Brew days too long!

[TimelessCynic]

All this talk about process makes me want to do a speed trial when I get home tonight. Maybe I will single batch sparge this time so I can heat the brew pot that contain my first runnings as soon as i fill the mash tun with my sparge water. Perhaps i will run my burner with the flames licking half way up the sides of the pot and I'll run my garden hose full blast this time to get my chill time from 25 to 15 minutes. Maybe even 10 minutes!!!!! I could save 5 minutes!!!!


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[soccerdad]

What about a 'modified' No Chill? Crush, Mash and Boil only on day 1. Come back a day later to pitch and transfer to FV.

The serious no chill brewers transfer hot wort to an air tight vessel and pitch days, weeks or even months later.

In reality, letting the wort cool overnight might only save an hour, because you still have to do all that crap that you do while the chilling is going on ... cleaning, rinsing, putting stuff away, beating the kids

 

[Yooper]

I want to split my brew day in half even if that means adding some time to each half if it can be accomplished by combing two days work. I think i got it with my frozen barley liquid idea (can I call it wort if it hasn't boiled?) some posts were helpful most were not. Still, i appreciate all the input.


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Even if you freeze your wort, it may still sour during the chilling/cooling if it's unhopped as it will take a LONG time for 7 gallons of 152 degree wort to chill enough to freeze, even at 0 degrees. At a warmer temperature, it will take even longer.

Maybe try something like an overnight mash, mashing in at 8 pm, and then sparging and boiling the next morning? That spreads out the work, but may minimize any chances of souring the wort.

 

[Setesh]

Even if you freeze your wort, it may still sour during the chilling/cooling if it's unhopped as it will take a LONG time for 7 gallons of 152 degree wort to chill enough to freeze, even at 0 degrees. At a warmer temperature, it will take even longer.

Maybe try something like an overnight mash, mashing in at 8 pm, and then sparging and boiling the next morning? That spreads out the work, but may minimize any chances of souring the wort.

I looked into doing this whenever I was working 7 days a week. You can find lots of people that have great success with it. The key is to maintain the temperature. Most people would use several sleeping bags and piles of blankets (literally piles) to keep the temperature up in the mash tun. Cover the floor with foam or blankets to prevent conduction to the ground. wrap your mash tun in sleeping bags or blankets and then pile the blankets all around and on top of the tun to provide as much insulation as possible. In the morning these people still had temps over 130, which prevented souring. Then they would continue as normal.

 

[dyqik]

Another possible time saving is to cut down on the strike water heating time, by building a temperature controlled electric HLT, and setting it on a timer (doesn't need more than 1500W - 15A at 110V - for a 5 gallon batch if you can leave it to warm up long enough). Also, do conversion tests on your mash, so you can mash for the minimum time needed. There are reports of 30-40 minutes being long enough for the right grain bill.

Or just make Berliner Weisse - that only needs a 15 minute boil...

 

[Ilan34]

I do an overnight mash (of sorts) in order to make things easier with the wife and daughter on weekends.

I do BIAB 2.5 gallon batches. Essentially, I do the mash at night, pull and squeeze the bag, throw out the grains and then heat up the wort to 190 while cleaning up. Then I'll throw it in a preheated oven (175 degrees) that's gets turned off when I put the kettle in, and let it sit overnight. Usually done by 12:30 if I started at 9.

Wake up the next morning and pull it out of the oven at 7 am, and it's generally sitting at 155 or so (no chance of souring). Start heating for the boil and I'm completely done by 10:30.

This process probably isn't feasible with the batch sizes you brew, but maybe it will inspire someone out there. All told, it winds up taking about an hour longer than if I did it in one day, but it feels so much shorter and more relaxed.

SWMBO loves it. That's pretty much all that matters.

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[kombat]

I spend weekends doing things with my wife.

Surely this is an exaggeration, no? You spend ALL weekend, EVERY weekend, entirely with your wife? Why could you not take one Saturday morning a month and do something YOU enjoy? Doesn't she have girl friends she can go have brunch with or go shopping with or something?

My wife is an avid reader. She doesn't mind my brewing at all. For one thing, she'll sleep in on the weekend, so by the time she gets up, I'm already partway through the boil. Then she'll make a cup of tea and read books on her Kobo with one of our cats on her lap until I'm done and come in to ask her what she'd like for lunch.

 

[jimyson]

I see BIAB, Partial Mash, and Automation being your options to shorten your involvement in brewing. Choose one or stay with a longer brew day.

