Breakfast Stout with US-05 Stalled

[Davedrinksbeer]

Ok, still learning the trade. Thanks for the answers.
Just one more, would aerating the wort with pure oxygen have helped with the FG at all? (Probably not if the sugar isn't fermentable)

i bought a wine degasser wand for $20 that’s hooks into a power drill. Works great

 

[VikeMan]

i bought a wine degasser wand for $20 that’s hooks into a power drill. Works great

Perhaps you already know this, but there's a limitation with oxygenating with a wine degasser. It's the same as with shaking, about 8 ppm O2 (or maybe a little higher). The reason is that once you reach equilibrium, any more O2 you gain by further agitation is offset by O2 lost due to the same agitation.

 

[Davedrinksbeer]

Perhaps you already know this, but there's a limitation with oxygenating with a wine degasser. It's the same as with shaking, about 8 ppm O2 (or maybe a little higher). The reason is that once you reach equilibrium, any more O2 you gain by further agitation is offset by O2 lost due to the same agitation.

agree, a wine degasser wand though works better than shaking the $hit out of a bucket or carboy.

 

[superiorsat]

Years ago my neighbor decided he wanted to get set up for 4 kegs in his fridge so I helped him and he contributes to ingredients and keg cleaning days and such. I have had years of split batch side by side comparisons to check this line of thinking. The strong beers being the best example for this case I would do side by side everything identical with 1 exception one way or another. Like adding pure oxygen to one and not the other when using dry yeast even though you don't need to and some suggest you might even be doing harm by doing this . The only thing that I ever got out of that was The O2 added one was a quicker take off but in the end same FG and flavor. Brewing big beers when I first started seemed like I was waiting for ever to get those last few points so you look to the forums and get stuff like try to gently rouse the yeast and maybe raise the temp a little which are both good pieces of advice but too slow for my liking. I was under the impression early on in this hobby that all simple sugar additions should try to be held off until fermentation was basically done so the yeast didn't go after the easy sugars and give up on the more complex sugars. I've done enough kettle additions, brown sugar, honey, treacle, etc.. and I didn't see any stuck/stalled fermentations so I kind of threw that out the window. I see late feeding as a way not just to rouse some tired not energized yeast to try to eat the last more complex sugars but to get the health guys eating and hungry and when that little sugar rush runs out they take what ever they can get because they are energized and have some gas left in the tank and aren't ready to go back dormant just yet. Kind of like my dog will lay in the garage with a bowl full of food and not touch it but once I give him something off my plate he will then tear into his food as I got his hunger going. Obviously not apples to apples but it is a nature thing. Anyway I would hit my stout with a pound of honey ( did this on 3 occasions )and not his. The first time I didn't check for final gravity until we kegged it. Mine was good at 1.022 his was too sweet at 1.026. Warmed his back up added a pack of yeast and it took a week/week and a 1/2 to where his got to 1.024 and bottomed out but like I said earlier a couple points can make a difference taste wise. Did this same thing a couple more times but checked everything before kegging and both times his beers took about a week and a half longer. The other advantage of all this split batching is you can go multiple directions different yeast, fruits , dry hops etc.. I know it isn't an exact scientific experiment but it has convinced me enough that I'm now in the habit of doing it.

Just be aware that adding (say) a pound of table sugar to a 5 gallon batch will result in an FG a little more than 2 points lower, just from the fermentation of the added sugar (i.e. not the residual sugars), because of ethanol being less dense than water.

I get that but even though I may or may not be getting anymore of the complex sugars ( usually get about a 5-6 point drop from where fermentation starts inching along with the honey addition ) being diluted a little more with ethanol is diluted more none the less reducing sweetness a smidge . Less sugar per drink lets say. Keep in mind I think the points I am talking about would come off with time I just don't want to wait and I plan for this so I'm not overshooting the expected ABV. These are just my experiences and just throw it out there for others to do what they will.

 

[VikeMan]

I get that but even though I may or may not be getting anymore of the complex sugars ( usually get about a 5-6 point drop from where fermentation starts inching along with the honey addition ) being diluted a little more with ethanol is diluted more none the less reducing sweetness a smidge . Less sugar per drink lets say.

It's not really much less sugar per drink, assuming we're just talking about the impact of the fermentation of the added sugar. The added ethanol from that pound of sugar will result in roughly 1/2 pound of alcohol, or less than 10 fluid ounces. That would be less than a 2% change in the concentration of sugars/dextrins. If you can taste a difference in sweetness for less than a 2% concentration reduction in complex sugars/dextrins, I'm impressed!

