Bottling and yeast washing day questions

[pricelessbrewing]

Equipment:
4x pint jars w/ lids
1 pot
tongs
Primary full of fermented beer.
.5-1gal jar with air tight lid

Prep for washing:
Sterilize stuff. 20 mins~
remove jars,lids. keep jars full of water.
Let jars cool in fridge.

Weight priming sugar as per beersmith/priming calculator.
Boil priming sugar for 15 min.
Pour into bucket.
Rack beer onto primer.
Do I stir gently or no? I hear some yes, some no due to risk of oxidation?

Do I then deal with the siphoning and wash, or is it okay to leave it for an hour or so and finish bottling?

Yeast washing:
Pour the 4 jars into the bucket. Swirl. Let sit for 20 minutes. SO maybe I should siphon to bucket, then pour and swirl, then bottle?

Take large jar , and siphon the swirl'd yeast into it. Let settle for 20. Go back to bottling in the mean while.

Fill up the 4 small jars (from yeast washing illustrated) Does not directly state whether from large jar, or from bucket. I'll assume large jar?

Label. and let sit for up to a week before using for next batch?
If longer than a week I should make a starter?
Is a flask strictly necessary for starters? I have large jars, and 1L, and 2L glass bottles. Are these substitutable or is the flask so it's easier to sterilize due to their higher resistance to

 

[flars]

Lot of different opinions on this topic.

Equipment:
4x pint jars w/ lids
1 pot
tongs
Primary full of fermented beer.
.5-1gal jar with air tight lid

Prep for washing:
Sterilize stuff. 20 mins~
remove jars,lids. keep jars full of water.
Let jars cool in fridge.

Let the jars cool sitting out with lids loose. No rush at all.
Weight priming sugar as per beersmith/priming calculator.
Boil priming sugar for 15 min.
Pour into bucket.
Rack beer onto primer.
Do I stir gently or no? I hear some yes, some no due to risk of oxidation?


You can stir gently. Just don't swirl air into the beer. I have never stirred.

Do I then deal with the siphoning and wash, or is it okay to leave it for an hour or so and finish bottling?

Finish all the bottling.

Yeast washing:
Pour the 4 jars into the bucket. Swirl. Let sit for 20 minutes. SO maybe I should siphon to bucket, then pour and swirl, then bottle?

Just dump them in. You don't have to worry about aeration.

Take large jar , and siphon the swirl'd yeast into it. Let settle for 20. Go back to bottling in the mean while.

No siphon. Just pour.

Fill up the 4 small jars (from yeast washing illustrated) Does not directly state whether from large jar, or from bucket. I'll assume large jar?

You could just put large jar in the frig and finish another day.

Label. and let sit for up to a week before using for next batch?
If longer than a week I should make a starter?

Use MrMalty and YeastCalc to decide on starter or not.

Is a flask strictly necessary for starters? I have large jars, and 1L, and 2L glass bottles. Are these substitutable or is the flask so it's easier to sterilize due to their higher resistance to

You can't sterilize unless you use an autoclave. The best we can do is sanitize. This is what I use for starters https://www.homebrewtalk.com/photo/new-yeast-starter-container-61619.html

 

[rodwha]

Instead of washing yeast you could make a larger starter (1.5 Xs) and save a portion (the 1/3). It's easier and cleaner.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Instead of washing yeast you could make a larger starter (1.5 Xs) and save a portion (the 1/3). It's easier and cleaner.

So make a 3L starter, and save 1L to build back up to a 2L for the next go around?


Can do in the future, I'll probably build a stirplate next month out of an old pc fan I have lying around.
I have a vanilla porter sitting downstairs that'll be ready to bottle in a week and am looking at how I can reuse the yeast from it for a small batch (2-2.5gal) biab oatmeal stout.

As far as sterlize/sanitize. I read the other thread on the cold hard truth on yeast washing. Enough people do it that it's a viable method for now (for me at least), and I understand it is not truly sterilized nor an optimal technique.

 

[Calder]

Wssh if you want. Been there, done that; it's a pain.

What I do:

- sanitize 4 pint jars in the same sanitizer I do the bottles ( no boiling)

- rack beer to bottling bucket and cover.

-swirl up the slurry.

-pour slurry into jars, filling to about half inch from top. There may not be enough for 4 jars. That is ok.

- place lid on jars and store in fridge. Use 1 jar for a beer, use within a month, no starter needed.

Ignore Mr Malty, it is way too conservative with yeast viability. At 2 months it says 10% viable, which is way too low. However at 12 months it still says 10% viable, which is probably right.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

So you don't let it settle out and decant into smaller containers? Doesn't that mean your slurry contains a lot of dead yeast and trub which is supposed to be bad for it?

 

[rodwha]

Yes. But I don't know how important it is to get rid of it all. I've gone with what the rest say, and that is to wash it. But I found another here who posted about making a larger starter and how much easier that was. Made sense to me.

Not to mention there has to be a much lesser chance of any mutation over time, and no worries about growing something from a previous batch that was just getting going.

I made 1 qt starters with 4 oz of DME, and would add another pint and 2 oz for the yeast to save. It just seems too simple...

 

[tdbc2011]

I now make a 2L starter and then pour 12 oz into a boiled jar on brew day. When it settles there is clean yeast in the bottom. Then I make a 2L starter the next time and repeat.
I have washed yeast by adding some cold but boiled water to the yeast cake and filled as many 12 oz jars as I need. I have used washed yeast that is 9 or 10 months old with no problem.
The yeast that I currently use is from washed yeast that has been washed in one way or the other for several generations. I really like the method of pouring off one 12 oz jar from each starter because it is easy.
I am now using Irish Ale, London Ale and Pacman yeast that were originally purchased two years ago.

