Bottled Pale Ale over 3 months old

[user33]

I am a complete noob and I am brewing my very first batch of pale ale next week, using a 5 gallon LME extract kit.

My question is: How bad will bottled pale ale become after 3 months?

I won't be able to consume them within 2-3 months, since I am simultaneously brewing and drinking other homebrew alcohols.

I had considered cutting the batch size in half, but same problem exists: the LME and hops will probably gone bad after 3 months.

Any advice or suggestions?

Thanks a lot and happy 2016!

 

[dkeller12]

Should be fine. I have had some go for over a year. At 3 months you may start to notice a slight fade in the hop flavor but nothing so bad you wouldn't want to drink it. At a year I have noticed a significant change in flavor. The hops fade and I have noticed a change in the malt character as well but that is in a malty beer.

 

[JimRausch]

I had a bottle of my RyeCentennial Pale Ale yesterday that I bottled back in June 2015. Beautifully clear, perfectly carbonated with a thick white head, good flavor. Maybe a slight loss of hop flavor over what it was in July, but I believe that if properly stored, homebrew retains it's flavor much longer than commercial beers.

 

[Subdivisions]

but I believe that if properly stored, homebrew retains it's flavor much longer than commercial beers.

I can attest to this, I've had some IPAs recently from the local beer distributor that were about 3 months from bottling day and didn't taste anything like what I was used to from them. I've had my own IPA get better over this period of time.

Commercial brews are obviously short cutting the aging time to get the best possible beer in the shortest period of time. The side effect is that they don't last as long in the wild.

 

[user33]

Thanks for the advice. Commercial beers are loaded with chemicals to stabilize the beer "consistency" in taste, and to prolong the shelf life, that was one of the reason I am going through all the troubles to brew my own. Glad to know that the home brew will not go bad after three months if stored properly.

I don't have a spare fridge to store 50 bottles of beer, and don't have a basement, but I live on the top floor of a 5 story apartment building and have a metal storage shed on the rooftop terrace, would it be OK to keep the bottles outdoors in a storage shed during the winter months in North East (NY)? the temperature should be below 55 degrees for the next few months outdoors, but the thing I am concerned is the temperature fluctuation. Any advice will be appreciated.

 

[Jwin]

Thanks for the advice. Commercial beers are loaded with chemicals to stabilize the beer "consistency" in taste, and to prolong the shelf life, that was one of the reason I am going through all the troubles to brew my own. Glad to know that the home brew will not go bad after three months if stored properly.

I don't have a spare fridge to store 50 bottles of beer, and don't have a basement, but I live on the top floor of a 5 story apartment building and have a metal storage shed on the rooftop terrace, would it be OK to keep the bottles outdoors in a storage shed during the winter months in North East (NY)? the temperature should be below 55 degrees for the next few months outdoors, but the thing I am concerned is the temperature fluctuation. Any advice will be appreciated.

I would be concerned and freezing and multiple freeze thaw cycles.

 

[user33]

I would be concerned and freezing and multiple freeze thaw cycles.

Thanks a lot for your advice, that makes a lot of sense. I had thought about the temperature fluctuation problem, but was thinking that may be if I wrap my bottles with thick-blanket/comforter then put them in a big cardboard box, then inside the un-insulated metal shed on the terrace, it might not even freeze since we don't really have that many cold days (if any) during the winters in recent years/decades. If I know there will be extreme cold weather, I will move the box indoor to prevent freezing the beers, then move them out once the extreme weather is gone. We might not have such weather this year here, the winter has been so unusually mild this year, so far no snow and the temperature had been in 50s to 60s all winter, crazy.

On a different note, I had just discovered a new solution: to brew using all grain BIAB recipe! this will yield 3 gallons size batch, which is perfect for me (1 gallon recipe is not practical, so much efforts for so little beer). I am totally new to home brewing, everyday I spend a little time on Internet reading and learning about home brewing, it's incredible that there are so much knowledge out there in home brewing forums, blogs, home brewing sites, and youtube!

