Breakfast Pastry/Parfait Sour ideas...

[Rob2010SS]

I recently had a Breakfast Pastry Sour from Humble Forager that was out of this world! Below is the one I had.

The wife and I want to make something like this. We were tossing ideas around last night and some kind of fruited french toast sour or a parfait sour came to mind. Not 100% sold on either one of those yet but just starting to get the gears turning as far as ingredients.

For sure, we want to use maple syrup, vanilla, and cinnamon, possibly brown sugar. Those are easy enough to use, we've used all of those before.

I'm toying with the idea of using granola. Never used granola before. What's the best way to do it - secondary? Maybe grind it up and add it after fermentation is complete?

How about marshmallows? I know vanilla is the main flavor in marshmallows but if you wanted to use them, I've seen them used in the boil (which we've done but we used marshmallow fluff in the boil) and I've seen them added to the keg and they just sit in there and dissolve over time, which is kind of cool, but I feel like that would make for too much variance in the beer over the life of the keg.

Anyone of you done anything like this? How'd it go? Any tips or tricks appreciated!!

Thanks.

 

[3 Dawg Night]

Marshmallows in the keg would give some additional fermentable sugar as well, so you'd have to plan for that. I think the vanilla in secondary/keg will get you more of the marshmallow you're looking for (but I've never used it, so I'm only guessing).

 

[Rob2010SS]

Well, this thread didn't get any traction but I'm going to keep it up to date as this is new for us and in case anyone else gives something like this a go, they can have a starting point!

Haven't brewed it yet, but still working on the recipe. Reached out to Drekker to see how they recommend using granola and they gave a little info, but not much. We're going to end up using it for sure in primary once fermentation is complete and possibly add it to the mash as well. Here's where we're at so far...

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Breakfast Parfait Sour

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: No Profile Selected
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 8 gallons (ending kettle volume)
Boil Size: 8.75 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.072
Efficiency: 75% (ending kettle)

Hop Utilization Multiplier: 0.97

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.086
Final Gravity: 1.025
ABV (standard): 8.06%
IBU (tinseth): 0
SRM (morey): 6.53
Mash pH: 5.35

FERMENTABLES:
18.5 lb - Pilsner (71.4%)
4.7 lb - Big-o Malted Oats (18.1%)
1.2 lb - Honey Malt (4.6%)
1.5 lb - Lactose (Milk Sugar) - (late boil kettle addition) (5.8%)

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 156 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 8.5 gal
2) Sparge, Temp: 169 F, Time: 75 min, Amount: 3 gal, Fly Sparge
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.39 qt/lb

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.5 tsp - Cinnamon, Time: 10 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil
4 each - Vanilla Bean, Time: 2 week, Type: Flavor, Use: Primary
4 lb - Granola, Time: 2 weeks, Type: Flavor, Use: Primary

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 81%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 54 - 77 F
Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)
Additional Yeast: Lactobacillus Blend OYL-605

Will update again once we brew this.

 

[skibb]

I would not boil the cinnamon - I've had best results adding it into secondary (make a tincture and dose to the flavor threshold you want).
Also, I would personally skip on the honey malt - you have tons of stuff already going on and wouldn't want maltiness to compete with the adjuncts.

If you are interested in getting actual marshmallow flavor into the pastry sour I highly recommend Olive Nation's marshmallow flavor (trust me no matter how many actual marshmallows you throw into a beer you will not get that actual flavor)

 

[Rob2010SS]

I would not boil the cinnamon - I've had best results adding it into secondary (make a tincture and dose to the flavor threshold you want).
Also, I would personally skip on the honey malt - you have tons of stuff already going on and wouldn't want maltiness to compete with the adjuncts.

If you are interested in getting actual marshmallow flavor into the pastry sour I highly recommend Olive Nation's marshmallow flavor (trust me no matter how many actual marshmallows you throw into a beer you will not get that actual flavor)

Interesting. Perhaps I'll give the cinnamon tincture a shot. We've added it in the boil before in an apple pie a la mode sour and thought it came out pretty good. When you have boiled cinnamon, what issue did you run into?

With the honey malt and the pilsner malt, in my head, I was trying to replicate a bit of the sweet bready/grainy flavor that would go with the granola later on. I'll admit I was on the fence with it in the first place. I may pull that out or reduce it a bit. However, now that I'm thinking about it, I may have been trying to replicate pie crust flavor in my head.... Which wouldn't make sense with this. So valid point!

 

[Rob2010SS]

I would not boil the cinnamon - I've had best results adding it into secondary (make a tincture and dose to the flavor threshold you want).
Also, I would personally skip on the honey malt - you have tons of stuff already going on and wouldn't want maltiness to compete with the adjuncts.

If you are interested in getting actual marshmallow flavor into the pastry sour I highly recommend Olive Nation's marshmallow flavor (trust me no matter how many actual marshmallows you throw into a beer you will not get that actual flavor)

I've nixed the marshmallow and am just going with vanilla beans at this point as well.

