Boulder "Shake" Chocolate Porter

[joegbeer]

I've been monitoring this thread because it's only Internet discussion I've found on Boulder Shake. I did my first attempt and it was an okay chocolate porter. Drinkable, not special. My brew had many characteristics that were similar to Boulder Shake, but it needs tweaking. I brew partial mash/extract. Here was my first attempt recipe:

1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)
12.0 oz Chocolate Wheat Malt (400.0 SRM)
4.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)

Steeped 25 minutes @ 150

1 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM)
6 lbs 9.6 oz English Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM)
2.0 oz Milk Sugar (Lactose) (0.0 SRM)
1.00 oz BSG Nugget [15.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz Brewcraft US Tettnang [6.40 %] - Boil 30.0 min
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)
2.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056)

Fermented 10 days. Roasted 8oz of raw cocoa nibs at 300 for 18 minutes. Added nibs in a sterilized hop bag into primary for 10 days. Kegged at 11 PSI. First pint was poured 2 weeks later.

Here were my notes on the differences in a side by side comparison:

1. Boulder Shake is sweeter, mine was more Baker's chocolate bitter.
2. Flavor of the finishing hops complimented the chocolate flavor better in the Boulder Shake.
3. Chocolate flavor is stronger in Boulder Shake

Next batch corrections:

1. Going to try 8 ounces of lactose
2. Moving the Tettnang hops boil time to either 10 or 15 minutes. Might increase the amount to compensate for the IBU loss. I'm still learning, but I think boiling at 30 minutes was not leaving enough of finishing hops flavor in the wort.
3. I thought 8 ounces of chocolate nibs was going to be an overkill. I can't tell if bundling the nibs in the muslin sack reduced the surface area. Maybe the increase in lactose will enhance the chocolate flavor. I'm leaning towards either not putting them in a bag or raising the nibs to 12 ounces.

Open for suggestions. I was hoping to nail this and then post the recipe. http://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/images/smilies/rockin.gif

 

[castillo556]

Don't kid yourself, either. They are using chocolate flavoring. There is no way they aren't.

 

[Hanso]

You certainly can do this without artificial flavor. Of course it's a possibility they are using it... but as a business why would you source that if you can do it for cheaper and not open up a whole new supply chain?

All of the flavors of Shake are consistent with and obtainable from the ingredients they claim. Sure they may have purposefully neglected to mention a key ingredient or something, but to me the biggest aspects needing answering are the amounts and the process. Mash time/temp is likely a big factor and I'd wager the answer is unusually short and relatively high.

I've played around with this a bit and was happy with my first attempt. The result was definitely pretty close but I didn't use all of the same ingredients they claim. I'm not really interested in achieving a "perfect clone"... just a great porter inspired by the flavors of Shake.

To your concerns/questions... I think lactose is not needed at all and I doubt it is in Shake. To get the balance sweeter, rather than adding sweetness on top of the bitterness, simply leave sweetness where it is and back down as needed on the bittering agents (hops and roasted ingredients).

The bakers chocolate bitterness issue:
The 12 oz steeped chocolate wheat or the roasting of the nibs are certainly the source of it, depending on how much roasting affected the nibs (I've never done that myself) I'd put my money on the chocolate wheat being too high, that 450L stuff is bitter as heck (although not tannic per se).

A vanilla bean will really help with bringing out the nibs...and I see no reason to roast them. Continuing to roast them while also increasing the amount can only make the risk of bakers chocolate bitterness stronger (if that was the source). I would either secondary 4-6 oz raw (or keg them loosely in a bag along with the vanilla). Eating them raw they don't taste potent but in beer it will really pull out the soft chocolate and mingle well with the chocolate malt elements.

Hops:
I'll just flat out say that Boulder's reported 39 IBU is higher than my perceived hop bitterness, either because of measuring system or something else. For a 15ish plato beer, no way. I'm assuming they mean 39 Tinseth from hops. If they are measuring in Rager or something else like factoring in roast bitterness, then fine. 25-30 IBU tinseth seems an appropriate target. Every self respecting American brewery knows IBUs numbers sell. Just sayin.