Since I have already purchased the 5 gallon extract kit, my very first home brew will be the 5 gallon batch of extract recipe brown ale (AIH recipe kit), after that, I will just go with the 3 gallon BIAB AG recipes, from watching the Norternbrewer's youtube video, the BIAB method is just as simple as the extract method, and I don't need to buy any additional piece of equipment, I have the extract brewing kit and that is all I need to brew the BIAB AG method from there on.

 

[theheroguy]

Thanks for the advice. Commercial beers are loaded with chemicals to stabilize the beer "consistency" in

That is absolutely not true. Most commercial beers are filtered and some are pasteurize. Both of those increases stability in some ways. Homebrew can have increased stability in other ways which relate to being bottled with live yeast.

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks for the advice. Commercial beers are loaded with chemicals to stabilize the beer "consistency" in taste, and to prolong the shelf life, that was one of the reason I am going through all the troubles to brew my own. Glad to know that the home brew will not go bad after three months if stored properly.

I don't have a spare fridge to store 50 bottles of beer, and don't have a basement, but I live on the top floor of a 5 story apartment building and have a metal storage shed on the rooftop terrace, would it be OK to keep the bottles outdoors in a storage shed during the winter months in North East (NY)? the temperature should be below 55 degrees for the next few months outdoors, but the thing I am concerned is the temperature fluctuation. Any advice will be appreciated.

I don't have refrigerator space for the beer I brew either and my basement is at 72 degrees. I have stored some beers for over a year there and they stay just fine. In fact, some of the beers improve with aging at that temperature. I only bring up a few bottles at a time to chill for drinking and try to have them in the refrigerator for at least 24 hours but those that only got 6 hours of refrigeration were good too.

 

[user33]

That is absolutely not true.

So you are an industry insider that possess the "absolute" true knowledge and facts that commercial beers don't use chemicals as additives for various reasons, including but not limited to enhancing the stability of commercial beers?

I admit I am a noob and I can't verify what chemicals commercial beer companies put in their beers, but there are more than enough Internet articles from credible authors, critics, consumer advocates, brewing industry insiders, and forums (forums are not the most credible source, I know), that give me reasonable doubts about your "absolutely not true" statement.

We are free to believe in our own believes, thanks for your comments.

 

[user33]

I don't have refrigerator space for the beer I brew either and my basement is at 72 degrees. I have stored some beers for over a year there and they stay just fine. In fact, some of the beers improve with aging at that temperature.

Thank you very much for the information. My apartment temperature is set at 70 degrees F, and my hallway is unheated which has temperature fluctuations about 60 to 65 degrees F. In your opinion, is it better to store bottles inside the apartment that has higher temperature (70 F) but stable, or the lower temperature hallway that has slight temperature fluctuations (depending on the external weather temperature, it typically stayed around 60 to 65 degrees F).

What is the desired temperature for storing beers? 40 degrees F?

 

[Zepth]

Don't worry about the LME or hops giving up on you in that short a time. I've got some bags of hops that were opened 6 months ago and are still good. Keep them in the freezer. As far as the LME goes, it's going to have the "honey is just too sweet to spoil" going for it IMO. Bottle storage? Toss them into a closet or corner. They'll be fine at room temperature for quite a long time. I've got some bottles kicking around that are over a year old.

As far as the chemicals and additives they'd need to be listed on the ingredient list for legal reasons. When the ingredient list is "Water, Barley, (Wheat), Hops, Yeast." you can be assured that no chemicals or stabilizers are in there.

 

[user33]

Don't worry about the LME or hops giving up on you in that short a time. I've got some bags of hops that were opened 6 months ago and are still good. Keep them in the freezer. As far as the LME goes, it's going to have the "honey is just too sweet to spoil" going for it IMO. Bottle storage? Toss them into a closet or corner. They'll be fine at room temperature for quite a long time. I've got some bottles kicking around that are over a year old.