 

[Yooper]

All this talk about process makes me want to do a speed trial when I get home tonight. Maybe I will single batch sparge this time so I can heat the brew pot that contain my first runnings as soon as i fill the mash tun with my sparge water. Perhaps i will run my burner with the flames licking half way up the sides of the pot and I'll run my garden hose full blast this time to get my chill time from 25 to 15 minutes. Maybe even 10 minutes!!!!! I could save 5 minutes!!!!


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I know you're being sarcastic- but you're the one who wanted the advice on if you should do what you propose. 100% of the respondents said that it wouldn't be a good practice, due to the likelihood of lactobacillus growth and souring of the wort.

but a single batch sparge IS a great way to brew. I used to do it all the time, and still generally prefer it.

I mash in, mash for 45-60 minutes, drain the MLT, add the one round of batch sparge water, stir like I mean it, vorlauf and drain. Sparging takes 5 minutes.

A general brewday takes most people 4-5 hours. If that takes too much concentration, and drinking during it makes it slower, than perhaps AG brewing isn't for you. (I don't drink when I brew until chilling, and that does help with not having accidents or mistakes).

A single round of batch sparging, and a 45 minute mash may mean having your brewday done (including clean up) in 4 hours.

That sure beats trying to freeze lacto-laden wort and then thawing it and boiling it hoping it's not too sour.

 

[JonM]

Here's a radical idea - do two batches at once (requires a second burner). As soon as the mash is drained into the bk and the sparge is done, start heating strike water for batch 2. Mash during the boil and chill, and as soon as batch 1 is chilled and in the fermenter, start the runnings for batch 2.

I've done this and it's about 7-8 hours while one batch takes 5-6 hours. Sure, you're working longer, but your hours-per-batch is reduced AND you can free up that next brewing weekend.

 

[insanim8er]

I find my brew days are too long. Any problem with mashing one day, storing wort for several days then boiling and pitching on another day?


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I've been reading up on sour mash techniques. I'm planning on doing one here soon. I'm hoping to get a PH meter for my Bday. So ya, as stated, that's not a good idea.

I found my brew days to be long too, but now I have done a major upgrade on my equipment that has helped a lot.

Blichmann pots with the sight gauges, Burners with high BTU, Thermapen (so I'm not messing with thermometers during the brew), Pumps, SS quick disconnects, Plate chiller with thermometer and oxygenation system built in... etc. It's helped me speed things up a lot. But I know it's not always an option.

I also speed things up by doing a batch sparge vs fly (but I prefer fly personally) also having everything ready the day before. Cleaning the fermenters, getting the ingredients separated and ready to go.. etc.

 

[fartinmartin]

This might help, halve the brew day !
Just double the output !
Brew twice as much volume or two brews on the same day, effectively halving the time spent.
That's a 100% reduction of the brew day !

 

[TimelessCynic]

I was being sarcastic about the 5 minutes. I was serious about the time trial. I also tend to run less water and gas cause I'm cheap. I'll try to up them cause i actually can afford it. I think i maybe okay with a single batch sparge and that should save me probably 30 minutes. Plus my efficiency shouldn't drop that much because I've purchased a proper grain mill. And if it does, who cares? I buy grain in bulk anyhow, I could just use more. I actually brought a keg of beer i made from wort that stayed outside unfrozen for a day and a half before boil to a Super Bowl party. It tasted good. I'm going to time trial then in future brews and if i don't have time just leave it in the brew pot until the following day and risk the souring effect. Ill post my time trial breakdown later.


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[insanim8er]

This might help, halve the brew day !
Just double the output !
Brew twice as much volume or two brews on the same day, effectively halving the time spent.
That's a 100% reduction of the brew day !

+1 Im even considering 15 gallon batches for some proven recipes. But again, not always an option for some.

 

[suckmyale]

I find my brew days are too long. Any problem with mashing one day, storing wort for several days then boiling and pitching on another day?


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A couple times I mashed one day then boiled/pitched the next without any issues. I kept it at room temp. I probably wont do this anymore, since I stepped up to 10G batches.

There was one time I tried to go with another day in between, and on the second day the wort already started fermenting on its own......so it got immediately dumped.

