Brew days too long!

[TimelessCynic]

I find my brew days are too long. Any problem with mashing one day, storing wort for several days then boiling and pitching on another day?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Yooper]

The only issue would be contamination of the wort with souring bacteria. A non-hopped wort that hasn't been boiled may sour within 24 hours. Boiling will kill those bacteria but can't change the flavor back once it is a bit soured.

You could bring the wort to a boil briefly before sticking it in the fridge, but that would only shave off about 45 minutes of the brewday if you're brewing the wort to a boil anyway for 15 minutes to sanitize it.

 

[Jayhem]

I've heard people have done it that way with no real problems. Just be sure to refrigerate or keep the wort cold till you brew so bacteria doesn't set in and make nasty chemicals in your wort!

To shorten my All-Grain brew days here are my tricks:
1. Make yeast starter several days before, store in fridge till brew day
2. Mill all grain a day or two early and have it in a bucket, ready to go.
3. Have all hops, brewing salts, fining agents, etc. weighed out and labeled in zip-lock bags, ready for adding to kettle.
4. Set up a table next to your brew station and lay out all items necessary before you begin so you won't be running around looking for something in the middle of brewing.
5. Make sure you have a second propane tank full!
6. If it's not too cold, a garden hose with sprayer is 100X faster to clean up your equipment than doing it inside in a small sink!
7. Plan your brew day to also do other projects or chores during the mash and boil and set timers on your phone so you won't miss a step!

My All Grain brew days take about 4 hours from heating the strike water to pitching yeast.

 

[poptarts]

Start brew day at 7 be done and clean by lunch. just keep you stuff organized. Making a brew stand made my brew day shorter and easier too.

 

[TimelessCynic]

Thanks for the input guys. What about letting my wort freeze in my brew pot overnight? Just leave it outside. That should limit the souring.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[broadbill]

Yooper is correct; there is so much bacteria on the grains it will sour within hours if you don't boil it immediately.

You could try no-chill brewing where you put the boiled, still hot wort into a temperature resistant container, then pitch the yeast after its cooled...any hours typically. That would save you the time it takes to chill.

 

[fartinmartin]

To shorten my brew day I need to prepare before hand, getting grain weighed and water ready even my hops in separate little bags ready for addition. Then on brew day an agreeable helper, who will do all the clean up as the items are finished with, who is never in the way , who never comes up with "we could do this or that", who isn't busy drinking a beer just when I need that extra hand and who is exactly on my wavelength.
I suppose that's why I have to brew on my own and suffer the long brew day.

 

[kombat]

You can do it, but as mentioned, you won't really save that much time in the long run and you're risking contaminating your wort.

Perhaps it would be more helpful if you defined how long is "too long," and how long would be an acceptable time investment. Like the others, my brew day takes between 5-6 hours from the time I light the burner and start heating strike water till the time the last piece of equipment is scrubbed and put away.

I've also recently gotten into making 1 gallon BIAB batches. I'm finding these are MUCH faster to make. Perhaps you should give that a try and see if maybe that's a better fit for your interests and time constraints?

 

[broadbill]

Thanks for the input guys. What about letting my wort freeze in my brew pot overnight? Just leave it outside. That should limit the souring.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

It Depend on how long it takes for it to freeze, but if it spends an appreciable amount of time between 40-140F, that is where you will have souring.

Unless you have an active chilling process going on, I bet you would have some sour going on by the time it froze.

There are time-savings to be had, but AG requires a few hours minimum because the process. If you can't fit it in there is always extract brewing.

 

[stpug]

20 Prep, fill HLT
20 get to strike temp
45 mash at high 150s
10 sparge, batch, fast
20 heat to boil w/ good burner
60 boil wort
10 cool wort
20 transfer, pitch, clean
----------------
3 hrs 25 minutes

That's about as fast as I could see a brewday getting done, but it would require a great burner that can bring large volume of water up to temp really quickly. It also requires a high 150s mash for a shorter duration followed by a pretty quick lauter.

My typical day adds at least 1.5 hours (5 hrs total) to this due to slower burner; slower lauter; longer mash; longer prep/cleanup process. If I'm brewing a low mash temp beer then add 15-30 minutes; if I'm brewing a really hoppy beer than add 30-45 minutes for a hop steep.

