Brew on Premise Laws

[drinking12many]

another shop in wv that wants to do bop in wv.

mountain man wine and brew supply.we would like to offer that to prospective homebrewers in the panhandle.

any one have info on beer or wine on premises in wv?

There are a couple in wv, there is morgantown brewing company obviously in morgantown. They BOP and have nice big windows looking into the brewing area from part of the bar. They even have homebrewing classes which I havent attended yet but want to. I http://www.morgantownbrewing.com/

There is also Mountain State Brewing. I believe they brew in their store in Thomas, WV (near blackwater falls), but they have a couple other pubs one in Morgantown and another in deep creek, md. I am not 100% sure the BOP in Thomas as I was only there once briefly. Their pizza is awesome though as well. http://mountainstatebrewing.com/

I have heard Bent Willey's bar in morgantown also has a small brewery on site but its more of a college bar and I haven't been in there in probably 5-6 years at least. BA has it listed so they may still have it. http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/7261 but Id guess its pretty bad and just catering to the college kids.

Also there is Blackwater Brewing I ate there as well the beer wasnt to bad if I remember its been a few years its also near blackwater falls. They serve some german food and Im sure thats why we ate there. http://www.blackwater-brewing.com/

 

[rico567]

Based on everything I've read here (as it pertains to the OP), I'm afraid it amounts to one of the most dreaded sentences I can imagine: "Sounds like you need a lawyer."*

*Note: That sentence is in quotes because I'm not saying anyone needs a lawyer. I lack sufficient information about the laws and regulations of the State of Indiana. What I would be more likely to say is "It looks like you MAY need a lawyer, or not, and I pray to God you don't."

 

[1MountainManbrewsupply]

There are a couple in wv, there is morgantown brewing company obviously in morgantown. They BOP and have nice big windows looking into the brewing area from part of the bar. They even have homebrewing classes which I havent attended yet but want to. I http://www.morgantownbrewing.com/

There is also Mountain State Brewing. I believe they brew in their store in Thomas, WV (near blackwater falls), but they have a couple other pubs one in Morgantown and another in deep creek, md. I am not 100% sure the BOP in Thomas as I was only there once briefly. Their pizza is awesome though as well. http://mountainstatebrewing.com/

I have heard Bent Willey's bar in morgantown also has a small brewery on site but its more of a college bar and I haven't been in there in probably 5-6 years at least. BA has it listed so they may still have it. http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/7261 but Id guess its pretty bad and just catering to the college kids.

Also there is Blackwater Brewing I ate there as well the beer wasnt to bad if I remember its been a few years its also near blackwater falls. They serve some german food and Im sure thats why we ate there. http://www.blackwater-brewing.com/

thank you for the replies fella's.
but we are not interested in being a brew pub. we would like to offer b.o.p. for wine and beer. as well as brewing supplies.
we would offer a place to brew a recipe of you're choosing from our books with our oversight and training. we would store your beer or wine in progress and when it needs bottling or racking, you return and go through the process with us.

we are trying to take a model from the cracked cork or flying barrel in maryland and apply it to our shop in wv. in md there is a license called "family beer and wine facility permit" that allows all that and then some.

md pa va all have fairly liberal laws regarding homebrewing but wva is a bit backwards. they regulate "non-alcoholic beer " as being of .5% to 9.5%. and homebrewed wine seems illegal. dont get it.

we are sitting with an attorney today to find out more.

 

[theyeastmaster]

1MountainMan...you ever find out what the laws/regulations are for BOP in WV? Thinking about starting something up...

 

[1MountainManbrewsupply]

we did get it in writing that there is no license that governs a b.o.p/ w.o.p.

and they did not say that we couldnt do it.

so we are off and running and following the rules and regulations set forth by the feds that governs b.o.p./ w.o.p... ttb regs 27 cfr 25.205-25.206

 

[runs4beer]

we did get it in writing that there is no license that governs a b.o.p/ w.o.p. and they did not say that we couldnt do it.

Sorry, who's "they," WV's ABC?

 

[F250]

Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.

Never get between the government and your money, never!

Rick

 

[1MountainManbrewsupply]

Sorry, who's "they," WV's ABC?

yes . our attorney went to their legal dept and finally got them to put their reply in writing.