 

[superiorsat]

I'm pretty sensitive to sugar like that. Lets say a stout at 1.026 is too sweet for me, but maybe something just a point or two different like 1.025 or 1.024 I can get on board with. All depends on the beer. I've done plenty of dumb stuff fighting this compulsion. Beano to try to convert more complex sugars so they can be fermented. Adding coffee or hops or oak tea to offset sweetness. etc.. I had a stretch years back when my neighbor got involved where I went from 10 gallon coolers to 20 gallon stainless mash tun and HLT ( always had 20 gallon BK ) and stupidly didn't calibrate my new thermometers. They were off to say the least so I was more than splitting the difference thinking my analog was 3/4 the way down in the MT and if the analog was at 153 lets say the temp probe from my herms recir would have to be at 159ish from my controller to have the analog that was out of whack where I thought it should be. This generated a couple months of beers that had a FG too high for me (probably mashing 158+) and on with the fixes and methods to combat this. Then the light bulb of stupidity went on and I realized what was going on. That was the stage where I learned my palate to sugar is very sensitive.

 

[dmtaylor]

Sorry I’m late.

Did you perform a refractometer conversion calculation to account for presence of alcohol in the FG sample? Looks like probably not? You NEED to.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=28544.15

 

[Brewshna]

used a hydrometer to test.

 

[Brewshna]

Here's the last reading

 

[dmtaylor]

Oh, well that's good. Nevermind.

 

[Golddiggie]

agree, a wine degasser wand though works better than shaking the $hit out of a bucket or carboy.

Still limited to 8ppm of oxygenation due to using atmospheric O2.

Some years back I brewed a wee heavy with a target of 12% ABV. Pitched a starter (did multiple steps to get to the target pitch cell count) of Wyeast 1728 and hit the wort with oxygen through an O2 wand (stone on a stainless wand) fed by pure O2. Batch actually hit 12.5% ABV. I did add nutrient into the boil since I knew I was pushing the yeast.

That's just to illustrate how you CAN push a yeast beyond it's listed tolerance IF you do what's needed to get there.

 

[Beermeister32]

I had several batches that ended up too sweet due to a mash kettle thermometer that was about 6 degrees off. I agree, sweet beers like that take the fun out of drinking.

One of the tools in your beer kit should be amylase enzyme. To help dry out problem beers, you can add a teaspoon of this directly to the fermenting wort. Other folks use Beano to dry it out further.

A lot of us save yeast cakes from previous batches, I usually keep mine in a sanitized Snapple bottle. Check out whatever yeast cakes you might have on hand and find a different yeast than what you are using. Add a cup of an offsetting yeast cake - It’s not perfect, but there are hungry yeasts of another type that may be happy shaving off those remaining few points, not much else going on in their humble lives...!

 

[Brewshna]

A big thanks to all of you for the help, it's much appreciated.

 

[superiorsat]

Ok so just kegged a Belgian Tripel ( one of my top 5 favorites) that landed at 11.47%. Sg 10.85 with a 5lb honey addition as it was slowing down taking it to 1.100 according to Beersmith. Day 17 it was done and started cold crash. Had to take kids to theme park or I would have kegged yesterday. Today is day 21, at my 3 week max and beer is 1.013 and sample was spot on with no alcohol burn. Give this beer 10 days to 2 weeks in the keg and it will be a spot on( this beer has been gelatined as all my beers are except NEIPA's to speed up maturation process). Since I don't bottle it doesn't require a long conditioning period. You can make big beers without extended primary and secondary times IME. The bottling thing I never cared for as I kegged from day one and only bottled leftovers until I got tired of that as I either didn't wait for it to condition long enough or I just dislike natural carbed beer because my kegged beer always tasted better. Just one guy's experience so take it as such.

 

[JAReeves]

Another thing you can do to help with actual attenuation is mash overnight. When I do a big beer, 10%+, I mash overnight and for good measure, either put it onto a fresh yeast cake from a similar beer (Pale Ale>>Imperial, Dry Stout>>Imperial) or have a solid starter ready to go.

I am walking over to the fermenter right now to taste the Wheat Wine for Christmas, it was delicious after a 3-week primary. 10% ABV going into the secondary onto the crabapples, and if the sour culture did its job, maybe 13% by the end. It still has a couple months of bulk aging to go before bottling.

 

[tracer bullet]

I'm finishing up a stout that ended around 1.030, and looking back at my grain bill it was easy to see why (tons of Mecca Grade Opal 22 malt, not realizing at the time it was basically a crystal malt). That's just the background to say that what I've been doing is pouring a small amount of vanilla vodka into my glass before the stout goes in. Typing that out makes me sound like a crazy alcoholic but that 1/2 oz or so really seems to help dry the beer out and has given it a bit of a vanilla flavor I actually like. It might be a crappy idea and all in my head that it's helping but - maybe consider it or give it a try.

 

[VikeMan]

I'm finishing up a stout that ended around 1.030, and looking back at my grain bill it was easy to see why (tons of Mecca Grade Opal 22 malt, not realizing at the time it was basically a crystal malt).

I haven't used Opal 22 and don't know first hand how fermentable a wort it makes, but according to its specs, it's a base malt, with a lot of enzymes, i.e. enough DP to convert itself and an equal amount of non-base malts/grains.

I'm curious about your full grain bill, mash temp, mash length, and yeast strain. It should be possible to infer Opal 22's relative fermentability from that. Edit: and your OG also.