-55% during these 5 sessions. Thinking it has to do with not being in a good range during mash because of these readings.

One thing I have no complaints with the BC is maintaining consistent temps. I always see solid stable temps. +/- .2. deg @ 152. I think a mash run by manually increasing temps will produce a satisfactory mash.

My Thermapen agrees with the BC within one degree.

Few things that I can think of is:
#1 Insulate, insulated, insulation. The more insulation, less heat loss. Less heat loss = the less the BC has to make adjustments.
#2 Put the temp probe close the heat source. If you lose heat between the heat source and the probe, the controller will be chasing, catching up and over shooting temp changes.
#3 Blichmann was smart in providing a couple methods to compensate for system losses. Learn how to use them.
#4 Circulate (or stir) the mash to reduce hot and/or cold spots in the mash.

 

[Bobby_M]

I have a 15 gallon custom spike kettle. It has an electric element and another port for emptying boil kettle about 2” off the bottom. I have a TC port for temp probe about 6-8” from the bottom and a whirlpool port about 2” from the top. I currently use a brew bag. For the temp probe, its from blichmann as is the TC port that holds it. THe temp probe extends about 2-3” into the kettle.



EDIT: as a note, i tried it in several other positions for temp probe. I add the temp probe to the exit port after the TC valve in a T. Tried it a couple different ways there. Was not any more reliable. Actually was much worse in the T being up to 20 F off from hand held thermometer.

I'm positive that your probe location is a major factor because it's in a a pocket of restricted contact and will be out of touch with what's happening in various other parts of the system. The trouble has nothing to do with the controller. My system doesn't vary more than a half a degree whether it's on the EZboil or the Brew Commander. What are you doing for keeping the bag off the element?

I've been experimenting with temp stability in single vessel systems for several years and concluded that the best setup is as follows:

1. Bag/basket held at least 1/4" above the element creating an all liquid space of about 2-3" between the grain and bottom of the pot.
2. Probe installed in this lower 2" area about half way between the element install location and the drain port.
3. Recirculation: In a smaller 5 gallon batch system, you can get away without recirc as long as you stir about every 10 minutes for max stability. For larger systems, or if you don't want to stir, you split the output of your pump between a whirlpool port at about the 2" height (returning into the all liquid mass at the bottom) and the other going to a recirc return in the kettle lid.

This system works on my 15 gallon Spike for 6 gallon batches as well as a couple of my employees that run 25 gallon kettles for 12 and 16 gallon batches. In all cases, even with no insulation at all, the temps are less than 1F off of set point at all times. They also do not overshoot at all even when doing big step rises.

 

[ehk089]

I'm positive that your probe location is a major factor because it's in a a pocket of restricted contact and will be out of touch with what's happening in various other parts of the system. The trouble has nothing to do with the controller. My system doesn't vary more than a half a degree whether it's on the EZboil or the Brew Commander. What are you doing for keeping the bag off the element?

I've been experimenting with temp stability in single vessel systems for several years and concluded that the best setup is as follows:

1. Bag/basket held at least 1/4" above the element creating an all liquid space of about 2-3" between the grain and bottom of the pot.
2. Probe installed in this lower 2" area about half way between the element install location and the drain port.
3. Recirculation: In a smaller 5 gallon batch system, you can get away without recirc as long as you stir about every 10 minutes for max stability. For larger systems, or if you don't want to stir, you split the output of your pump between a whirlpool port at about the 2" height (returning into the all liquid mass at the bottom) and the other going to a recirc return in the kettle lid.

This system works on my 15 gallon Spike for 6 gallon batches as well as a couple of my employees that run 25 gallon kettles for 12 and 16 gallon batches. In all cases, even with no insulation at all, the temps are less than 1F off of set point at all times. They also do not overshoot at all even when doing big step rises.