 

[roastquake]

BIAB, no-chill. I don't ever prepare the day before. I fill the brew pot and start heating water, while that's happening I weigh and crush grains (30 min). BIAB strike temps are lower than traditional mashing, so this can take even less time. Mash and squeeze the bag (60 min), no shortening that, and sometimes I mash as long as 90 minutes. Then the boil, in no-chill brewing hop boiling times are shortened by 20 minutes, essentially making your flame out hops 20 min additions and bittering takes only 40 minutes of boiling. So I usually just add my flavor/aroma hops to the storage vessel either at flame out or within 20 minutes after the boil. Let it cool overnight (you can calm yourself down by drinking, so as not to worry about contamination) and pitch the next day when it gets down to temperature. I never let it go longer than 24 hours. All that being said, my shortest brew days are 2.5 hours long, that's if I clean during the mash and boil.

 

[dobe12]

BIAB strike temps are lower than traditional mashing, so this can take even less time.

I brew in a bag so I'm going to need an explanation on this. I use standard mash temp calculators with no issues. I don't see how BIAB would be any different.

 

[Hopper5000]

Prep everything the night before, milling, salts, etc. Wake up the morning of brew day and start the strike water going. When it's to temp dough in and mash all day. Come home from work and then sparge, boil, chill, and pitch. That should save you some time and stretch things out in a resonable manner. If you have a good mashtun that can keep temps well then it shouldn't be too much of an issue to do this.

 

[roastquake]

I brew in a bag so I'm going to need an explanation on this. I use standard mash temp calculators with no issues. I don't see how BIAB would be any different.

the grain to water ratio makes the difference. Do you make mostly big beers? I'm a habitual session brewer. not much going over 1.050 for me. The more grain added to the water, the bigger the drop in temperature. At least that's what I've seen. Now, I'm also continually heating my tun/kettle for the entire mash

Edit: Also, do you sparge? My version of BIAB is no-sparge as well, so that also lowers the grain to water ratio.

 

[hio3791]

I think most people have similar time saving strategies. It comes down to planning ahead and multi-tasking and after doing it for a while, it becomes the normal. I brew 11 gal batches, in approx 5 hrs.

Everyone is giving you good advice. This is a time consuming hobby and perhaps it is not meant for you. No disrespect intended.

 

[dobe12]

the grain to water ratio makes the difference. Do you make mostly big beers? I'm a habitual session brewer. not much going over 1.050 for me. The more grain added to the water, the bigger the drop in temperature. At least that's what I've seen. Now, I'm also continually heating my tun/kettle for the entire mash

I make all different beers. Anything between 4.5% up to 11+%. And yes more or less grain, more or less water is all part of the equation, but it has nothing to do with BIAB. X amount of grain added to X amount of water at X temperature is going to settle at the same temperature whether BIAB, mashing in a cooler, whatever.

I use reflective insulation to wrap my mash pot. Keeps temps pretty constant over an hour, even with below freezing temps outside. But again, this had nothing to do with strike temp for BIAB compared to a normal mash.

 

[stpug]

I do not understand how splitting a brewday into two days is a time saver. The only way it "saves" time is that each day is shorter, but by the time you add the time spent brewing your beer together you actually spent additional time for the same brew. All of the same processes still have to happen, and in the case of an overnight mash, you actually increase the amount of time it takes to get from sparged to boiling (if not by a fair amount then by a small amount).

Same goes for "day before" prepping. You're still spending the time - you're just splitting it up. In fact, I think there is more time savings in slamming all of the processes into the same day since you can be accomplishing several tasks as one task is proceeding. Better yet, double brews can save you a significant amount of time since you are starting your second batch while the first is mashing. I've done one double brewday and the time from beginning to end was ~7.5 hours whereas a single brewday is about 5 hours normally - a total savings of 2.5 hours in brewing two batches. Unfortunately, my back did NOT like that day - nor did my mind . Paying attention to so many steps, temperatures, timers, preppings, cleanings was not fun; however, it WAS a great time savings on two different batches of beer.

 

[dobe12]

Edit: Also, do you sparge? My version of BIAB is no-sparge as well, so that also lowers the grain to water ratio.

This must be it. Yes I do sparge. I assume the original post was talking about full volume mashing? I tried that a few times, but lost efficiency. I can routinely hit 75-80% and sometimes higher with lower OG beers. Switching to full volume mashing dropped my efficiency down to 65-70%. Too much of a drop for my liking.

 

[roastquake]

Full volume, should have specified that. Yea the only way I've been able to get above 70% eff is to do a good long mash-out, another thing that should be mentioned there. If you don't mash out then you may only get about 65% eff.

