It seems like you haven't learn much if this is your advise with regards to how to use a unitank. You might as well say that unitanks are useless because fermenting under pressure requires additional steps that you find inconvenient, or too difficult to accomplish. I actually find proper use of my unitank to add convenience and quality to my finished product. Is there a learning curve? Yes. Is the OP lazy or incapable of learning how to properly use his new equipment? I hope not. He seems to be willing to ask some questions and do some research on the subject. Don't steer him away with baseless opinions.
Bottling
- Thread starter tommy24a
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It seems like you haven't learn much if this is your advise with regards to how to use a unitank. You might as well say that unitanks are useless because fermenting under pressure requires additional steps that you find inconvenient, or too difficult to accomplish. I actually find proper use of my unitank to add convenience and quality to my finished product. Is there a learning curve? Yes. Is the OP lazy or incapable of learning how to properly use his new equipment? I hope not. He seems to be willing to ask some questions and do some research on the subject. Don't steer him away with baseless opinions.
McKnuckle
Well-Known Member
You seem nice. 
My opinion is not baseless. I do ferment under pressure and understand how it works. The OP seems to have planned to do so on brand new equipment without a full understanding of how to package in BOTTLES, or why pressure fermentation might be chosen, or ruled out, in the first place.
I and others have numerous helpful posts on this thread. The one you quoted is only part of the conversation.
My opinion is not baseless. I do ferment under pressure and understand how it works. The OP seems to have planned to do so on brand new equipment without a full understanding of how to package in BOTTLES, or why pressure fermentation might be chosen, or ruled out, in the first place.
I and others have numerous helpful posts on this thread. The one you quoted is only part of the conversation.
OP
OP
I appreciate everyones opinion and posts. Yes me and my son are newbies with this equipment for sure. I have invested as I'm sure you are aware a good deal of money to get my son up and running with the least amount of problems and waste. Yes I'm sure there will be a huge learning curve and that's the reason I come to these forums for help and advice. Figured most of you guys have seen and experienced a heck of a lot more than me in the brewing world. I am all eyes and ears with all postings. Thanks guys.!You seem nice.
My opinion is not baseless. I do ferment under pressure and understand how it works. The OP seems to have planned to do so on brand new equipment without a full understanding of how to package in BOTTLES, or why pressure fermentation might be chosen, or ruled out, in the first place.
I and others have numerous helpful posts on this thread. The one you quoted is only part of the conversation.
McKnuckle
Well-Known Member
You're gonna have a great time, Tommy. Nobody is discouraging you from fermenting under pressure or taking advantage of all the bells and whistles you've invested in! But there are a few things that, while they can be done, are going to present layers of extra, unnecessary challenges. I think that point's been made!
When you're ready to put this beer in a keg, that'll be the best time to crank up the pressure and learn how to do it. If you're still up for bottling 10 gallons under pressure, there's lots of info in the thread to digest.
For me, the reading, learning, trying, refining, trying again cycle is one of the joys of home brewing. But I also don't want to knock my head against the proverbial wall.
When you're ready to put this beer in a keg, that'll be the best time to crank up the pressure and learn how to do it. If you're still up for bottling 10 gallons under pressure, there's lots of info in the thread to digest.
For me, the reading, learning, trying, refining, trying again cycle is one of the joys of home brewing. But I also don't want to knock my head against the proverbial wall.
OP
OP
I hear you! I got the wall picked out already where I'm going to knock my head!! Lol! of all the info in this thread I'm leaning towards kegging into corneys and then filling the bottles we need from there. Now I'm sure that has pros and cons as well as well as different ways to do it.You're gonna have a great time, Tommy. Nobody is discouraging you from fermenting under pressure or taking advantage of all the bells and whistles you've invested in! But there are a few things that, while they can be done, are going to present layers of extra, unnecessary challenges. I think that point's been made!
When you're ready to put this beer in a keg, that'll be the best time to crank up the pressure and learn how to do it. If you're still up for bottling 10 gallons under pressure, there's lots of info in the thread to digest.
For me, the reading, learning, trying, refining, trying again cycle is one of the joys of home brewing. But I also don't want to knock my head against the proverbial wall.
Julian Høstan Urrea
Soyyojuli
I was sendt one of these to test and review. Havent gotten to it yet, but will be posting a vídeo and reciew soon. First impressions are really gold though. Maybe interesting for somebody thata thinking about bottling 10gallons
https://boel.company/product/itap-crown-cap/
https://boel.company/product/itap-crown-cap/
OP
OP
Looks nice..looking forward to hearing your review. Thanks!
Julian Høstan Urrea
Soyyojuli
Also, I personally don't like the beer gun or the complicated counter pressure filler. I have almost stopped bottling because it was too much of a hazzle. I ferment under pressure, carb up and transfer to keg.
Your very first brew or your first brew with the Unitank?
