Bottling Kveik at High Fermentation Temperatures

[NobleNewt]

I brewed an amber ale recently and bottled about two weeks ago. In the past, I've used a variant of Voss Kveik (either the Omega or Lallemand version). This time, I was able to keep my fermentation temperature at 90 degrees for about a week until finished.

I allowed the temperature to naturally drop down to room temperature (about 72 F) and bottled. Here's where I'm confused: I know that the amount of CO2 in solution is dependent on temperature, but I'm thinking I should have used 90 degrees as my "current beer temperature" on the calculators instead of the actual temperature of the beer. It turned out great, but it's lacking the carbonation I would have expected.

For reference, I used BeerSmith's recommendation of 3.65 ounces of sucrose for my 4.5-gallon bottling volume. That corroborated with the other calculators I check with on the internet. (I usually check NB, MoreBeer, and Brewer's Friend and take a rough average of the four.) Some of those calculators specify the beer temperature "after" fermentation which just seems confusing and ambiguous but also makes sense in a convoluted way.

So, I'm asking where I may have gone wrong here. I assume I should start plugging in my 90-degree fermentation temp instead of the "current temp" of the beer. Thanks!

 

[MikeCo]

I always use the highest temperature the beer reached during fermentation or aging for bottle conditioning calculators, since it's used to determine the residual amount of CO2 in the beer. More CO2 will diffuse out of the beer at high temperatures, and I'm pretty sure cooling it back down will not result in more CO2 going in unless the fermenter is being pressured with CO2.

 

[NobleNewt]

I always use the highest temperature the beer reached during fermentation or aging for bottle conditioning calculators, since it's used to determine the residual amount of CO2 in the beer. More CO2 will diffuse out of the beer at high temperatures, and I'm pretty sure cooling it back down will not result in more CO2 going in unless the fermenter is being pressured with CO2.

Thanks! That was my next question.. At what rate does CO2 dissolve when temps are lowered?

Good to know. I’ll likely use the higher ferm temp in the future.

 

[NobleNewt]

I ended up taking the dozen flip top bottles that haven’t been refrigerated yet and added about .25-.30g of table sugar to them.. Quick flip, quick sugar, quick cap. Didn’t cause too much of a problem with foaming.. I moved quickly one bottle at a time.

I bet in a week or so they’ll have enough carbonation with the added sucrose.

 

[McKnuckle]

Did you mean to put the decimal here: 2.5 - 3.0 grams of sugar.? Or maybe you're adding a small amount of sugar to under-carbed bottles, and you typed it correctly.

 

[NobleNewt]

Did you mean to put the decimal here: 2.5 - 3.0 grams of sugar.? Or maybe you're adding a small amount of sugar to under-carbed bottles, and you typed it correctly.

No, my # was correct.. Basically going from 3.65 oz for the BATCH to 4 oz for the batch.. Math worked out to about .25 g per bottle.

Sorry for switching from imperial to metric.. Needed something more precise for individual bottles. It makes sense in my brain movies.

 

[Julian Høstan Urrea]

No, my # was correct.. Basically going from 3.65 oz for the BATCH to 4 oz for the batch.. Math worked out to about .25 g per bottle.

Sorry for switching from imperial to metric.. Needed something more precise for individual bottles. It makes sense in my brain movies.

Metric is the way to go haha

 

[NobleNewt]

Metric is the way to go haha

Certainly when it comes to tiny amounts of things!I loved using metric in high school chemistry, but unfortunately that’s as far as the metric system goes in the States.

 

[Vale71]

I seriously doubt that adding 0.3 g/l of CO2 (assuming 500ml bottles) will make much difference if your beer was so seriously undercarbed that it didn't even foam when sugar was addedd.
To answer your original question yes, you should always use the temperature the beer finished fermentation at unless temperature is raised after fermentation is done, in which case you should use the highest temperature the beer reached before bottling. The reason for that is that as temperature is raised CO2 will escape but if temperature is lowered at a point when no more CO2 is being produced the CO2 content will not increase further.

 

[NobleNewt]

I seriously doubt that adding 0.3 g/l of CO2 (assuming 500ml bottles) will make much difference if your beer was so seriously undercarbed that it didn't even foam when sugar was addedd.
To answer your original question yes, you should always use the temperature the beer finished fermentation at unless temperature is raised after fermentation is done, in which case you should use the highest temperature the beer reached before bottling. The reason for that is that as temperature is raised CO2 will escape but if temperature is lowered at a point when no more CO2 is being produced the CO2 content will not increase further.

No, it foamed like crazy.. There was definitely CO2 in solution, just not enough. I was just able to quickly flip the top, pour the sugar, and re-seal the tops before it foamed out everywhere.

I added .3 g of table sugar, not .3 g/l of CO2, unless those are the same measurements. Should have added somewhere in the neighborhood of an extra .25-or-so volumes of CO2 if my math is right. Either way, I should have a little more carbonation, but probably not enough to make much of a difference... Just thought I'd try something to see if it would work. I've had to do this before on flip-top bottles that leak, so it's not my first rodeo.

In the future, I'll use that higher fermentation temperature when calculating priming sugar. I'll try to keep my fermenter at 90F to help the Voss finish out, but I've never been able to do that until this last batch.

One other question.. If I were to leave the finished beer at, say, 72F, would the liquid re-absorb CO2 over the course of a week or so, or would it require pressure to do that?

 

[Vale71]

No, it foamed like crazy.. There was definitely CO2 in solution, just not enough. I was just able to quickly flip the top, pour the sugar, and re-seal the tops before it foamed out everywhere.

I added .3 g of table sugar, not .3 g/l of CO2, unless those are the same measurements. Should have added somewhere in the neighborhood of an extra .25-or-so volumes of CO2 if my math is right. Either way, I should have a little more carbonation, but probably not enough to make much of a difference... Just thought I'd try something to see if it would work. I've had to do this before on flip-top bottles that leak, so it's not my first rodeo.

In the future, I'll use that higher fermentation temperature when calculating priming sugar. I'll try to keep my fermenter at 90F to help the Voss finish out, but I've never been able to do that until this last batch.

One other question.. If I were to leave the finished beer at, say, 72F, would the liquid re-absorb CO2 over the course of a week or so, or would it require pressure to do that?

.3 g of table sugar in a 500ml bottle mean 0.6 g/l of table sugar which when fermented will give very close to 0.3 g/l of CO2.
Any CO2 that leaves the beer in a non-sealed container will be lost forever to the environment.

 

[NobleNewt]

.3 g of table sugar in a 500ml bottle mean 0.6 g/l of table sugar which when fermented will give very close to 0.3 g/l of CO2.
Any CO2 that leaves the beer in a non-sealed container will be lost forever to the environment.

I see.

When you're talking about CO2 leaving a non-sealed container, is that in reference to my question about re-absorbsion?