As far as the chemicals and additives they'd need to be listed on the ingredient list for legal reasons. When the ingredient list is "Water, Barley, (Wheat), Hops, Yeast." you can be assured that no chemicals or stabilizers are in there.

Thanks a lot for your advice.

I am just going to quote this post from HBT:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=206323&postcount=1

In Lee Janson's book, Brew Chem 101, he states that "commercial brewers are allowed to add, in any combination, over seventy-five chemicals, dyes, and additives to beer without informing the consumer." Is anyone privilaged to know what some of those additives are? They are obviously not (initially) dangerous additives or the FDA wouldn't let the beer companies put them in, right?

Also, why are commercial brewers allowed to keep their ingredients secret from their consumers? Is it a matter of brand and trademark protection?

 

[user33]

The Shocking Ingredients In Beer

http://foodbabe.com/2013/07/17/the-shocking-ingredients-in-beer/

First of all, I was able to obtain a baseline list of “legal” additives allowed in beer from the book “Chemicals Additives in Beer” by the Center of Science and Public Interest. This list allowed me to ask specific questions about each beer I investigated. For example – beer sold here in America can contain several of the following ingredients:

Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) – alcohol is already addictive with some people, but with MSG?! Holy smokes.

Propylene Glycol (an ingredient found in anti-freeze)

Calcium Disodium EDTA (made from formaldehyde, sodium cayanide, and Ethylenediamine)

Many different types of sulfites and anti-microbial preservatives (linked to allergies and asthma)

Natural Flavors (can come from anything natural including a beavers anal gland)

High Fructose Corn Syrup

GMO Sugars – Dextrose, Corn Syrup

Caramel Coloring (Class III or IV made from ammonia and classified as a carcinogen)

FD&C Blue 1 (Made from petroleum, linked to allergies, asthma and hyperactivity)

FD&C Red 40 (Made from petroleum, linked to allergies, asthma and hyperactivity)

FD&C Yellow 5 (Made from petroleum, linked to allergies, asthma and hyperactivity)

Insect-Based Dyes: carmine derived from cochineal insects to color their beer.

Animal Based Clarifiers: Findings include isinglass (dried fish bladder), gelatin (from skin, connective tissue, and bones), and casein (found in milk)

Foam Control: Used for head retention; (glyceryl monostearate and pepsin are both potentially derived from animals)

BPA (Bisphenol A is a component in many can liners and it may leach into the beer. BPA can mimic the female hormone estrogen and may affect sperm count, and other organ functions.)

Carrageenan (linked to inflammation in digestive system, IBS and considered a carcinogen in some circumstances)

During my investigation, I couldn’t get a single mainstream beer company to share the full list of ingredients contained in their beer. But I did get some of them to fess up to the use of these ingredients in writing so I’m going to share this information with you now.

Carcinogenic Caramel Coloring

Newcastle, a UK brand, confessed to using what I would consider one of the most controversial food additives. Toasted barley is usually what gives beer its golden or deep brown color, however in this case, Newcastle beer is also colored artificially with caramel color. This caramel coloring is manufactured by heating ammonia and sulfites under high pressure, which creating carcinogenic compounds. If beer companies were required by law to list the ingredients, Newcastle would likely have to have a cancer warning label under California law because it is a carcinogen proven to cause liver tumors, lung tumors, and thyroid tumors in rats and mice.

Genetically Modified Organisms (GMOs)

Many of the beers I questioned contained one or more possible GMO ingredients.

High Fructose Corn Syrup (Guinness – unable to provide an affidavit for non-GMO proof)

Corn syrup (Miller Light, Coors, Corona, Fosters, Pabst Blue Ribbon, Red Stripe)

Dextrose (Budweiser, Bud Light, Busch Light, Michelob Ultra)

Corn (Red Stripe, Miller Coors Brand, Anheuser-Busch Brands)

Most beers brewed commercially are made with more GMO corn than barley. Many of the companies I contacted dodged the GMO question – however Miller Coors had a very forthcoming and honest response. They stated “Corn syrup gives beer a milder and lighter-bodied flavor” and “Corn syrups may be derived from a mixture of corn (conventional and biotech.)”, admitting their use of GMOs.