What does your brewday look like? Maybe we can help you organize your time/process to reduce the time it takes. Keep in mind, a reduction of time in the brewday generally means that you're doing more when you are doing things (i.e. grinding grain and weighting salts during the strike water heatup; weighing out hops and heating sparge water during the mash; washing vessels that were already used during the next step of your process; etc...)

 

[aiptasia]

That's also what I would suggest. Work on your Mis En Place. I try to get all of my equipment cleaned the day before so that if it needs just a quick hit with sanitizer from a spray bottle, that's all it takes. I get all of my ingredients weighted out, crushed and organized the day before brew day, too. I make very sure that each step in my brewing process is a lesson in efficiency and time management.

I'm very very anal on brew day and after i'm finished each stage of brewing, I not only move on to the next but also clean up as I go. For example, after a mash session, i'll go ahead and clean out my mash tun or BIAB equipment while the beer is heating up to boil. During wort cooling, i'm cleaning out my hops spider and/or grain bags.

My brew session is typically about two and a half hours. On my most complex brew days, I might go four hours if i'm doing something like step mashing.

 

[JonM]

Too long? What's the hurry?

You know that old saying, a bad day [golfing/fishing/ other hobby-ing] is better than a good day working.

 

[TimelessCynic]

If i time everything correctly I'm a little under 5 hours. That requires a lot of concentration so i generally get lazy and make it in 6-7 hrs. If i start at 5 pm its not uncommon for me to finish up at midnight which is a little late. Or if I'm drunk enough i get over zealous and start at 7 pm and then I'm in real ****.

I could not do 1 gal BIAB, not for me. I got 6 full kegs and more in fermentors now. Volume is important.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[TimelessCynic]

It Depend on how long it takes for it to freeze, but if it spends an appreciable amount of time between 40-140F, that is where you will have souring.



Unless you have an active chilling process going on, I bet you would have some sour going on by the time it froze.



There are time-savings to be had, but AG requires a few hours minimum because the process. If you can't fit it in there is always extract brewing.

Interesting......i guess i can chill my barley liquid with my wort chiller down to 50 F. Should only take 10 minutes or so. Then just leave it to freeze overnight. It's between 14 and -4 F at night here.

I can't go to extract. It's not for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[kombat]

20 transfer, pitch, clean

Wow, I would LOVE to see you transfer into a carboy, sufficiently aerate, pitch the yeast, and then clean everything up in 20 minutes. That's got to be some kind of record.

It takes me at least 5 minutes to transfer (I rack from my kettle to a carboy with an autosiphon), then I carry the carboy downstairs, sanitize my Fizz-X rod and aerate for a good 3-4 minutes, whipping up a good froth. Then I sanitize a funnel and dump in the yeast, then sanitize, assemble, and attach an airlock.

Then I spend the next hour cleaning everything.

 

[poptarts]

cleaning mash tun during the boil really helps speed up the brew day. Clean everything as soon as you can! by the time you rack you beer into your fermenter you should only have the chiller and bk to clean up.

 

[Hello]

To shave 45 minutes off your brew day and risk whatever could happen seems hardly worth it. If you can't carve out enough time then perhaps move back to extract, carve out the time you need and brew less if you have others pulling you in other directions, or don't maybe brew at all. All that aside, I've heard of people mashing and letting it rest overnight. They seem to report that they're okay. It may be worth totally screwing up a batch to find out if that will suffice.

I like the time spent brewing. I carve out most of the day and I try to keep things in such a way that I maximize my time. I have zero commitments in life. No one is pulling me to hang out, no children looking around for a damn sandwich, and family is too far away to care about me wasting a day. Most people don't have that "benefit" so I understand. Still, I like the time I can spend brewing, even the cleanup most times. Perhaps just try and schedule a day a month, if not more, to have a brew day.

My brew days are still on the long side. I think I started at 10:30 am Saturday and I was done by 4. That may just be the shortest all grain brew day that I have had yet. I hope to see that number go down, I'd like to get down to about 4.5 hours so I can consider doing another beer that day or spend time bottling. I'm in no rush though so that could explain why I lag. I also clean as I go. If I have a beer too many to bring me to buzz status, cleaning does start to suck. The MT & HLT (pot) gets cleaned while the boil is going. The junk laying around is picked up while the wort cools, and so forth.

