Bottling with Rock Sugar takes longer time to carbonate than White Sugar?

[Miles_1111]

I used to use while suger when bottling. Normally I do proportion of 8g/ 1L (white sugar/wort). Firstly mix white sugar with 250-300ml water and boiling them for 10 mins, then put this solution in the bottling bucket after it cools down to room temeperature; Secondly, transfer the wort from fermentor to the bottling bucket for them to throughly mix with sugar solution; Thirdly, fill the bottles from bottling bucket.
This way works fine so far, normally after 2 weeks carbonating in the bottle I would get a nice head and foam. However, since I have had too much oxidation problem for my Pale ales and IPAs, I decided to ditch the bottling bucket and chose to bottle from the fermentor directly. I put a Rock Sugar ( around 2.6g for 330ml, which is the same as 8g/ 1L ) in the bottle firstly, then fill the bottles with wort. But after two weeks, there is almost no head and CO2. Ever after 3-4 weeks the foam is still very subtle... Anyone also had this problem? Is this because the rock sugar need more time to dissolve before start reacting with yeast? Thank you.

 

[VikeMan]

Is this because the rock sugar need more time to dissolve before start reacting with yeast?

Can you see undissolved sugar in your bottles? If not, I suspect that's not the issue.

One thing about products sold as rock sugar/candi sugar... They are sometimes made by making a syrup (with water and sugar) and then cooling, leaving some water in the rock. So, if you use the same weight of rock sugar as you would for table sugar, you'd get less actual sugar and thus less carbonation.

Also, what's the color of your rock sugar? The darker it is, the more sugars have been converted into something that's not fermentable.

 

[Miles_1111]

Can you see undissolved sugar in your bottles? If not, I suspect that's not the issue.

One thing about products sold as rock sugar/candi sugar... They are sometimes made by making a syrup (with water and sugar) and then cooling, leaving some water in the rock. So, if you use the same weight of rock sugar as you would for table sugar, you'd get less actual sugar and thus less carbonation.

Also, what's the color of your rock sugar? The darker it is, the more sugars have been converted into something that's not fermentable.

No, I don't hink there is any solid rock sugar left in the bottles. The rock sugar's color is white crystal, so it's supposed to be totally fermented.

It seems I just need to incread the weight of rock sugar use for each bottle, next time I will try by 3g/330ml and see how it goes. The thing is I used rock sugar last year with 2.6g/330ml, and it worked well, after two weeks it gave me nice foam and head. But that might be different bag or brand of the rock sugar from what I am using this year, so I guess not all rock sugar are made that way, depends on brands? I hope they will state in the bag if the sugar contains water or not.... Also the water left in the rock might be a potential contamination issue?

 

[VikeMan]

But that might be different bag or brand of the rock sugar from what I am using this year, so I guess not all rock sugar are made that way, depends on brands? I hope they will state in the bag if the sugar contains water or not.... Also the water left in the rock might be a potential contamination issue?

Is there some reason you need/want to use rock sugar? I wouldn't count on being able to discern the amount of water content from the label, and I imagine it's a pain to weigh out even amounts for each bottle, given its uneven, chunky configuration. I wouldn't really worry too much about contamination, but there are easier and more consistent ways to prime individual bottles. You could measure table sugar, or use domino dots (small table sugar cubes), or use carbonation drops.

 

[Miles_1111]

Is there some reason you need/want to use rock sugar? I wouldn't count on being able to discern the amount of water content from the label, and I imagine it's a pain to weigh out even amounts for each bottle, given its uneven, chunky configuration. I wouldn't really worry too much about contamination, but there are easier and more consistent ways to prime individual bottles. You could measure table sugar, or use domino dots (small table sugar cubes), or use carbonation drops.

I think I have to use solid rock sugar ( or carbonation drops that you suggested ) is because when I bottle I will input the tube to the bottom of the bottle and wait until the wort fill all the way up to the mouth of bottle, then let the work rush out a little bit before tighten the tube. The reason I let the wort rush out a bit is (1) the starsan foam will be out of the bottle (2) In that way when I pull out the tube it will leave a smaller room for oxygen at the top of the bottle. So I am afriad if the table sugar (small particles ) will be rushed out as well?

 

[Miraculix]

Table sugar sinks to the bottom, it won't be flushed out. If you have one of these bottling sticks try to push the part below, that opens the stick, with the inside of the bottle neck (after filling the bottle normally), this way you can fill it up almost to the rim, it works pretty well.

Ah, and don't worry about that little star San foam. It's no problem, you don't have to flush it out. The majority of the star San liquor is anyway not in form of foam in the bottle, so the effect you are having there is small anyway.

 

[Miles_1111]

Table sugar sinks to the bottom, it won't be flushed out. If you have one of these bottling sticks try to push the part below, that opens the stick, with the inside of the bottle neck (after filling the bottle normally), this way you can fill it up almost to the rim, it works pretty well.

Ah, and don't worry about that little star San foam. It's no problem, you don't have to flush it out. The majority of the star San liquor is anyway not in form of foam in the bottle, so the effect you are having there is small anyway.