Anyway, I get almost no aroma/flavor from hops when I drink Shake, but maybe that's just me... personally I'd just go with a single 60 min addition of Nugget. I guess there's no reason to /not/ believe tettnang are also in there, but are they added as maybe a 30 min addition? Either way it's a pretty light dose.

Misc:
I'd also be surprised if Shake had that much Crystal, especially for an extract batch that seems high, but keeping it high is probably ok and it's best to change only one or two of the more obvious variables at a time.

Bottom line is roast less, bitter less, and use a vanilla bean if not already. No need for lactose to complicate matters. If you use black malt (they say it's there), just a tiny pinch.

These suggestions all come with a grain of salt (not literally (or wait, maybe??)) as I don't do extract brewing much and not sure entirely how to translate between all grain and extract with precision as the mash process affects the malts without diastatic power differently than if they were steeped in water.

Has anyone bothered to degas one and measure the final gravity? That is obviously key to the mash question, and if FG is high, could explain the reason why 39 IBU can still taste balanced.

 

[castillo556]

It's a pretty sweet beer, I bet the FG is somewhere around 10.16 or higher.

 

[joegbeer]

You certainly can do this without artificial flavor. Of course it's a possibility they are using it... but as a business why would you source that if you can do it for cheaper and not open up a whole new supply chain?

All of the flavors of Shake are consistent with and obtainable from the ingredients they claim.

Agree. That's my thinking as well.

To your concerns/questions... I think lactose is not needed at all and I doubt it is in Shake. To get the balance sweeter, rather than adding sweetness on top of the bitterness, simply leave sweetness where it is and back down as needed on the bittering agents (hops and roasted ingredients).

I've emailed Boulder brewing and they provided me all the ingredients with no measurements. Their email lists lactose as an ingredient:

Here's a list of the hops and grains we use in Shake:

• Pale malt
• Crystal malt
• Black malt
• Chocolate malt
• Lactose
• Nugget
• Tettnang

We use raw cacao nibs in Shake, but when I asked the brewmaster about any additional ingredients and processes, he said they were "trade secret."

The bakers chocolate bitterness issue:
The 12 oz steeped chocolate wheat or the roasting of the nibs are certainly the source of it, depending on how much roasting affected the nibs (I've never done that myself) I'd put my money on the chocolate wheat being too high, that 450L stuff is bitter as heck (although not tannic per se).

I've done about 20 batches and I love stouts and porters. I've never brewed with chocolate wheat before. I absolutely love the flavor and the mouthfeel of chocolate wheat in this beer. It's outstanding. I don't think it's the source, but I'll keep it in mind. I think the core Porter recipe here is not too far off. Right now the biggest problem with my recipe is that it does not have enough sweetness or chocolate flavor.

I think the bakers chocolate bitterness is coming from the nibs. I ate some of them after I roasted them and tasted it. Maybe I need to roast them longer? The reason I'm reluctant to go down on the nib volume is because there isn't enough chocolate taste in the beer. Although, I was thinking that the lactose might enhance the chocolate flavor with more sweetness. Kind of like what you were recommending with the vanilla bean.

A vanilla bean will really help with bringing out the nibs...and I see no reason to roast them. Continuing to roast them while also increasing the amount can only make the risk of bakers chocolate bitterness stronger (if that was the source). I would either secondary 4-6 oz raw (or keg them loosely in a bag along with the vanilla). Eating them raw they don't taste potent but in beer it will really pull out the soft chocolate and mingle well with the chocolate malt elements.

I like the idea. Agree that vanilla would probably enhance the chocolate flavor. Hell, I might even like it more than Boulder Shake. But I'm not convinced they are using vanilla and want to focus on coming close to the original before I start to innovate.

Hops:
I'll just flat out say that Boulder's reported 39 IBU is higher than my perceived hop bitterness, either because of measuring system or something else. For a 15ish plato beer, no way. I'm assuming they mean 39 Tinseth from hops. If they are measuring in Rager or something else like factoring in roast bitterness, then fine. 25-30 IBU tinseth seems an appropriate target. Every self respecting American brewery knows IBUs numbers sell. Just sayin.