I’ve also had a lot if weird temperature swings (as stated previously in thread) probably due to using my whirlpool port on ssbrewtech ekettle as my temp port. Do you think if I got a spike basket and used it to recirc constantly during mash that would help my temp problems? And put the probe in a tee where the wort exits the mash? Currently I’m just using a bag without recirc.

 

[RufusBrewer]

You wat the probe to measure the liquid the element is heating. Any heat lost during the liquid's travel will confuse the controller. The delay in time will be detrimental to accuracy. The more powerful the element, the wider the swings.

Avoid placing the probe in a place that relies on your pump working. If your pump fails, gets clogged or otherwise restricted, you can land in trouble pretty quick.

 

[RockfordWhite]

I'm positive that your probe location is a major factor because it's in a a pocket of restricted contact and will be out of touch with what's happening in various other parts of the system. The trouble has nothing to do with the controller. My system doesn't vary more than a half a degree whether it's on the EZboil or the Brew Commander. What are you doing for keeping the bag off the element?

I've been experimenting with temp stability in single vessel systems for several years and concluded that the best setup is as follows:

1. Bag/basket held at least 1/4" above the element creating an all liquid space of about 2-3" between the grain and bottom of the pot.
2. Probe installed in this lower 2" area about half way between the element install location and the drain port.
3. Recirculation: In a smaller 5 gallon batch system, you can get away without recirc as long as you stir about every 10 minutes for max stability. For larger systems, or if you don't want to stir, you split the output of your pump between a whirlpool port at about the 2" height (returning into the all liquid mass at the bottom) and the other going to a recirc return in the kettle lid.

This system works on my 15 gallon Spike for 6 gallon batches as well as a couple of my employees that run 25 gallon kettles for 12 and 16 gallon batches. In all cases, even with no insulation at all, the temps are less than 1F off of set point at all times. They also do not overshoot at all even when doing big step rises.

Just out of curiosity what’s the logic for splitting the pump output? Just to make sure you don’t dry fire? Do you run pump on full blast with this setup?

 

[marjen]

So I was thinking of moving temp probe to wort out valve? Would that help? I only have 2 low ports on my kettle. One is for heating element. The other is for the wort out valve.

 

[Bobby_M]

Just out of curiosity what’s the logic for splitting the pump output? Just to make sure you don’t dry fire? Do you run pump on full blast with this setup?

It's pretty simple. The whirlpool keeps the heated area as mixed as possible so that as soon as the element puts any heat into the system, the probe nearby is picking up the average temp rather than a pocket of hot or cold. The recirculated portion of it goes through the grain to flush any cold areas downward to be heated again.

It does let you run a higher flow rate because only half of it has to get through the grain, but that's not the primary reason.

 

[Bobby_M]

So I was thinking of moving temp probe to wort out valve? Would that help? I only have 2 low ports on my kettle. One is for heating element. The other is for the wort out valve.

I think it would be a slight improvement but it's not going to be rock solid.

 

[marjen]

I think it would be a slight improvement but it's not going to be rock solid.

so are you saying based on my existing ports and desire to brew single vessel I am not going to be able to get consistent mash temps? That is disappointing and now I am wondering what course of action to take next.

 

[Bobby_M]

You can add another port under the bag for the probe and another one for low whirlpool. It's a pain in the butt, but that will solve your problem.

 

[marjen]

Here are the port placements on the BK. So adding another port about 2” of the bottom would solve the problem?
my other option is to try and go back to my original idea to use 2 vessels. I have a mash tun. However I was having efficiency issues trying to do 2 vessel and kind of gave up went back to BIAB. Never quite figured out best process for 2V even though it seems some others have.

 

[Bobby_M]

Yeah I personally loathe 2 vessel systems. Yes, you could get away with a whirlpool port at the same height as the drain for the whirlpool. You can save some money by installing the blichmann probe using their standards weldless bulkhead install method by drilling a 1/2" hole..... or yet another TC port to put the probe into.

