Brew Boss users what your methods for brewing high OG beers?

[jturman35]

Hey everyone I was trying to get some insight on brewing large gravity beers using the 15gal Brew Boss system with COFI filter. I typically brew 5.5 gal batches. I am learning one of the challenges with BIAB is high gravity beers over 1.080 and up. I recently did a Scotch Ale 1.079 and ended up a 1.063. Beer should have been 7.3% ended up 5.5%.

One of the main reasons for me purchasing the B.B. system was consistency. I plan to perfect a few beers to my liking, so consistency is key. I am considering splitting up my mash in half and combine into one boil? Or, add more water volume during the mash and boil longer. Or, hold back a gal or two and perform a sparge over the COFI to rinse the grain?

What are other B.B. users doing for larger 8-10% beers?

 

[jalc6927]

Is the grain milled super fine!

 

[jturman35]

Website/Instructions say super fine grain doesn’t help as much with the COFI.

 

[beermanpete]

Why not use some extract to the boil kettle to augment the gravity?
What is the maximum amount of malt you can fit in the mash?

 

[jturman35]

I was hoping to improve my process to the point I don’t need DME.

I believe 24lbs, but maybe a tad more for the 15gal kettle. I typically shoot for 5.5 gals into the fermenter.

 

[beermanpete]

24 pounds of malt is enough to get to 0.112 (assuming 80% efficiency). If you use 12 gallons of water to mash the 24 pounds of malt you will end up with a bit over 7 gallons of wort at 1.093. Boiling down to 6 gallons will raise the gravity to 1.112. Unless your mash pH or temperature is out of range you should be able to get 80% conversion efficiency with ease.

 

[jalc6927]

I added about 10% more to my grain bill in ratio and hit my numbers regularly, but I use a bag

On my next batch I’ll grind fiber and use the cut back grain bill

 

[jturman35]

Why not use some extract to the boil kettle to augment the gravity?
What is the maximum amount of malt you can fit in the mash?

If you miss your OG and add extract to hit the desired gravity would the beer still not be different than what the recipe called for? For example let’s say someone brewed a 1.080 beer and came up with 1.065 at the end of the boil. They then calculated the shortage and added enough DME to bring the gravity up to 1.080. However the grains did not fully convert, wouldn’t this result in a sweeter beer?

I’m asking because I have failed several times trying to brew a Scotch Ale on two different systems. The last Scotch Ale I did I ended up with a 5.5% instead of 7.5%. The beer is extremely sweet. Very disappointing l, however the antidepressant me have helped and I’m just now able to go back out in public.

How would a 90min boil help? In BS when I change to a 90 min boil it obviously adds more water to the mash. I’m not sure I understand how this works if I need more water up front to account for the extra boil off. Can someone dumb this down for me?

 

[beermanpete]

Adding DME will change the malt balance but should move toward a drier finish. Unconverted starch is not sweet. Sweetness is likely due a high mash temp or too much crystal malt. In this case boiling longer is a remedy used to correct a problem mid-brew so no extra water is required and brewing software won't help.

Start with the basics:
What is your recipe?
What is your mash pH?
What is your mash temp?
How are you milling the grain?

 

[Punx Clever]

How would a 90min boil help? In BS when I change to a 90 min boil it obviously adds more water to the mash. I’m not sure I understand how this works if I need more water up front to account for the extra boil off. Can someone dumb this down for me?

More water holds more sugar. Longer boil removes more water.

Lets say you get another half gallon (call it 6.5 gallons) of wort at a pre-boil gravity of 1.048 compared to 6 gallons at a pre-boil of 1.050...

The former would have 312 "points" and the latter would have 300 points. Boiled down to 5 gallons, the former would be at 1.062 OG, the latter would be at 1.060 OG.

Brewing BIG beers the difference between the two would grow.

 

[MerlinWerks]

How would a 90min boil help? In BS when I change to a 90 min boil it obviously adds more water to the mash. I’m not sure I understand how this works if I need more water up front to account for the extra boil off. Can someone dumb this down for me?

I don't have the COFI and use a open top mesh basket so it's easier for me, but you really need to find a way to sparge with the COFI. The pics on the BB site show that they have a bail handle on them, so maybe you can raise and suspend the basket using the bail handle, remove the top, sparge with a pitcher, and either replace the top and squeeze as normal or just use a big pot lid and press down on the grain?

As far as the process for a longer boil goes, I would recommend a 120 min boil. Treat and heat the amount of strike water BS recommends, but before doughing-in remove ~1.5 - 2 gal., if the mash seems too thick and you are having trouble recirculating add a bit of the reserved strike water back in, but try to sparge with at least a gallon. Once the mash is over sparge with the reserved strike water, the temp does not matter, this will get you much closer to your goal.

 

[jturman35]

More water holds more sugar. Longer boil removes more water.

Ok, this makes sense. I was looking at it in terms of watering down the mash. I guess I can boil until I reach the desired OG or boil volume or compromise between the two.

I bought a mill so in the future I will be milling my own grains. Hopefully this will help me hit my numbers. I have only done two brews on my system. The last beer I added the grains while the COFI was in the pot, stirred, then added the lid and started the pump.

On big beers I was also thinking of doing a sparge by removing a gallon of the strike water and reserve. The only issue is B.B. claims sparging does not work as well with a recirculating system. He claims the grains have been rinsed continuously and sparging doesn’t work as well as typical BIAB. Anyway I plan to remove a gal or two and perform 90min boil with a 1 - 2 sparge and see what happens.

