Bottling valve on fermentation vessel - should I worry about contamination?

[homer383]

Hi,

I use plastic valve on my plastic fermentation vessel. I use this valve also for taking samples during fermentation. Then I use it for bottling as well. I did not have issues with contamination. As I take samples during the fermentation process through this valve, there can be a small amount of beer left in the valve's tube (even if I clean it inside the valve's tube via a cotton stick). Should I worry about this? As I mentioned, I did not have any issues when I bottled the beer via that valve.

I bought another vessel which I would like to use for secondary fermentation and I do not know if it is safe to use the valve which I took samples via before. Can I potentially infect my brew?

 

[kh54s10]

There are plenty of people who use fermenters with valves and have no issues. But IMO, it is a big risk. Especially if you are taking samples during the process. Drop a little wort in a container and leave it on a counter for a couple of days then look at it. MOLD!

 

[homer383]

OK, so I will transfer the beer to the secondary with a sanitized tube to be 100% sure.

 

[kh54s10]

OK, so I will transfer the beer to the secondary with a sanitized tube to be 100% sure.

You don't even need to go to secondary unless you are adding fruit or something. IMO, the less you mess with the beer the better.

 

[microbusbrewery]

Get a spray bottle and fill it with Star San. Spray the outside and inside of the valve before and after every sampling.

 

[Nummey]

Get a spray bottle and fill it with Star San. Spray the outside and inside of the valve before and after every sampling.

Exactly this.....I also spray a piece of aluminum foil and ball it up around the spigot, probably not necessary but why not

 

[SGTSparty]

Exactly this.....I also spray a piece of aluminum foil and ball it up around the spigot, probably not necessary but why not

Most of those spigots can be rotated, even when full, if all else fails, turn it so the spigot faces upward and fill it w/ star san

 

[homer383]

You don't even need to go to secondary unless you are adding fruit or something. IMO, the less you mess with the beer the better.

I used to do it this way (without secondary), but I would like to have more clear beer transferred into secondary, so I was thinking about transferring to the secondary, then let cold crash couple of days, then bottle.

 

[kh54s10]

A secondary, IMO, will not give you a noticeable difference in clarity, unless by not doing a secondary you are bottling too soon. (before the beer clears)

 

[homer383]

A secondary, IMO, will not give you a noticeable difference in clarity, unless by not doing a secondary you are bottling too soon. (before the beer clears)

What is "too soon"? I bottle when the gravity stays at the same value for 3 days. It depends on the SG, but usually I bottle after 7-14 days (last time after 21 days as it was special beer with high SG). When I bottle, I can see via a bottling pipe some yeast or visible particles are going there. Nothing very extreme, but I was thinking about secondary + cold crash could help.
To be honest I am a little bit confused as there are articles and forums where the secondary is recommended/common practice.

 

[SGTSparty]

What is "too soon"? I bottle when the gravity stays at the same value for 3 days. It depends on the SG, but usually I bottle after 7-14 days (last time after 21 days as it was special beer with high SG). When I bottle, I can see via a bottling pipe some yeast or visible particles are going there. Nothing very extreme, but I was thinking about secondary + cold crash could help.
To be honest I am a little bit confused as there are articles and forums where the secondary is recommended/common practice.

Others can speak to this better than I but I think that for a long time the standard process was primary secondary bottle but in the last several years (I've only been brewing for like 3 years so this is some speculation and generalization) folks have done a lot of experimenting and a large sect of homebrewers have come down on the side that secondary typically isn't worth the risk of oxidation that can come with it unless 1) you're aging long term and a) you want it off the yeast/trub and b) you want something with less headspace than needed for primary, again to try and prevent oxidation 2) you dry hoping/racking onto adjuncts but there is again a lot of debate here that you can just toss all that stuff in primary so many feel this only holds true for if you're going to harvest the yeast from the cake in primary.

there's a lot of good threads/debates/arguments on this forum if you search for them (and some even when you don't and they just pop up in random threads because it can be such a big topic of interest) so try searching for them (or google it and include homebrewtalk.com as a search term), they make for interesting reading. Ultimately its up to you what you think will work better for you. Try both and see what you like?

 

[kh54s10]

What is "too soon"? I bottle when the gravity stays at the same value for 3 days. It depends on the SG, but usually I bottle after 7-14 days (last time after 21 days as it was special beer with high SG). When I bottle, I can see via a bottling pipe some yeast or visible particles are going there. Nothing very extreme, but I was thinking about secondary + cold crash could help.
To be honest I am a little bit confused as there are articles and forums where the secondary is recommended/common practice.

"Too soon" is before it clears up. This usually happens in a day or two of reaching final gravity.

Or it could be that things are getting stirred up if you get cloudy beer after primary. A cold crash will help.

Secondary used to be an almost absolute. Not as much anymore. I haven't done a secondary on an average beer for almost 5 years. It is becoming more and more common to skip the secondary.

 

[homer383]

OK. So I made my mind and based on the fact I did not do cold crashing before, I will keep the beer in primary and apply the cold crash. Then I will see - maybe I will be absolutely satisfied.

 

[fatherdan]

I love the fact that I can put my beer in a fermentation chamber and never touch it until kegging day.

 

[petrolSpice]

Make up a spray bottle of Starsan and distilled water. Spray the spigot inside and out with this before using it.