As others have said, when filling bottles with pre-carbonated beer the beer needs to be a) ice cold, and b) it needs to be done under counter pressure to keep foaming down. Commercial bottling is done that way, straight from the Bright Tank, with (additional) in-line carbonation if necessary.
Now filling kegs with (partially) pre-carbonated beer is also best done ice cold and often under counter pressure to reduce foaming.
Counter pressure filling is needed to keep the carbonation in the beer, similar to the chart above, keeping the exact and fine balance between pressure and temp.
You seem nice.
My opinion is not baseless. I do ferment under pressure and understand how it works. The OP seems to have planned to do so on brand new equipment without a full understanding of how to package in BOTTLES, or why pressure fermentation might be chosen, or ruled out, in the first place.
I and others have numerous helpful posts on this thread. The one you quoted is only part of the conversation.
Before my last reply to post #30 (your post) in this thread, your only other posts, ones which you deemed helpful, were posts #12 of #14 in which you say:
and
Fermenting and packaging under pressure is great with a keg, but bottles - man... I know at least that *I* wouldn't touch that with a 10' mash paddle. You may be built of stronger stuff!
The issue now is that if your beer is under pressure, you will need to calculate how many volumes of CO2 are already in it, in order to compensate when bottling. Otherwise you'll get the proverbial bombs. You can't just use the standard priming sugar calculators that assume fermentation at atmospheric pressure.
For example, if your fermenter is sitting at 65ºF and held at 10 psi, you already have 1.41 vols. CO2 in it. To carbonate and get 2.4 vols., you'd want to enter 1.0 for target CO2 vols. in a priming calculator. That's the difference between what you already have and what your actual target is.
In both of these post you steer the OP away from bottling his brew directly from the unitank. Your argument indicates that bottling carbonated beer from a unitank is some out of reach possibly that would only result is total disaster, for which the OP should "shoot some video" of it. This argument is made without any support, which by definition, makes it baseless opinion. On top of that you told the OP that he needs to pressurize his fermenter to "20-something psi range" to reach proper carbonation levels in preparation to bottle at 60F. This is well above the maximum rated working pressure of the OP's vessel, which hopefully is safe guarded by a PRV. If you knew anything about bottling carbonated beer, you would know that it can not be done at 60F without ending in the foamy disaster you alluded too. In post #14 you recommend to the OP that he could move his partially carbonated beer to a bottling bucket and add priming sugar to finish carbonating in the bottle. Luckily @Vale71 was able to add some actual knowledge that hopefully derailed the disastrous result this beauty would have produced.
My advise to the OP (@tommy24a) is you just invested quite a bit of money in some pretty nice equipment. Congrats! You should be motivated to learn about it, and to use it to its full capabilities. While researching you might find that some of the processes that must be utilized to achieve a specific goal are beyond your current skill level. Some of them might require additional tools/equipment that you currently do not have or wish to aquire. The decision to not attempt these processes are YOURS to make. Many members, including myself, will be more than happy to outline the steps required to achieve a specific result. Happy Brewing!
McKnuckle
Well-Known Member
In fact in post #14 I did not mention anything about bottling buckets, and I did not, nor would I, recommend that. The rest of your condescending and presumptuous reply is not worth addressing, other than that I stand by my advice, which was given with courtesy, respect, and experience. That's how I approach all of my exchanges on this forum... even this one with you.
Oh please... The OP states in post #13:
This is after the fact that his beer was thought to have been sitting under pressure. You clearly acknowledged this fact in post #14, which happens to be the very post in which you instruct the OP to add priming sugar based upon a calculation which accounts for the level of carbonation already achieved:
Your advise, thus far has discouraged the OP from even attempting to achieve one of his goals. A goal with which you do not seem to have any experience with based upon the lack of information you used to support your argument. Your advise also contains critical flaws that would have created problems for the OP if he were to have followed it. I do not see how misdirecting and misinforming an individual can be considered courteous, or respectful. Unless perhaps you work for mainstream media. Don't be surprised when someone disagrees with you and brings it to your attention.
This is after the fact that his beer was thought to have been sitting under pressure. You clearly acknowledged this fact in post #14, which happens to be the very post in which you instruct the OP to add priming sugar based upon a calculation which accounts for the level of carbonation already achieved:
Fermenting and packaging under pressure is great with a keg, but bottles - man... I know at least that *I* wouldn't touch that with a 10' mash paddle. You may be built of stronger stuff!
The issue now is that if your beer is under pressure, you will need to calculate how many volumes of CO2 are already in it, in order to compensate when bottling. Otherwise you'll get the proverbial bombs. You can't just use the standard priming sugar calculators that assume fermentation at atmospheric pressure.
For example, if your fermenter is sitting at 65ºF and held at 10 psi, you already have 1.41 vols. CO2 in it. To carbonate and get 2.4 vols., you'd want to enter 1.0 for target CO2 vols. in a priming calculator. That's the difference between what you already have and what your actual target is.