 

[kombat]

If i time everything correctly I'm a little under 5 hours. That requires a lot of concentration so i generally get lazy and make it in 6-7 hrs.

That sounds pretty standard. Have you thought about trying early morning brewing? A lot of us like to brew first thing in the morning, as it lets us finish up around lunch time and we still have the rest of the day to do other stuff. I often start my brew day at 5:40 AM, which is when I normally wake up to go to work anyway. Except instead of going to work, I get to make beer.

5:40 - 6:00 Wake up, put in contact lenses, get dressed, whatever
6:00 - 6:20 Heat strike water, mill grains (weighed-out the night before)
6:20 - 6:30 Dough-in, seal mash tun
6:30 - 7:15 Make breakfast, watch some TV, whatever
7:15 - 7:30 Heat sparge water
7:30 - 7:45 Vorlauf, draw first runnings, batch sparge. Start heating first runnings.
7:45 - 8:00 Collect second runnings, add to pot, continue heating.
8:00 - 8:15 Heat to boil, wait for hot break, start timer
8:15 - 9:15 Boil
9:15 - 9:30 Knockout, chill to 65° F, rehydrate yeast
9:30 - 9:45 Rack to fermenter
9:45 - 10:00 Carry fermenter downstairs, aerate, pitch yeast, affix airlock
10:00 - 11:00 Clean up, put everything away

 

[TimelessCynic]

I want to split my brew day in half even if that means adding some time to each half if it can be accomplished by combing two days work. I think i got it with my frozen barley liquid idea (can I call it wort if it hasn't boiled?) some posts were helpful most were not. Still, i appreciate all the input.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[broadbill]

Wow, I would LOVE to see you transfer into a carboy, sufficiently aerate, pitch the yeast, and then clean everything up in 20 minutes. That's got to be some kind of record.

It takes me at least 5 minutes to transfer (I rack from my kettle to a carboy with an autosiphon), then I carry the carboy downstairs, sanitize my Fizz-X rod and aerate for a good 3-4 minutes, whipping up a good froth. Then I sanitize a funnel and dump in the yeast, then sanitize, assemble, and attach an airlock.

Then I spend the next hour cleaning everything.

Don't forget the 10 minutes to chill 5 gallons of boiling liquid to pitch temp ...that must be some chiller!

 

[dobe12]

I BIAB, all grain, full volume boil, 5 gallon batches and I have it down to about 4-5hrs tops. This includes pulling out all my equipment all the way through putting it away.

A few things I do to save time. Weigh out my grain the day before. Get my mash water going. While warming I start pulling out everything else I need and mill my grain. While the mash is resting for an hour I weigh out my hops and get any and all other ingredients out and ready. With 15min left in the mash I get my sparge water up to temp. While the sack of grain is sitting in the sparge water, I'm bringing my wort from the mash up to a boil. Add the sparge water and start the boil. While boiling I start cleaning up anything that's already used and not needed again. I fill a bucket with starsan solution and get everything in there that I'll need once the boil is done. While cooling, I clean everything else that can be cleaned. By the time I rack to a carboy and pitch all I have left to clean is the brew kettle, racking cane and tubing, and the wort chiller. Everything else is already cleaned, dried, and ready to be put away.

Someone mentioned "what's the rush"? Long answer made short, wife and kids. They don't bother me while brewing and are very supportive (I get about 2 brew days in a month), but that doesn't mean I can spend 7-8hrs on a Sat/Sun brewing. I'm sure when my son gets a little older (he's about to turn 2 in 2 weeks) he'll be my helper and the days will get a little longer, but at least that's time we're spending together. I'm also sure the wife will enjoy some alone time.

 

[TimelessCynic]

That sounds pretty standard. Have you thought about trying early morning brewing? A lot of us like to brew first thing in the morning, as it lets us finish up around lunch time and we still have the rest of the day to do other stuff. I often start my brew day at 5:40 AM, which is when I normally wake up to go to work anyway. Except instead of going to work, I get to make beer.



5:40 - 6:00 Wake up, put in contact lenses, get dressed, whatever

6:00 - 6:20 Heat strike water, mill grains (weighed-out the night before)

6:20 - 6:30 Dough-in, seal mash tun

6:30 - 7:15 Make breakfast, watch some TV, whatever

7:15 - 7:30 Heat sparge water

7:30 - 7:45 Vorlauf, draw first runnings, batch sparge. Start heating first runnings.