 

[thunderwagn]

Some will use any tactics they can to try and scare... I think it's far more likely the alcohol you consume in any beer is more damaging than anything on that list lol.
Moderation.


That said, use brewing software like beersmith or brewersfriend and half the recipes you find or adjust the batch size to your liking. Very simple to use and do.

 

[Zepth]

Food Additives in the List of Ingredients

As indicated in the manner of declaring ingredients, food additives must be declared by an acceptable common name in the list of ingredients for prepackaged product. However as per B.01.008(4)(d) of the FDR, they may be listed at the end of the list of ingredients in any order.

Source

Ah the internet and all it's conflicting information. Admitted this is Canadian law, it's the only baseline I knew of at the time of the original post. I find it difficult to believe that other first world nations would have vast differences on food packaging requirements.

 

[user33]

Source

Ah the internet and all it's conflicting information. Admitted this is Canadian law, it's the only baseline I knew of at the time of the original post. I find it difficult to believe that other first world nations would have vast differences on food packaging requirements.

"commercial brewers are allowed to add, in any combination, over seventy-five chemicals, dyes, and additives to beer without informing the consumer." That is US law.

 

[Kee]

Anyone interested in the Food Babe's piece about beer may want to read these responses:

http://www.maureenogle.com/maureen-ogle/2013/08/18/whats-in-your-beer-or-the-dangers-of-dumbassery

 

[theheroguy]

If you think foodbabe who is credible source then I'm done talking to you. She is a naturopath fraud.

 

[thunderwagn]

The Shocking Ingredients In Beer

http://foodbabe.com/2013/07/17/the-shocking-ingredients-in-beer/

So foodbabe is your credible source on fda labeling? Happy brewing :fro:

 

[user33]

So foodbabe is your credible source on fda labeling? Happy brewing :fro:

No, the credible source is "Center for Science in the Public Interest" (CSPI)

 

[user33]

Don't understand why home brewers would want to defend the commercial industry that had been know to use additives and chemicals in food and beer. CSPI had been pounding on commercial beer additive issues for over 30 years, where have all you been?

May be we should just close this thread, it has way off the topic.

 

[aprichman]

"commercial brewers are allowed to add, in any combination, over seventy-five chemicals, dyes, and additives to beer without informing the consumer." That is US law.

That's not United States law, that's some ignorant blogger "Food Babe" who has no idea she's talking about.

Here is a document from the FDA that guides beer manufacturers on labeling practices:

http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceReg...ryInformation/LabelingNutrition/ucm166239.htm

In the document they clearly state that beer is subject to 21 CFR 101.22 which is then discussed in greater detail.

in the statement of ingredients: the common or usual name of each ingredient if the product is made from two or more ingredients, in descending order of predominance by weight (e.g., Ingredients: sorghum, water, rice, yeast, molasses, FD&C Yellow No. 5) (21 CFR 101.4). This includes, but is not limited to, the following ingredients: (a) name of any chemical preservatives present and a description of the function of the preservative (e.g., Ingredients: sorghum, water, rice, yeast, molasses, ascorbic acid to promote color retention), as specified in 21 CFR 101.22(j); (b) a declaration of any added coloring, as specified in 21 CFR 101.22(k), and (c) a declaration of added flavor, such as any spices, natural flavors, or artificial flavors, as specified in 21 CFR 101.22(h)...

 

[thunderwagn]

She lists 'beaver anal glands' like they're a bad thing.

 

[Jwin]

She lists 'beaver anal glands' like they're a bad thing.

Right? My BAG ESB is awesome

 

[user33]

That's not United States law, that's some ignorant blogger "Food Babe" who has no idea she's talking about.

Food Babe has nothing to do with that quote, it was from Lee Janson's book, Brew Chem 101

 

[PeteNMA]

"commercial brewers are allowed to add, in any combination, over seventy-five chemicals, dyes, and additives to beer without informing the consumer." That is US law.