 

[wilserbrewer]

BIAB strike temps are a bit lower, BUT you are typically heating more water for a full volume mash, I can't see it really being any faster to strike temps, IME perhaps even longer.

I would suggest an overnight mash in a cooler starting just before retiring for the night, and sparging and boiling the following day. While lacto supposedly kicks in quick, I think you could stay ahead of any problems with only an 8 hour mash in a decent cooler.

Another option is to mash, collect runnings and heat to say 190 - 200 degrees to pasteurize the wort, then lid the kettle and come back to it the following day. Trying to chill the wort and reheat it seems like a waste of effort. Letting the wort freeze seems crazy to me, I can't imagine how long it would take to thaw a kettle full of frozen wort and bringing it to boil...that's a lot of energy!

I have also had pretty good luck doing "no chill" right in the kettle, after flame out and waiting for the wort to cool to hop stand temps, I lid the kettle and come back to it the following morning and pitch yeast.

The biggest time and work saver that I have found is setting up my brewery in the basement! Having everything in one dedicated area and not having to haul pots, fermenters, propane tanks, and ingredients outside and then back down the basement to ferment is heaven! If at all possible, try and come up with a way to brew indoors at dedicated spot.

 

[Skarekrough]

All of the same processes still have to happen, and in the case of an overnight mash, you actually increase the amount of time it takes to get from sparged to boiling (if not by a fair amount then by a small amount).

In the entire process the most hands-off portion is typically mashing.

By doing it overnight and then mashing out first thing in the morning you're killing the 90 minutes you'd spend staring at it while conversion happens and then as the tun is draining you can do things on the side like measure out hops, eat a bowl of cereal, etc. You get the tun drained, wort up to speed on the boil and then it's 90 minutes of checking on it now and again and adding hops at the right intervals.

After I did an overnight mash the first time I was amazed that more folks weren't doing it.

 

[roastquake]

BIAB strike temps are a bit lower, BUT you are typically heating enough water for a full volume mash, I can't see it really being any faster to strike temps, IME perhaps even longer.

True indeed, I keep forgetting that not everyone brews like me. I've been keeping batches small for months now. Heating 2 gallons to strike temp doesn't take long at all, but 7 gallons certainly does

 

[stpug]

In the entire process the most hands-off portion is typically mashing.

By doing it overnight and then mashing out first thing in the morning you're killing the 90 minutes you'd spend staring at it while conversion happens and then as the tun is draining you can do things on the side like measure out hops, eat a bowl of cereal, etc. You get the tun drained, wort up to speed on the boil and then it's 90 minutes of checking on it now and again and adding hops at the right intervals.

After I did an overnight mash the first time I was amazed that more folks weren't doing it.

I recognize that "process" is the single-most important facter when comparing time usage during brewing, so this is all very subjective stuff.

I actually do a fair amount during the mash, which for me is typically 60 minutes (although sometimes it's 90 and others it's 45). Probably the most important task I do during the mash is heating the sparge water, but I have ample time to measure out my salts, hops, and clean my workspace. If I mashed in and went to bed, I wouldn't be able to sparge the next day until I had heated my water and added my water additions. So, for me with my process, it's not a great time saver.

From my perspective, I would have used up an portion of my evening and now need to finish brewing the beer the next morning. It some way (for me) it's like working up until going to bed only to wake up and continue working right away. Since it spans two days, it would just feel longer to me. I can generally fit a brewday in between noon and 5PM with my process. So I can work a half-day, brew, and still have my evening available.

Again, I know this is all very subjective and highly varied due to personal process, but this is how I see overnight brewing.

 

[TimelessCynic]

Time trials completed. 4 hrs 25 minutes.

17:00
start filtering water and heating at the same time.
17:35
transfer strike water into mash tun. start filtering sparge water and heating it.
18:42
begin draining mash tun into brew pot
18:48
pour sparge water into mash tun. place brew pot on flame
18:58
drain mash tun into brew pot
19:22 full boil reached
20:23 finished boil turn on wort chiller. frozen hose. swap hose
20:31 turn on wort chiller
20:42 turn off wort chiller, pour wort into fermentor
20:50 move fermentor down stairs and aerate with wine degasser
20:55 attach airlock, place fermenter in cold room
21:00 start cleaning
21:25 finish cleaning, leaving brew pot and wort chiller for later

i think i can knock off 25 minutes if it were summer time and not winter outside.

 

[Cajun_McChicken]

I used to mash one night then brew the next morning all the time. I probably wouldn't wait more than over night though.