 

[CA_Mouse]

I make a double starter. If I need a 1 liter, I make a 2 liter and decant half into a sanitized 1 liter flask and cold crash it. Next brew day prep I will decant the spent starter from the flask and pour the yeast into another 2 liter starter and repeat the process. Currently I am on batch 7 of the same Belgian Ale strain. I haven't bought a vial in about 4 months other than Belgian Sour Mix and I've brewed every weekend since October

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I now make a 2L starter and then pour 12 oz into a boiled jar on brew day. When it settles there is clean yeast in the bottom. Then I make a 2L starter the next time and repeat.
I have washed yeast by adding some cold but boiled water to the yeast cake and filled as many 12 oz jars as I need. I have used washed yeast that is 9 or 10 months old with no problem.
The yeast that I currently use is from washed yeast that has been washed in one way or the other for several generations. I really like the method of pouring off one 12 oz jar from each starter because it is easy.
.

Okay so just to be clear you make a 2L start prior to brewday, then when brew day comes you decant 12 oz of it into a boiled jar and leave to settle out? Then leave the remaining (2lL-12oz)starter to replicate and get back to 2l?
or do you pitch the (2lL-12oz) and use the 12oz to make a new starter later?
At what point do I need to worry about nutrients and whatnot?

I make a double starter. If I need a 1 liter, I make a 2 liter and decant half into a sanitized 1 liter flask and cold crash it. Next brew day prep I will decant the spent starter from the flask and pour the yeast into another 2 liter starter and repeat the process. Currently I am on batch 7 of the same Belgian Ale strain. I haven't bought a vial in about 4 months other than Belgian Sour Mix and I've brewed every weekend since October

so start with 2L starter. Decant half to pitch, and keep the remaining 1L starter to fill back up to a 2L for next time and start over?
Would you recommend starting with a fresh vial, or can I make a good starter from a washed yeast sample? This seems very simple and viable to me since the top half would contain the least amount of trub and particulates from the starter correct?

 

[CA_Mouse]

so start with 2L starter. Decant half to pitch, and keep the remaining 1L starter to fill back up to a 2L for next time and start over?
Would you recommend starting with a fresh vial, or can I make a good starter from a washed yeast sample? This seems very simple and viable to me since the top half would contain the least amount of trub and particulates from the starter correct?

If you aren't positive that you have a very clean sample of yeast from rinsing, I would start with your next vial. You should be able to get 6 to 8 starters with that one vial by propagating the yeast this way. There is, also, less chance of propagating a mutation or infection. It, also, relives you of having to spend the time rinsing your yeast, since you are going to make a starter any way, you are only spending a little more on DME and a bit of nutrient (I advocate using Yeast Nutrient for all starters).

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Was planning on washing this sample and using it twice in the next two weeks. One more for a biab 2.5 gallon oatmeal chocolate coffee stout, and a brown ale/brown porter. Is there still cause to consider mutation from one reuse?
I'll definitely use your method going forward but would prefer not to buy a new vial if I can get away with it...

 

[rodwha]

It's unlikely any major mutation would occur.

I tossed all of my liquid yeast strains as I lost track of how many times I had reused the yeast (mine started from washed yeasts washed many times). I had a mutation that seemed to give me a higher attenuation than normal, which to me was a good thing. But I tossed it all nonetheless.

 

[CA_Mouse]

Was planning on washing this sample and using it twice in the next two weeks. One more for a biab 2.5 gallon oatmeal chocolate coffee stout, and a brown ale/brown porter. Is there still cause to consider mutation from one reuse?
I'll definitely use your method going forward but would prefer not to buy a new vial if I can get away with it...

I've not run into a mutation on my yeasts before. I do occasionally rinse my yeast cake, so don't take it that I *only* propagate new vials. I had a vial of WLP004 that was extremely fresh (White Labs is less than 90 miles from me ). It was such a good yeast for a Sweet Stout, that I saved it and have used the slurry (150ml per jar) in a 1 liter starter pitched into a 5/6 gallon new batch. Those jars of slurry would be considered generation 2 of the yeast. Since I only brew that Stout 4 times a year, I won't save the slurry from gen 2 batches (I haven't tried saving a slurry for longer than a month), so these will be pushing viability to the highest level.

 

[CA_Mouse]

It's unlikely any major mutation would occur.

I tossed all of my liquid yeast strains as I lost track of how many times I had reused the yeast (mine started from washed yeasts washed many times). I had a mutation that seemed to give me a higher attenuation than normal, which to me was a good thing. But I tossed it all nonetheless.

This is was would be called a 'House Yeast'. It is the same as the large craft breweries do. If you listen to JZ at Heretic, it would cost him $8K a pitch for fresh yeast, so they just dump the yeast into the next batch of beer and will do that for 6 or so batches before they do another new pitch of the yeast. If it really costs him $8k and he gets 5 additional batches from that one pitch, he is saving $40K for that one brand of his beer. Figuring that he has 6 brands (? I'm guessing), if he does this with each one, he is saving $240K on his yeast costs... That would be a big savings for any brewery.

Once I get a conical for my home brewery, I will probably start trying to develop my own house yeast in the same way.