 

[skibb]

Interesting. Perhaps I'll give the cinnamon tincture a shot. We've added it in the boil before in an apple pie a la mode sour and thought it came out pretty good. When you have boiled cinnamon, what issue did you run into?

My general philosophy for adding adjuncts is always either during fermentation for fermentatbles (like fruit) or in the secondary to taste. That is the best way for me to dial in exactly what I am looking for and not taking a shot early and seeing if it pans out. Plus, for me being in a commercial setting, being able to split a base beer up into several smaller beers/releases means my base beers are pretty much as white of a canvas as I can manage when going down the pastry route.

 

[Rob2010SS]

My general philosophy for adding adjuncts is always either during fermentation for fermentatbles (like fruit) or in the secondary to taste. That is the best way for me to dial in exactly what I am looking for and not taking a shot early and seeing if it pans out. Plus, for me being in a commercial setting, being able to split a base beer up into several smaller beers/releases means my base beers are pretty much as white of a canvas as I can manage when going down the pastry route.

I gotcha. Makes a ton of sense. Cinnamon is still pretty new to me. When we used it last time, we did .75tsp and ended up having to add more to the keg. In this case, we want it to be pretty faint which is why we went with .50tsp. I felt it was pretty safe and if I do have to add more, it'll be minimal. I appreciate the feedback.

 

[superiorsat]

Final Gravity: 1.025

With 1.5 pounds lactose and mashing at 156 ( I did this with 12 oz lactose in a 6 gallon batch ) seems like you a pushing the limits of cloying sweet which to me always disqualifies a beer as enjoyable/drinkable. You mentioned earlier that you were using maple syrup for sure, but I don't see it in the recipe. Looks like you plan to let the granola ferment out for a couple weeks so that shouldn't add any sweetness to the final beer but if you plan to add maple syrup before kegging that will not ferment out then as I said earlier sounds like a really sweet beer. When I go pastry sour ( which I do a lot as sour's are all the wife ever wants ) I use a combination of cinnamon and nutmeg and quit a bit more than you have listed. I've found if you put it in the kettle other than some of the flavor the actual cinnamon and nutmeg get left behind on the bottom of the kettle after transfer. I prefer to add to the fermenter so the spice is all in there for the long haul. In researching marshmallow additions I stumbled across a notion that if you add enough vanilla beans it will come off with a marshmallow taste ( I will be testing that next brew with 6 vanilla beans soaked in vodka for a 6 gallon batch ).

 

[Rob2010SS]

With 1.5 pounds lactose and mashing at 156 ( I did this with 12 oz lactose in a 6 gallon batch ) seems like you a pushing the limits of cloying sweet which to me always disqualifies a beer as enjoyable/drinkable. You mentioned earlier that you were using maple syrup for sure, but I don't see it in the recipe. Looks like you plan to let the granola ferment out for a couple weeks so that shouldn't add any sweetness to the final beer but if you plan to add maple syrup before kegging that will not ferment out then as I said earlier sounds like a really sweet beer. When I go pastry sour ( which I do a lot as sour's are all the wife ever wants ) I use a combination of cinnamon and nutmeg and quit a bit more than you have listed. I've found if you put it in the kettle other than some of the flavor the actual cinnamon and nutmeg get left behind on the bottom of the kettle after transfer. I prefer to add to the fermenter so the spice is all in there for the long haul. In researching marshmallow additions I stumbled across a notion that if you add enough vanilla beans it will come off with a marshmallow taste ( I will be testing that next brew with 6 vanilla beans soaked in vodka for a 6 gallon batch ).

Thanks for the input! I appreciate it.

As for the cloying/sweet with the lactose and the high mash temp, I think the 3.2 pH acidity level, or lower, that I'm shooting for will help it not come off as cloying/sweet. Maybe, I could very well be wrong. These pastry sours, the ones I've had anyway, are usually a bit on the more viscous side which is really what I'm going for with the lactose and the high FG. I thought by mashing a bit higher, it'd get some more unfermentable dextrins that in combination with the lactose and FG, would help create that thick, viscous feel I'm shooting for. However, you may have a point. Just because I like the beers that way, doesn't mean other people do and we're serving this to a bunch of people. So maybe I'll drop that to 150F or 152F.

I eliminated the maple syrup idea. We were going to go breakfast pastry sour and we decided to go breakfast parfait sour (think vanilla yogurt with fruit, oats and granola).

With the granola, there's really nothing to ferment out I don't think. Maybe a little bit. I know the wife plans on using honey in the granola recipe she's making for this so there will be a little to ferment. I'm really using the granola just so the beer conditions on it and picks up that flavor.

You are the second one to mention cinnamon and not using it in the boil. Perhaps I'll move that to a fermenter addition as well. As I mentioned to another poster, we have used .75 tsp of cinnamon before in the boil and ended up having to add more in the keg because it faded so much.

I'm shooting less for marshmallow on this now and more for just straight vanilla. I might try a combination of madagascar and tahitian beans to not only get vanilla, but get a bit of that cherry flavor from the tahitian as well.

Thanks again for the input. Much appreciated!