Anyway, I get almost no aroma/flavor from hops when I drink Shake, but maybe that's just me... personally I'd just go with a single 60 min addition of Nugget. I guess there's no reason to /not/ believe tettnang are also in there, but are they added as maybe a 30 min addition? Either way it's a pretty light dose.

I got the hop list from Boulder. Just don't know amounts or timings.

I'm a nut about chocolate beers. I've had all the readily available chocolate beers. In Shake I really taste a subtle hop bitterness that compliments the chocolate flavor unlike any other chocolate beer I've tried. I really like it. It's definitely a very subtle flavor that I'm looking for. I'd say this is something I notice, but not a huge issue.

Misc:
I'd also be surprised if Shake had that much Crystal, especially for an extract batch that seems high, but keeping it high is probably ok and it's best to change only one or two of the more obvious variables at a time.

Bottom line is roast less, bitter less, and use a vanilla bean if not already. No need for lactose to complicate matters. If you use black malt (they say it's there), just a tiny pinch.

Agree 100% about keeping black malt very low. I'll adjust the crystal amounts once I fix the chocolate and sweetness issues.

Has anyone bothered to degas one and measure the final gravity? That is obviously key to the mash question, and if FG is high, could explain the reason why 39 IBU can still taste balanced.

I have not. Not a bad idea.

Thanks for your help.

 

[slym2none]

It's a pretty sweet beer, I bet the FG is somewhere around 10.16 or higher.

That would be one darn sweet beer!

 

[applescrap]

Don't kid yourself, either. They are using chocolate flavoring. There is no way they aren't.

I lived in boulder and if there is a brewery in the world who doesnt use artificial i would guess them but i could be wrong. There used to be a brewery in boulder called oasis that served food and beer they had a killer blueberry beer sorry just thinking of boulder

 

[aprichman]

If they're using an artificial flavor it would have to be disclosed on the label.

 

[castillo556]

That would be one darn sweet beer!

Woops. 1.016

 

[303Dan]

I lived in boulder and if there is a brewery in the world who doesnt use artificial i would guess them but i could be wrong. There used to be a brewery in boulder called oasis that served food and beer they had a killer blueberry beer sorry just thinking of boulder

Did you know that Oasis is back making beer again? Prost, down in Denver, lets them brew periodically on their equipment and you can now get a few of their old beers (Scarab Red, Nut Brown, etc) in bottles at a few different locations around town. Pretty nostalgic for me, I spent quite a bit of time at their old brewery when I went to college in Boulder in the mid 90s.

 

[applescrap]

Did you know that Oasis is back making beer again? Prost, down in Denver, lets them brew periodically on their equipment and you can now get a few of their old beers (Scarab Red, Nut Brown, etc) in bottles at a few different locations around town. Pretty nostalgic for me, I spent quite a bit of time at their old brewery when I went to college in Boulder in the mid 90s.

So we lived in Boulder and were in college there at the same time

 

[seagondollar]

This is what im trying. its definetely 40ish ibu, you can taste it behind the chocolate. I question the caramel, chocolate and black malt quantities, but I got to start somewhere.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Shake
Author: many

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Robust Porter
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.051
Efficiency: 73% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.061
Final Gravity: 1.017
ABV (standard): 5.78%
IBU (tinseth): 40.32
SRM (morey): 34.73

FERMENTABLES:
8.7 lb - American - Pale Ale (76.7%)
1.2 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 60L (10.6%)
0.4 lb - American - Chocolate (3.5%)
0.3 lb - German - Chocolate Wheat (2.6%)
0.5 lb - Lactose (Milk Sugar) (4.4%)
0.25 lb - American - Black Malt (2.2%)

HOPS:
0.65 oz - Nugget, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.9, Use: Boil for 45 min, IBU: 35.76
0.4 oz - Tettnanger, Type: Pellet, AA: 5, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 4.56

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 150 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 1.4 qt
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.5 qt/lb

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
6 oz - cacao nibs, Type: Spice, Use: Secondary

YEAST:
Wyeast - American Ale 1056
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (custom): 75%
Flocculation: Med-Low
Optimum Temp: 60 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 63 F
Pitch Rate: 1.25 (M cells / ml / deg P)
Additional Yeast: wyeast 1056

NOTES:
Brew Date 1/11/16

This recipe has been published online at:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/313138/shake

Generated by Brewer's Friend - http://www.brewersfriend.com/
Date: 2016-01-12 02:15 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2016-01-12 02:11 UTC

 

[Hanso]

Seems a bit high on both the chocolate wheat and the black malt but still worth a shot. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[seagondollar]

Seems a bit high on both the chocolate wheat and the black malt but still worth a shot. Let us know how it turns out.