Your advise, thus far has discouraged the OP from even attempting to achieve one of his goals. A goal with which you do not seem to have any experience with based upon the lack of information you used to support your argument. Your advise also contains critical flaws that would have created problems for the OP if he were to have followed it. I do not see how misdirecting and misinforming an individual can be considered courteous, or respectful. Unless perhaps you work for mainstream media. Don't be surprised when someone disagrees with you and brings it to your attention.
McKnuckle
Well-Known Member
#ignored
Well This is the first sad read I have had>>>>>>>>>>>> That said not looking forward to other critique of this nature. Your opinion is yours as mine is mine. and the fellow member you criticized has his. Nothing personal, but after 72 years of living I think we all just need to be nice
[Moderator's Note]
Yes guys, play nice together!
Discussion and critique is fine, pointing out bad advice is appreciated, just show us why and provide an alternate process that's better.
No name calling, no personal attacks, or this thread gets... Shut Down!
Yes guys, play nice together!
Discussion and critique is fine, pointing out bad advice is appreciated, just show us why and provide an alternate process that's better.
No name calling, no personal attacks, or this thread gets... Shut Down!
OP
OP
Thanks for your help....yes I am trying to learn as much as possible about my system. I am sure I will have more questions in the near future. Just wanted to setup my son with some decent equipment from the start. I have co2 equipment on order and the next will be a glycol chiller and can machine after that. Then "Dads" hopefully done with the high dollar stuff for awhile. Lol!
This is why we can't have nice things... :sigh:
OP
OP
Lol
I understand your Unitank is a new acquisition, but a I asked before, how much experience do you have with beer brewing?
OP
OP
On and off about 1 1\2 years started with extract and latley moved to AG. But it was all with propane , BK and cooler MT. And then fermented in Glass carboy.
Alright!
Some asked earlier, why bottle everything? Most of us, rather sooner than later, move to kegging. Corny keg type, not Sanke.
Yes, it's another outlay and some work to build, but the time and perhaps space savings are definitely worth it.
Plus you can transfer to kegs without introducing oxygen (air) to your beer which causes oxidation. Oxygen exposure is much more difficult to avoid with bottles, even when filling straight from the Unitank.
OP
OP
Understand the keg options. Eventually he want to can his brew to take to friends and family. But until we get the canning system we are going to bottle for awhile.
Julian Høstan Urrea
Soyyojuli
Quoting Advance here:
In post #14 you recommend to the OP that he could move his partially carbonated beer to a bottling bucket and add priming sugar to finish carbonating in the bottle. Luckily @Vale71 was able to add some actual knowledge that hopefully derailed the disastrous result this beauty would have produced.
Hahaha oh man! I would have paid to see that **** storm in action
In post #14 you recommend to the OP that he could move his partially carbonated beer to a bottling bucket and add priming sugar to finish carbonating in the bottle. Luckily @Vale71 was able to add some actual knowledge that hopefully derailed the disastrous result this beauty would have produced.
Hahaha oh man! I would have paid to see that **** storm in action
BrewnWKopperKat
(Ο_Ο)
Have you seen some of the topics here (and over in reddit's /r/homebrewing) where people are reporting success bottling NEIPAs?
Julian Høstan Urrea
Soyyojuli
Problem with NEIPAS is that they oxidise very quickly. Hard to bottle without removing oxigen first. But some people are having success with a beer gun and a lot of co2
BrewnWKopperKat
(Ο_Ο)
That's the problem.
As I mentioned in #54, people are reporting success bottling NEIPAs.
For example:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...le-conditioned-ipa.653784/page-7#post-9028154
Julian Høstan Urrea
Soyyojuli
Seems like a good way to do it. I'm deffo going to try out the boel tap I was sendt for testing on a NEIPA, as the tap has a purge button. I suspect this little handy device will be a game changer for beers like NEIPAs.
I bought this Tapcooler Counter Pressure Bottle Filler for Forward Sealing Faucets for a myriad of reasons, I have yet to try it..
You/he might want to think again about the canning option. I really get the "wow" factor of presenting some canned beer; it's def a couple steps of cool above bottling to show off and can be very professional looking, and that's worth something to many (me included, I'll admit). But for me anyway a review of the application and costs/benefits has led me to generally keg (for home) and occasionally bottle (e.g. give aways, competitions and specialty brews such as trappist ales). As most here will agree, bottling is a lot more work and time, and I expect canning is as much or moreso, not to mention the relatively high expense at our volumes. For "give aways", bottles are perfect. It is inexpensive (esp. if you get your bottles back and/or have a cheap source), and you can print your own fun labels if you are so inclined. I expect these gifts to be drank rather quickly, and not be very susceptible to going off. I don't want to have many dozens of bottles (or cans for that matter) sitting in my fridge(s) for home consumption, which is another value of kegs. This is only my perspective, and please do what you want.
OP
OP
Thanks for your input.. I value all suggestions and ideas that have been posted. Its what makes these forums a great source and a wealth of information to reference. Lot of things to consider for sure. Thank again!
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