7:45 - 8:00 Collect second runnings, add to pot, continue heating.

8:00 - 8:15 Heat to boil, wait for hot break, start timer

8:15 - 9:15 Boil

9:15 - 9:30 Knockout, chill to 65° F, rehydrate yeast

9:30 - 9:45 Rack to fermenter

9:45 - 10:00 Carry fermenter downstairs, aerate, pitch yeast, affix airlock

10:00 - 11:00 Clean up, put everything away

I can only start after work. I spend weekends doing things with my wife. Your schedule looks great though. Would be nice to be finished at noon.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Zoidberg]

hmmmm..I heard the party store down the road sells beer already brewed, aged and bottled. That would save time.

 

[broadbill]

Interesting......i guess i can chill my barley liquid with my wort chiller down to 50 F. Should only take 10 minutes or so. Then just leave it to freeze overnight. It's between 14 and -4 F at night here.

I can't go to extract. It's not for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

In this case you are saving the 1h 20 min that it takes to get to boiling/finish boil; at the same time using all of the equipment you would use to get the batch from start to finish.

Not to mention: you also need to account for the time it will take for the wort to thaw on the day you finish the batch...Instead of going from 150-170F to boiling, it will be from 32 to 212/boil. I bet that would be a good 1-2 hours to boil (because you are starting from freezing), then the 60 minute boil on top of that...with chilling, MORE cleaning, etc...you'll could have another 4 hours on the second brew day!

You will draw this out to around 8 hours to save 1h 20 minutes, for the convenience of breaking it up over 2 sessions.

I'm sorry extract isn't for you, but it doesn't sound like AG is either....unfortunately there is significant time baked into the process, and there is no way around it.

What about BIAB, get rid of the sparge step?

 

[Braufessor]

To be honest, I don't see how drawing your brewing out over 2 days (or longer) is shortening anything up at all. And, at the very, very best - it might only cause minor problems with your beer, as opposed to major problems with your beer.

If you want to split things up over two days - split up preparation on one day, and brewing on the next. That is what really speeds up a brew day. If you have everything laid out, water in the pot, grain milled, everything organized - there is no reason brewing should take you 5 hours. I routinely brew 2 batches of all grain beer in 5 hours if I am organized - mashing a second batch during the second half of the first boil.

If I start with everything clean and organized and ready to roll - I can put the flame on my strike water while I make coffee, eat some breakfast, whatever........ that does not even hardly count as "brew time."
Mash = 1 hour
Start vorlauf/recirculate the last 5 minutes of the mash
Sparge = 15 minutes or so
Put flame on boil kettle as soon as there is a half gallon of wort in there.
Bring 8 gallons to boil = 15 minutes or so
Boil 60-90 minutes depending on malt
Chill (while manually whirlpooling with chiller/stirring with chiller) = 15-20 minutes.
Drain into fermenter and pitch yeast = 10 minutes
Clean boil kettle and chiller/put away odds and ends = 15 minutes

About 3.5 hours or so.....

The key is to have everything ready to go, so that all you do is light your burner the second you wake up or get home - change clothes/eat while the water is heating. Then, make sure you are cleaning stuff and putting it away during the mash, the boil and the chill as you finish each segment.

I would never stretch the brew process out. Prepare the day before, clean up the day after if you have to ...... but really no reason to clean up the next day either when you can do it during the process.

 

[Beer-lord]

I've heard people have done it that way with no real problems. Just be sure to refrigerate or keep the wort cold till you brew so bacteria doesn't set in and make nasty chemicals in your wort!

To shorten my All-Grain brew days here are my tricks:
1. Make yeast starter several days before, store in fridge till brew day
2. Mill all grain a day or two early and have it in a bucket, ready to go.
3. Have all hops, brewing salts, fining agents, etc. weighed out and labeled in zip-lock bags, ready for adding to kettle.
4. Set up a table next to your brew station and lay out all items necessary before you begin so you won't be running around looking for something in the middle of brewing.
5. Make sure you have a second propane tank full!
6. If it's not too cold, a garden hose with sprayer is 100X faster to clean up your equipment than doing it inside in a small sink!
7. Plan your brew day to also do other projects or chores during the mash and boil and set timers on your phone so you won't miss a step!