 

[MerlinWerks]

As I mentioned I have an open top mesh basket, but I made a central recirculating tube very similar to the COFI system and I have found a sparge as I described a couple posts up to be beneficial when trying to get north of 1.070..

Having said that, you may get good results just mashing the full volume as calculated for the longer boil since that supplies the extra water needed to extract all the sugars from the larger grain bill

 

[jturman35]

Well I brewed a 1.087 Scotch Ale today and came in a 1.081 using LHBS grain crush. Definitely happy with the results! Because this was a small 2.5 gal batch I was only able to sparge with 1/2 gallon. Hit my volumes as usual.

I revised my process by pouring the grain into the COFI filter while submersed in water and stirred the grain before beginning the mash. I also paused at the 30 min mark removed the recirculating hose and stirred again. This and the 1/2 gal sparge really helped.

View attachment 560805

 

[MerlinWerks]

Great to hear that you are moving in the right direction.

How long of a boil did you use?

 

[jturman35]

I did a 2 hour boil because I needed 6 gallons of water to cover the 9lb grain bed. This left me with half a gallon sparge. I had exactly 2.5 into the fermenter and also filled up my hydrometer vial. The water dropped below the temp probe which is not a big deal for boiling. I adjusted the power down to 50% to account for small volume. It’s good to know I can do small batches with the 15gallon system.

Anyone know why I can’t post pictures? This forum is hit and miss with posting pictures. Is there a limit?

 

[jalc6927]

I discovered one thing I was not doing that hurt my OG, and that was skipping the 15 minute mash out,

I added this in on Saturday and was shooting for 1.053, and got 1.051, and a volume of 6 gallons

I try to brew 5.5, so at this level I’d been right on it

 

[jturman35]

I did do a 168 mash out. Not sure how much this helped though.

 

[jturman35]

Ok, update: so I have found that stirring has definitely helped my efficiency. I now add the COFI into the mash tun and then add grain, I then stir for a min or two. Put lid on and turn on recirculating pump. At the 30 min mark I stop and stir again. I just did a 1.069 NEIPA with no problems and hit my volumes perfectly.

Friday I am brewing a 1.093 Belgium Strong Ale (Chimay) I recently purchased a mill and am going to open up the gap to around .39 and see what happens. I will also reserve at least a 1/2 gal for sparge and recipe calls for 90min boil.

 

[doug293cz]

Have you considered doing a double mash for your high gravity brews? A double mash is just mashing once with 1/2 of your grain bill, and then using the wort from the first mash, instead of water, for the second mash using the other 1/2 of your grain. Yeah, it significantly extends your brew day, but the overall result is a higher mash efficiency than if you had done a single mash with all of your grain, and it requires less volume in your mash vessel.

I did my first double mash (BIAB) last week, and got an OG of 1.107 for 4.5 gal in fermenter from 19.2 lb of grain (overall mash efficiency of 74-75%, 6.1 gal pre-boil @ 1.083 SG.) Had I done a single mash my OG would have been about 1.102 (1.078 pre-boil), and mash efficiency would have been about 70-71%.

If you want to sparge the second mash, just hold back some of the first mash wort to sparge with. You calculate your total starting brewing water (strike + sparge volume) just as if you were going to do a single mash process.

Brew on

 

[jturman35]

I actually have considered, but the hassle of cleaning the COFI twice seems like more work. Seems more logical to just split in half and perform two mashes and combine in the boil.

I have my own mill set to width of a credit card so im thinking of just doing a 120 min boil. With the 15gal system I need enough water to cover the 17lbs of grain in the mash tun so I will have to perform a 120 min boil.

 

[doug293cz]

It's definitely more cleaning to do a double mash vs. single mash. However, doesn't your plan for doing two separate mashes and combining the wort also require two cleanings of the COFI? And, a longer boil to get rid of the extra water used?

I'd like to run some simulations. So, what is your typical boil off rate (gal/hr), and what is your max tolerable mash thickness (min qt/lb strike water)?

Brew on

 

[jturman35]

I just brewed a Belgium dark Strong Ale 1.093. For me to get 5.5 into fermenter I mashed with 9 gallons and sparged with 1 gallon. I did a 2 hour boil. My boil off rate is 1.36 per hour. I’m not exactly sure where my OG landed. Last night when I checked with my refractometer is said 1.091. I woke this am and checked the sample I left sitting out and it said 1.100. I’m going to recalibrate using distilled and double check. This is going to be a beer I age for a year or more so I want everything to be perfect.

Using my new mill grain crush was set using a credit card thickness.

 

[beermanpete]

How much malt did you use?

 

[jturman35]

17lb grain bill plus 1.5lb candi syrup

 

[beermanpete]

Did you have any room left for a larger mash?

 

[jturman35]

 

[jturman35]

Doing a 1.118 OG Bourbon County Stout Clone this weekend!

 

[jturman35]

Update: for my Bourbon Stout I did a double mash with 26lbs of grain which should have been a 1.118 beer but ended up at 1.110. I learned the hard way not to crush the grain into flour on the second mash. I noticed my grain was not crushing all of the way on my second batch so I adjusted the gap too tight! Also scour has the element pretty good because of the fine crush. I’m thinking .030-.035 is the sweet spot on this system.