That is not US law it's total bollocks

 

[CA_Mouse]

I won't even quote the link to "foodbabe" because she is an absolute fraud and a huge fear monger. If you want to believe her as a creditable source, bully for you, but don't spout her nonsense as gospel to anyone here.

 

[theheroguy]

You didn't take a single chemical out of that list provided and explain how it is a "stabilizer" you can't demonstrate how any of them are dangerous all you can do is link flimsy correlational studies. Consumer advocacy and other non profit groups are pretty notorious for spreading misinformation no matter how noble their intentions are. You literally quoted a foodbabe article that says beer contains more gmo corn than barley (not like gmo corn is bad in and of itself). You clearly don't understand how these chemicals work and are just fear mongering.

 

[user33]

LOL, people here are not a least bit in modesty when using the term "absolute".

I am sorry for bring up the wrong subject, let's enjoy brewing and drinking beer, not disagreeing.

 

[aprichman]

LOL, people here are not a least bit in modesty when using the term "absolute".

I am sorry for bring up the wrong subject, let's enjoy brewing and drinking beer, not disagreeing.

It's not that you're bringing up the wrong subject, it's just that people are quick to correctly point out that what you are saying is untrue. You absolutely have to label beer properly according to 21 CFR 101.22 guidelines if you are selling it in the US.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

While I have no intention in getting in the middle of this discussion, the owner of my LHBS said in one discussion I had with her that people make home brew for a variety of reasons, one of them is you know what is in your beer.

You know, she doesn't even sell beaver gland extract!

 

[akthor]

Are you bottling and carbing with sugar? If so you shouldn't touch for a couple months anyways so no worries.

 

[thunderwagn]

You know, she doesn't even sell beaver gland extract!

pfft! You need to find a new lhbs

 

[RM-MN]

Thank you very much for the information. My apartment temperature is set at 70 degrees F, and my hallway is unheated which has temperature fluctuations about 60 to 65 degrees F. In your opinion, is it better to store bottles inside the apartment that has higher temperature (70 F) but stable, or the lower temperature hallway that has slight temperature fluctuations (depending on the external weather temperature, it typically stayed around 60 to 65 degrees F).

What is the desired temperature for storing beers? 40 degrees F?

I don't think your beer will care if it is stored at 70 degrees or in an environment that fluctuates between 60 and 65 degrees once it is bottled. I'd avoid high temperatures and light that has any amount of UV because even the brown bottles may let enough through that over a long time period may cause your beer to skunk and I'd never put it in somewhere that it could potentially freeze because that would cause the bottles to burst.

 

[user33]

people make home brew for a variety of reasons, one of them is you know what is in your beer.

It is my ONLY reason to brew my own alcohol. Those who chose to believe in what our government and big business told them what is what, I have nothing to say to them.

 

[PeteNMA]

You just keep digging don't you. I'm just waiting for your post in for sale for tin foil hats

 

[user33]

Are you bottling and carbing with sugar? If so you shouldn't touch for a couple months anyways so no worries.

I am following the instructions from the recipe kit from AIH, which does not call for adding addition sugar when bottling, it does call for sugar in the brewing ingredients.

 

[user33]

You just keep digging don't you. I'm just waiting for your post in for sale for tin foil hats

I might honor your wish

 

[Gameface]

user23, don't take any criticism of foodbabe personally. When she first published that there was a long discussion here (maybe I'll try to find it) and it has been well established that most of what she said was false. You can believe her if you want, but understand her name is not very well respected around here because of the many things we know for certain she claims as fact that are simply not true.

While some commercial breweries might use some ingredients, it is not standard at all for commercial (mega or micro) breweries to add this chemical or that. Beer is inherently stable. It is slightly acidic and contains alcohol. That's a pretty rock solid recipe for stability. No reason for brewers to spend money and add complication so that they can pump their beers full of beaver anal glands and anti-freeze.

But yeah, I like brewing my own in part because I know what's in it as well. Nothing wrong with that.

Oh, and welcome to HBT!