My All Grain brew days take about 4 hours from heating the strike water to pitching yeast.

I pretty much mirror these steps and take about 4.5 hours during brew day. While the mash is going, I'll get my fermentation vessel clean and sanitized and make some notes. I usually have time to eat breakfast, or do some house chores during the mash. Once the boil gets going, I try not to be to preoccupied so I don't miss hop additions or boil overs.

Even after many years of brewing, I actually enjoy these hours of brewing. But my number one rule is don't brew on a day when I have to rush as its not fun, stressful and not always successful. So, I try to plan ahead and it usually works out.

 

[broadbill]

I can only start after work. I spend weekends doing things with my wife. Your schedule looks great though. Would be nice to be finished at noon.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

This is what I do also, and I'm in bed by 11:30-midnight. How long does it take you exactly?

 

[Setesh]

Here is what I have found works to make my brew day short but sweet:

Planning:
Have a plan, and follow the plan. You can start with the brew day template and checklist template from Brewer's Friend:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewday-allgrain/
http://www.brewersfriend.com/checklist-allgrain/

After using these the first time you will be able to cross out things you don't do/need and scribble in things you do. Then just type up version two in a word processor. The next time you brew you will refine it a bit more, etc. In no time you will have a brew plan and a checklist that will have you organized, and organization always improves efficiency. I found it shaved a ton of time off my brew days. I regularly do 90 minute mashes and 90 minute boils, so my brew day is around 5 hours start to finish now, it used to be 6-7.

Preparation:
Make sure you have all of the ingredients and equipment you need to brew the recipe you have selected. Make sure you have critical things like:

yeast starter
water
starsan
propane

If you wanted to you could do things like crush your grain or weigh out hops in advance, but I find I have more than enough time to do these things during down times, and the extra time spend re-bagging hops is just wasted in the long run. YMMV on this.

Time Management:
The key is to use downtime wisely. While you are waiting for water to heat, the mash, the boil, etc., take care of the next things on the checklist/brew day schedule. Get a kitchen timer or two and use them. Every time you have downtime you do the next things on your list and verify everything is prepared. You should also clean as you go. When the boil is done the only things I have left to clean are the brew pot, immersion chiller, and wort pump/hoses. Everything else is already done, and almost everything is put back up where it belongs.

Equipment:
Equipment can certainly help speed up your brew day. Here are some of the things that have made a big impact for me:
Whirlpool chiller - speeds up cooling dramatically, which saves time
Pumps - Being able to recirculate the mash the entire time means I have completely clear wort when I start running off. No vorlauf time = time savings. Pumps also make the brewery safer since you don't have to carry hot liquids around.
Automation - Not having to check on things constantly frees up more time than you might think. My Kal clone control panel and EHERMS were huge time savers. Now I just listen for the buzzer to tell me time is up.

It really comes down to fine tuning a plan that works for you. Once you have that you will breeze through brew days and enjoy it a LOT more. You will have a lot more fun when you aren't cussing at yourself for forgetting things and leaving things out. Give it a try, I doubt you will be disappointed.

 

[Homercidal]

I've done this, and it's been fine, but the time saved the first day is almost taken up during the heating on the boil day. I think the best thing to do is to realize that a brewday takes 4-6 hours depending on the conditions, and then prepare the day before with pre-measured and pre-treated water, measured and crushed grains, and an organized process.

 

[RM-MN]

My brew today started with my equipment and grains up to the kitchen and my recipe printed out. That may have taken me 10 minutes to prep. At 8:30 I started heating the water and milling my grains, by hand in a Corona mill. This is a 2 1/2 gallon batch so I saved a few minutes heating the water and milling the grains but I do them both at the same time so I maybe saved 10 minutes.

My grains are milled really fine since I do Brew in a Bag and can deal with grain that is like coarse cornmeal. I had my water at strike temp and all the grains milled by 9:00. With grains milled that fine, it doesn't take long to get conversion so I pulled the bag of grains out of the pot and turned the heat back on at 9:10 (yes, I only mashed for 10 minutes) At 9:30 my wort was at boil and I added my bittering hops. I expect to be done with the boil at 10:30 and will put the pot into a tub of water outside and add a bunch of snow to keep the water as cold as I can for chilling the wort. I expect that to take about 20 minutes. I should have the yeast pitched and all the equipment cleaned and put away by 11:00.