Your right. After looking at it, I was way high on the dark malts. I think the edited version above will be closer. This is off and running, I hope to report back in 6 weeks. Sounds like toasting the cacao nibs will be necessary.

 

[seagondollar]

This is what im trying. its definetely 40ish ibu, you can taste it behind the chocolate. I question the caramel, chocolate and black malt quantities, but I got to start somewhere.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Shake
Author: many

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Robust Porter
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.051
Efficiency: 73% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.061
Final Gravity: 1.016
ABV (standard): 5.93%
IBU (tinseth): 40.32
SRM (morey): 34.73

FERMENTABLES:
8.7 lb - American - Pale Ale (76.7%)
1.2 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 60L (10.6%)
0.4 lb - American - Chocolate (3.5%)
0.3 lb - German - Chocolate Wheat (2.6%)
0.5 lb - Lactose (Milk Sugar) (4.4%)
0.25 lb - American - Black Malt (2.2%)

HOPS:
0.65 oz - Nugget, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.9, Use: Boil for 45 min, IBU: 35.76
0.4 oz - Tettnanger, Type: Pellet, AA: 5, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 4.56

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 150 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 1.4 qt
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.5 qt/lb

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
6 oz - cacao nibs, Type: Spice, Use: Secondary

YEAST:
Wyeast - American Ale 1056
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (custom): 75%
Flocculation: Med-Low
Optimum Temp: 60 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 63 F
Pitch Rate: 1.25 (M cells / ml / deg P)
Additional Yeast: wyeast 1056

NOTES:
Brew Date 1/11/16

This recipe has been published online at:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/313138/shake

Generated by Brewer's Friend - http://www.brewersfriend.com/
Date: 2016-01-12 02:15 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2016-01-12 02:11 UTC

Just tasted this at 2 weeks in Primary, and Im pretty pumped. Its tasting excellent, and I nailed the ABV. Now im just a little nervous as to how much cacao nibs to add. Im thinking 6oz toasted, for a few weeks. Any advice there would be appreciated.

 

[Hanso]

6 oz is probably good, I'd caution against toasting too hot or too long.

 

[AkTom]

This does sound good. It might have to go into my brew queue.

 

[seagondollar]

6 oz is probably good, I'd caution against toasting too hot or too long.

Cool. Probably do 200F for 10 min or so. Shoot for the aroma mostly.

 

[joegbeer]

I've been roasting nibs at 300 for 15 minutes with good results. I've tried 12 minutes, 18 minute and found 15 worked best.

http://ultimatechocolateblog.blogspot.com/2013/04/using-cacao-nibs-to-make-chocolate-at.html

 

[joegbeer]

After making 4 batches of my extract brew for this beer with different amounts of lactose and caocao nibs (great beer by the way), it still doesn't have the same milk chocolcate sweetness as the actual Boulder. Talking with my local home brew club, several people think that there is a chocolate extract being added by Boulder.

So my next batch I'm going to add some chocolate extract to a glass until the sweetness of the chocolate flavor improves and then extrapolate for the keg.

 

[seagondollar]

After making 4 batches of my extract brew for this beer with different amounts of lactose and caocao nibs (great beer by the way), it still doesn't have the same milk chocolcate sweetness as the actual Boulder. Talking with my local home brew club, several people think that there is a chocolate extract being added by Boulder.

So my next batch I'm going to add some chocolate extract to a glass until the sweetness of the chocolate flavor improves and then extrapolate for the keg.

I think your right. I added my cacao nibs today and it doesn't smell even close to what their beer smells like. I emailed boulder beer last week and this is what they said, but i don't believe them...


Thanks for reaching out to us, and we’re so glad you enjoy our Shake Chocolate Porter! We do use cacao nibs for that dark chocolate flavor and lactose (milk sugar) for a rich mouthfeel. No nuts, so don’t worry if you have any nut allergies! There’s also a wide array of malted grains in Shake, including chocolate malt and chocolate wheat.