 

[Phunhog]

we did get it in writing that there is no license that governs a b.o.p/ w.o.p.

and they did not say that we couldnt do it.

so we are off and running and following the rules and regulations set forth by the feds that governs b.o.p./ w.o.p... ttb regs 27 cfr 25.205-25.206

We were talking about this in another thread a while back. Obviously it is legal at a federal level for a BOP to operate. It seems to me though that all the restrictions they place on you regarding who can do what while making the beer aren't actually legal restrictions. They aren't in the text of the law anywhere..but rather are TTB guidelines which aren't enforceable. They even say they are guidelines here...http://www.ttb.gov/beer/beer-faqs.shtml#b1. Any thoughts?

 

[1MountainManbrewsupply]

exactly. thats where we got our info.

so being that wv really has no license that governs our industry we felt that conforming to ttb guidelines would be the way to go just in case the law were to step in and demand to see what we are doing.

we did not want to press the issue with wvabc since the laws are about as clear as mud. hell the way they classify beer is just ridiculous."nonintoxicating beer" is .5% to 6%.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

We were talking about this in another thread a while back. Obviously it is legal at a federal level for a BOP to operate. It seems to me though that all the restrictions they place on you regarding who can do what while making the beer aren't actually legal restrictions. They aren't in the text of the law anywhere..but rather are TTB guidelines which aren't enforceable. They even say they are guidelines here...http://www.ttb.gov/beer/beer-faqs.shtml#b1. Any thoughts?

WTF? Aren't enforceable??

Seriously, please stop. Some idiot who is too cheap or lazy to seek out actual legal advice is going to believe your nonsense and get themselves into a whole mess of trouble. Agencies are empowered with rulemaking powers by several statutes. Their rulemaking power creates "law" even though it isn't enacted by a legislature.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

exactly. thats where we got our info.

so being that wv really has no license that governs our industry we felt that conforming to ttb guidelines would be the way to go just in case the law were to step in and demand to see what we are doing.

we did not want to press the issue with wvabc since the laws are about as clear as mud. hell the way they classify beer is just ridiculous."nonintoxicating beer" is .5% to 6%.

Yeah, and why obtain legal advice and make sure you are conforming to the law. They will probably give you a passed because you took a guess.

 

[Phunhog]

WTF? Aren't enforceable??

Seriously, please stop. Some idiot who is too cheap or lazy to seek out actual legal advice is going to believe your nonsense and get themselves into a whole mess of trouble. Agencies are empowered with rulemaking powers by several statutes. Their rulemaking power creates "law" even though it isn't enacted by a legislature.

I am sorry...maybe you can shed some light on the difference between federal law and a federal agency guidleline? Is there any sort of legal difference like the difference between an infraction, misdemeanor, and felony? I wasn't aware that a gov't agency can just make up their own laws and regulations without some sort of legislation.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I wasn't aware that a gov't agency can just make up their own laws and regulations without some sort of legislation.

Which is a good reason why you shouldn't be going around telling other people how the law works.

 

[Phunhog]

Which is a good reason why you shouldn't be going around telling other people how the law works.

I am just sharing what is on the TTB site. They state the "guidelines" for operating a BOP, which aren't mentioned in the CFR (Code of Federal Regulations). Since it seems like you have a law background can you please explain the difference between a federal law and a federal agency guideline. I have a hard believing that a law enacted by Congress carries the same weight as an agency guideline.

 

[1MountainManbrewsupply]

Yeah, and why obtain legal advice and make sure you are conforming to the law. They will probably give you a passed because you took a guess.

please read back through the thread bud. we actually had our attorney contact wvabc's legal dept. we would not guess at something such as this.why go through all the hell and expense of starting a retail business if the state is just going to shut it down?

our atty told us to go by those guidelines and defer to that rather than blaze our own trail. and i actually like it that way. the customer gets a better understanding of the process and can feel good about homebrewing and not feel like it's rocket science and if they bail on it than we have already collected his money for the class time and brew ingredients(grain bill) and we finish the process and keep his beer.

havent had anyone do that yet though.

 

[evilleadam]

Update for this thread. Looks like it is going to be WAY too much red tape to get a BOP law approved in Indiana. doing the next best thing. A brew supply shop that also sells produced beers for pick up via growlers. I will have experienced home brewers compete to have their product produced(by the winner) and sold at the location. This would be considered an employee and is 100% legal in the state.

We would then split the proceeds of any sales on site.

Follow my journey and talk home brew @YouBrew via facebook

Is there any update on this ? The only YouBrew on Facebook appears to be in California. I am very interested in the idea of opening a BOP, but I too live in Indiana. I did not realize the red tape would be so thick!