I have a problem using the bottle filling stick ( with the stopper at the end ). When the stopper reach the bottom of the bottle, the work starts flushing into the bottle, but inside the stick the wort was not fully occupying the stick and only half of the inside space of the stick with wort flushing through, the other half was air and empty, I am afriad that will cause oxidation problem. The tube which connecting the stick was fully occupied with wort though. The same thing happens when I use faucet. No matter I use filling stick or a short tube connnect with the faucet, once turn on the faucet, the wort only occupy half of the stick or tube. To avoid this, I just use long tube and siphon to bottle. Is that situation a problem or I am over concerned? How to fix it? Thanks.

 

[bruce_the_loon]

I have a problem using the bottle filling stick ( with the stopper at the end ). When the stopper reach the bottom of the bottle, the work starts flushing into the bottle, but inside the stick the wort was not fully occupying the stick and only half of the inside space of the stick with wort flushing through, the other half was air and empty, I am afriad that will cause oxidation problem. The tube which connecting the stick was fully occupied with wort though. The same thing happens when I use faucet. No matter I use filling stick or a short tube connnect with the faucet, once turn on the faucet, the wort only occupy half of the stick or tube. To avoid this, I just use long tube and siphon to bottle. Is that situation a problem or I am over concerned? How to fix it? Thanks.

First, make sure the faucet on the bottling bucket is in the fully open position. The plastic ones you turn 90 degrees need to be at right-angles to the body of the faucet. That ensures maximum flow rate. and normally it blows itself clear within the first bottle.

If it persists, leave the faucet fully open and carefully tilt the bottling bucket towards the faucet side to allow the air to flow out of the faucet body and break the airlock trapping it in the faucet and filler tube.

A problem could be if you have a mesh filter on the inside of the faucet. That might clog and reduce flow enough to not blow the air out. Neither of my bottling buckets have a filter, and only one has a sediment reducers (cap with a half-moon cutout which is supposed to keep sediment out) and that doesn't cause problems for my bottling.

 

[IslandLizard]

Have you thought about kegging instead of bottling?
Especially for hoppier beers, kegging is the only way to prevent oxidation when using the right methods.

Plus you can enjoy your beer much, much sooner. As soon as in 3 days from brewing to glass if you're willing to push the process a bit. But 10-14 days is very attainable under normal circumstances.

 

[Miles_1111]

First, make sure the faucet on the bottling bucket is in the fully open position. The plastic ones you turn 90 degrees need to be at right-angles to the body of the faucet. That ensures maximum flow rate. and normally it blows itself clear within the first bottle.

If it persists, leave the faucet fully open and carefully tilt the bottling bucket towards the faucet side to allow the air to flow out of the faucet body and break the airlock trapping it in the faucet and filler tube.

A problem could be if you have a mesh filter on the inside of the faucet. That might clog and reduce flow enough to not blow the air out. Neither of my bottling buckets have a filter, and only one has a sediment reducers (cap with a half-moon cutout which is supposed to keep sediment out) and that doesn't cause problems for my bottling.

I did put turn the faucet to the fully open position, where the gap inside the faucet is the biggest in order to maximie the flow. And there is no msh filter inside. I will try to drive the the air trapping in the faucet and filler tube by the method you mentioned. I could be difficulte to break the airlock, might takes several attempts.

 

[Miles_1111]

Have you thought about kegging instead of bottling?
Especially for hoppier beers, kegging is the only way to prevent oxidation when using the right methods.

Plus you can enjoy your beer much, much sooner. As soon as in 3 days from brewing to glass if you're willing to push the process a bit. But 10-14 days is very attainable under normal circumstances.

Since I want to take homebrewed beers to friends or even enter the competition, so did not think of kegging in the first place. But if bottling dose not work well for hoppier beers, I would do kegging. Just wondering how those prize winner IPAs did for bottling..

 

[bruce_the_loon]

I did put turn the faucet to the fully open position, where the gap inside the faucet is the biggest in order to maximie the flow. And there is no msh filter inside. I will try to drive the the air trapping in the faucet and filler tube by the method you mentioned. I could be difficulte to break the airlock, might takes several attempts.

One other thing to check, if you can carefully remove the spring-loaded tip of the bottling wand, check that nothing is blocking it. I get hop material blocking mine sometimes and it wouldn't surprise me if there was plastic shavings from the manufacturing process.

Be careful, the tips normally have three parts, the outer tube that is pressure-fitted to the clear plastic wand, the inner valve stick (which is what is pushed up by the bottom of the bottle) and the spring which could end up bouncing away if you're unlucky.

 

[VikeMan]

Since I want to take homebrewed beers to friends or even enter the competition, so did not think of kegging in the first place. But if bottling dose not work well for hoppier beers, I would do kegging. Just wondering how those prize winner IPAs did for bottling..

I don't have data (other than anecdotal), but I'd be very surprised if a significant portion of award winning IPAs are bottle conditioned. Keggers who enter competitions typically use beer guns or counterpressure fillers to bottle their entries.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

But if bottling dose not work well for hoppier beers,

There is evidence that people may have bottling processes that work well (for them anyway) with hopper beers: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...le-conditioned-ipa.653784/page-6#post-8877059

Domino dots used to come in a couple of sizes. Apparently the one that was "just right" for 12 oz bottles has been discontinued: Domino Dots FYI

 

[Miles_1111]

One other thing to check, if you can carefully remove the spring-loaded tip of the bottling wand, check that nothing is blocking it. I get hop material blocking mine sometimes and it wouldn't surprise me if there was plastic shavings from the manufacturing process.

I noticed there indeed were a bit of plastic shaving inside the faucet. Poor manufacturing... this is one of the culprits.