Thanks so much! If you get to the Boulder area, please come on by for a brewery tour and tasting in our Pub!



Cheers,

 

[castillo556]

You're crazy to think there isn't chocolate flavoring added to this beer

 

[seagondollar]

Ive had this on 5oz of cacao nibs for a few weeks now and it tastes spot on, but lacks that chocolate milk aroma that the original shake porter has. I think im gonna try chocolate flavoring for the aroma. Like castillo said, shake must have a flavoring in there. Anybody used a chocolate extract they can recommend?

 

[bondra76]

Anybody used a chocolate extract they can recommend?

(kidding...)

Definitely curious to hear the outcome here. I make a chocolate coconut porter. I went with 8oz of nibs and .5 lb of lactose on my last one. Got big time flavor, and big time mouthfeel.

The thing I notice with Boulder Shake is the carbonation from the lactose (it's pretty "lasting" and doesn't go away quickly after you drink it). I'm wondering actually if they even use more than .5lb lactose. It's a bomb of sweetness for sure, which you could get from the lactose. More lactose maybe evens out the bitterness from the chocolate?

I may have to conduct some 1 gallon experiments of this myself.

 

[castillo556]

(kidding...)



The thing I notice with Boulder Shake is the carbonation from the lactose (it's pretty "lasting" and doesn't go away quickly after you drink it). I'm wondering actually if they even use more than .5lb lactose. It's a bomb of sweetness for sure, which you could get from the lactose. More lactose maybe evens out the bitterness from the chocolate?

I may have to conduct some 1 gallon experiments of this myself.

Lactose doesn't produce carbonation. Did you mean nitrogen? Boulder Shake is often served on nitro.

 

[seagondollar]

(kidding...)

Definitely curious to hear the outcome here. I make a chocolate coconut porter. I went with 8oz of nibs and .5 lb of lactose on my last one. Got big time flavor, and big time mouthfeel.

The thing I notice with Boulder Shake is the carbonation from the lactose (it's pretty "lasting" and doesn't go away quickly after you drink it). I'm wondering actually if they even use more than .5lb lactose. It's a bomb of sweetness for sure, which you could get from the lactose. More lactose maybe evens out the bitterness from the chocolate?

I may have to conduct some 1 gallon experiments of this myself.

I swear this beer smells like nesquick, i know your kidding, but that's the nose i get off it. Would you say 8oz got you that nesquick type aroma?

 

[seagondollar]

There is no way their not using Nestle quick in this beer. 2 weeks now on 5 oz cacao nibs and this tastes identical to their version, minus the aroma. Even at 5oz of nibs I only get a slight cacao chocolate nose to it. I'm thinking of doing something stupid. I think im going to add 2oz of Nestles chocolate syrup at kegging. In looking at the ingredients, I don't see anything crazy that would screw up my final product post fermentation.

Ingredients: SUGAR, WATER, COCOA PROCESSED WITH ALKALI, LESS THAN 2% OF SALT, CITRIC ACID, ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR, POTASSIUM SORBATE (PRESERVATIVE), XANTHAN GUM, CARAMEL COLOR, RED 40, BLUE 1, YELLOW 6.

I feel like 2oz will be just enough to get the aroma. This beer is driving me crazy : ). There is a reason they call it "Shake." Its not because they use nibs. They must use enough nibs for the bittering aspect of chocolate, but thats it. When you make a chocolate shake, you add chocolate syrup to ice cream, so that's why I think they add syrup to this beer.

 

[FarmerTed]

I really, really doubt they use Nestle products making the beer. Potassium sorbate can screw up yeast, if there's enough of it present. I would just stick to the ingredients they list on their site. There are beers out there like Brooklyn Black Chocolate stout that have an amazing chocolate aroma with no spices or additives at all-it just comes from the malt.

 

[blizz81]

What about Nielsen-Massey chocolate extract? I'm planning on using that stuff in an andes mint stout after researching around on chocolate extracts / flavorings.

 

[blizz81]

Also, I bet this finishes higher than 1.016, even before / without the lactose.