 

[RufusBrewer]

I am a BIAB guy. I looked at a two vessel system. The only compelling reason I can see is to go 2 vessel would be to use a grain bill greater than what my BIAB set up can accommodate.

I guess another reason to go with a two a 2 vessel system might be if there something about a mash tun is more convenient or easier to deal with compared to lifting a bag of wet grain.

John Palmer calculates BIAB to be 78.0% and no sparge to be 70.7%. So I need to make a significantly higher OG and (and grain bill) to go in that direction.

Interesting, John Palmer calculates higher efficiency for sparges in metric units than imperial units. Somehow the mash knows if you weighed the grain and water in pounds/quarts as opposed to kilograms/liters.

 

[Nick Poggetti]

Regarding the temp probe location discussion from the past page or two... I have the a boilcoil in my kettle, so installing the probe fitting down low would be awfully close to the element no matter where I rotate the location. Would that be a big deal?

 

[Bobby_M]

Regarding the temp probe location discussion from the past page or two... I have the a boilcoil in my kettle, so installing the probe fitting down low would be awfully close to the element no matter where I rotate the location. Would that be a big deal?

I would put some kind of false bottom in there to create a cavity below the bag. Even if it's only 1" tall and sits in the interior of the boil coil, it's better than letting the bag sit on the bottom. It's the only way a recirculation is going to travel in a vertical laminar flow through the grain. If you do that, you can install the probe under that FB or at the very least, directly on drain.

 

[Nick Poggetti]

Right on. I have an old 10 gallon false bottom that fits just inside the 20 gallon boilcoil that should do the trick without needs to get something which I will give a go next batch. Thank you!

 

[WesBrew]

I've enjoyed using My BC, but temp readings have been way off in the kettle, I was having to do a 7 degree calibration adjustment to get it closer to other thermometers, boiling at 203..etc. tech support wasn't any help.
Today I try a factory reset and all is good.
it seems the rims offset of 8 degrees I had in advanced setting that I thought only applied during a mash threw off the temp reading no mater what I was doing. I guess you have to go in there and set it during the mash if you are using a herms, then zero it out during the boil or hlt heat up. Is this right? its annoying.

 

[Bobby_M]

Wow, that doesn't sound right to me. What mode do you have in action during the boil? On or Auto? I would expect the RIMS offset to be factored in if you use AUTO but not "ON". However, that doesn't really solve the issue of heating up to strike unless you just remember to set the strike temp at temp minus offset.

 

[WesBrew]

Tested, reached set temp in auto. Plugged in 2 degrees rims, checked, BC immediately read 2 degrees low. I know it was way off on boil too. Seems to be right on now. I’ll have to test it in the “on” position to be sure
-in that mode though, I think BC stays heating at your set pwr % and doesn’t stop at a set temp

 

[WesBrew]

Two brews over the weekend. I left the rims field and calibration blank. All was perfect. Its easy enough to set your mash schedule and actual temp, hit play. Then bump up the temp as needed for your herms from the Home Screen

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Can the 30A, 240 VAC Blichmann BrewCommander be used with a typical Camco 5500 Watt Ultra Low Watt Density heater element, or must it be used exclusively with a Blichmann BoilCoil heater element?

 

[WesBrew]

Sure. Just get the right plug.

 

[RufusBrewer]

Can the 30A, 240 VAC Blichmann BrewCommander be used with a typical Camco 5500 Watt Ultra Low Watt Density heater element, or must it be used exclusively with a Blichmann BoilCoil heater element?

The brewcommander is agnostic about what it will control. Voltage, current and power disapation is your concern.

And to reinforce wesbrew, make sure the power in socket and power out socket matches your existing or planned set up.

 

[ehk089]

Anybody figured out how to get it to talk to the ssbrewtech ekettle temp probe?

 

[Bobby_M]

Anybody figured out how to get it to talk to the ssbrewtech ekettle temp probe?

They are probably different sensor technologies altogether.