 

[kristiismean]

I would never ferment in a container that is not 100% sealed. the valve has to many nooks and cranny's in it, not to mention that i keep thinking, did you really clean everyone out? + if you want to do it right, you have a siphon on there, which would sit in the yeast cake, so you are still transferring it.

I used to be big on using a secondary. Now I only do it for beers I know I am going to bottle and need more time to clear, like a fruit beer, etc. but most of the time my 2 primary's are empty. (I sometimes have 5-6 primaries going)
Sometimes I just secondary to get a beer off the trub that's there and if I want it to be SUPER clear, but it's not really necessary.

 

[PADave]

One of my fermenters has a valve on it, and I've never had an issue. But the only time I use it is when transferring to the bottling bucket. I don't do samples during fermentation. I can see where taking samples via the valve could be asking for trouble.

Have you tried Whirlfloc or Irish moss?

 

[dwhite60]

In my previous brewing life I did a secondary on everything. Now I've been back at it for two years plus I don't bother. I've not seen any difference between beer I secondary'd (is that a word?) and bottling straight from the primary after two to three weeks.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[homer383]

By the way, how do you measure gravity when you do not use the valve for taking samples?

 

[PADave]

By the way, how do you measure gravity when you do not use the valve for taking samples?

I don't measure the FG until I'm bottling. 3 weeks in the primary and it will be done. Every time you take a sample, even with a valve you are risking introducing something into your beer. I like to keep things sealed up and let the yeast do it's job.

 

[homer383]

I don't measure the FG until I'm bottling. 3 weeks in the primary and it will be done. Every time you take a sample, even with a valve you are risking introducing something into your beer. I like to keep things sealed up and let the yeast do it's job.

But why should I keep the beer in primary for 3 weeks in case it is fermented completely in 5 days (let's say OG ~1.050 + danstar nottingham ale yeasts fermenting at 20C). I do not see any reason why would I keep it 3 weeks there. But this was just an example. I think checking the gravity of the brew is common and generally recommended (plus there are people who do not add priming sugar, so they need to know the gravity to decide when to bottle).

I made around 10 batches with using the valve for taking samples (3-4 samples per fermentation), then I used the same valve for bottling. I was also opening lid to check the krausen. And I had no infection. I somehow did not worry about it so much

 

[PADave]

But why should I keep the beer in primary for 3 weeks in case it is fermented completely in 5 days (let's say OG ~1.050 + danstar nottingham ale yeasts fermenting at 20C). I do not see any reason why would I keep it 3 weeks there.

Lets the yeast clean up. Even though fermentation may be complete the yeast are still working on eating their waste. Also, the beer has time to settle out, makes for a quite clear brew without needing to cold crash, which has it's drawbacks. For me that's what works. I brew and bottle on weekends. Two weeks would probably be fine for me to bottle, but I like to give it the extra week. That way when it's done, I haven't opened up the fermenter, except to dry hop. IMO, there is no need to rush things.

 

[ncbrewer]

But why should I keep the beer in primary for 3 weeks in case it is fermented completely in 5 days (let's say OG ~1.050 + danstar nottingham ale yeasts fermenting at 20C). I do not see any reason why would I keep it 3 weeks there. But this was just an example. I think checking the gravity of the brew is common and generally recommended (plus there are people who do not add priming sugar, so they need to know the gravity to decide when to bottle).

I made around 10 batches with using the valve for taking samples (3-4 samples per fermentation), then I used the same valve for bottling. I was also opening lid to check the krausen. And I had no infection. I somehow did not worry about it so much

It seems like brewing is all about trade-off's. And your optimum process depends on lots of things like whether shorter time in the fermenter is an advantage for you (for me it's not), how interested you are in the progress of fermentation, how you control temperature (chamber, swamp cooler, etc.), how paranoid you are about contamination and oxidation, same for bottle bombs, etc. It's a real touchy/feely hobby - very personal. That all makes it more fun for me.

 

[PADave]

It seems like brewing is all about trade-off's. And your optimum process depends on lots of things like whether shorter time in the fermenter is an advantage for you (for me it's not), how interested you are in the progress of fermentation, how you control temperature (chamber, swamp cooler, etc.), how paranoid you are about contamination and oxidation, same for bottle bombs, etc. It's a real touchy/feely hobby - very personal. That all makes it more fun for me.

You hit the nail on the head. Brewing is about figuring out a system that produces a product that you enjoy consuming. What works for me might not work for the next guy. I've reached my goal of being 100% home brew, not buying commercial anymore. And everyone I've had sample my brews have wanted more, so I must be doing something right.

 

[homer383]

Thank's much for the hints and recommendations.

One more thing - you mentioned the yeasts will clean up after themselves once the fermentation is done. Does the cleaning has to be done in fermentation vessel? If I bottle the beer, will not the "cleaning" take place even there?

EDIT: Now I realized I wanted to batch prime using dextrose. So I would mix it in the vessel and then bottle. But if I keep it in the primary fermentation vessel with the yeast cake on the bottom, then I can't mix the dextrose without picking up the sediment - so my beer would became full of yeasts and sediment. What is the best practice for this?
In the past I used those dextrose tablets, but the tablets have 1.5g, so I can not regulate the carbonation so precisely.