Bottle Conditioning Question - What to do?

[ebursey]

Hi All, I'm a relatively new homebrewer and I've got a question about a recent brew that's not carbonating.

I brewed a brown ale on 21NOV. I pitched a full packet of S-04 into 2.5 gallons of wort. The OG was 1.059. On 24NOV, the gravity was 1.015. The fermentation occurred in a closet where the ambient temperature was around 66F. I bottled on 09DEC at the same gravity as before using carbonation tablets. I put the bottles away in the same closet but by that point the temperature was around 64F. I tasted on 25DEC (16 days post-bottling) and the beer was almost completely flat. I decided to be patient and waited until today, 08JAN (just shy of one month) to taste again but the beer is still almost completely flat. I know that the 16 day taste was early but I've had good luck in the past (when it was warmer, of course). After a month though, I'm starting to get a little concerned. I'm also concerned because I've got a second batch that was bottled on 28DEC and I don't want it to suffer the same fate as the first batch. I tried to not worry and have a homebrew, but the homebrew I had was flat, so that wasn't as helpful as it could have been.

I've tried to do my homework on the subject and my first thought is that the temperature is too low for these poor tired yeast to get the job done. I know that I the recommended conditioning temperature is around 70F and that I'm considerably below that, but it's hard to find a place in the house that will be warm enough . At this time of year, the house is around 67-ish during the day and cooler at night.

At this point, is it still worthwhile to try to warm the beer a bit? Or rather, how likely is that to fix the situation? I can try to rig up a box, heating pad, and thermostat to target ~70F. Is it too late for that or should I just be patient and wait for my beer? I could open the bottles, spike in a bit more yeast, and then raise the temperature. Would that be helpful or would it be more likely to cause harm? There's been just the slightest bit of carbonation so I wouldn't think that I should add more sugar. Is that right?

Thanks for your help.

 

[AirLock Sniffer]

I hunted around for a warmer location for bottle conditioning as well. Some advice in baking circles (for proofing dough) sometimes suggest above the refrigerator. In my situation it didn't seem anything special, hovering around 65°. What I did find was under the kitchen sink maintains 75° to 80° when everywhere else is quite a bit cooler. There's of course some water pipes there, and a heating register. With care, a full 5 gallon batch will fit. Maybe this will work for you.

Don't add more priming sugar.

 

[ebursey]

I hunted around for a warmer location for bottle conditioning as well. Some advice in baking circles (for proofing dough) sometimes suggest above the refrigerator. In my situation it didn't seem anything special, hovering around 65°. What I did find was under the kitchen sink maintains 75° to 80° when everywhere else is quite a bit cooler. There's of course some water pipes there, and a heating register. With care, a full 5 gallon batch will fit. Maybe this will work for you.

Don't add more priming sugar.

Thank you, that's brilliant! I stuck a thermometer above the fridge and it's about 68F up there. Not quite what I'd like but much, much closer to where it should be. The beer is now stashed on top of the fridge. I kind of like being able to see it up there. I'll grab a bottle for another taste in a few weeks. Or, if the temperature seems to fluctuate too much, I'll ponder other creative places in the house.

 

[Immocles]

My first plan of action would be to try and find a spot to warm the bottles up a bit. 64F *should* carb up reasonably well, but I personally have had longer carbonation times with the fizz drops vs corn/table sugar. I wouldn't add more yeast. I'd try to keep em as warm as you can for a week and see if that helps.

FWIW, I do all of my brewing/conditioning/storage in a Minnesota basement. Beers carb up quick in the summers, but in the winter months (50-55F), it takes an extra week or two for me to find solid results. But they do carbonate, even at that temperature.

 

[toadie]

Something seems a bit off to me but when i need something warmed up in my house I put things on top of a tile on my furnace. It couldn't hurt to put a couple bottles in a warmer spot to see if it makes a difference. Another idea would be to always include a plastic bottle in your collection of bottles to physically feel when carbing is happening.

 

[Camelot Legends]

I have no experience with fizz tabs but warmer temperatures and shaking the bottles every day to keep yeast in suspension has always worked for me when I have a beer that is struggling to carbonate.

 

[ebursey]

Something seems a bit off to me but when i need something warmed up in my house I put things on top of a tile on my furnace. It couldn't hurt to put a couple bottles in a warmer spot to see if it makes a difference. Another idea would be to always include a plastic bottle in your collection of bottles to physically feel when carbing is happening.

Thanks for your input. When you say to include a plastic bottle, are you suggesting something like a disposable water bottle that I would squeeze to assess carbonation?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

To determine if bottled beer is carbonated, hold the bottle up to a light source. Carbonated beer is clearer than un-carbonated beer (I mention so you don't have to waste opening bottles to sample).

 

[toadie]

Thanks for your input. When you say to include a plastic bottle, are you suggesting something like a disposable water bottle that I would squeeze to assess carbonation?

Yup. I do a number of water, gingerale bottles etc which also later seems to help my kayaking. You should buy some of the white screw on caps with new gaskets at the hbs tho.

 

[balrog]

how tight are the caps on those bottles, can you twist them by hand, for instance? Perhaps carbonation is happening but escaping.

 

[MikeCo]

Are you sure you used enough priming sugar? Did you use a priming sugar calculator and weigh the sugar?

 

[bu_gee]

Did you record your FG? If your yeast haven't consumed the sugar you added, your gravity should be 2-3 points higher.

If it is the same as your FG, then either the sugar didn't mix in properly (which is something I struggled with) or it did get fermented out but the CO2 escaped.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Also, check the caps. Are the caps bottling caps? I ask as a brewing friends, believing they "found" a great deal on caps discovered all their bottled beer was flat. Turned out their "great deal" on bottle caps was for artistic bottle caps (in other words, no cap liner). D'oh!

 

[dwhite60]

Do not shake the bottles. You'll oxidize your beer. Give them a quick twist holding on to the top of the bottle.

Probably just needs a little more heat, and time.

 

[TwistedGray]

Temperature - I don't think it's just temperature related because I carbonate in a uninsulated garage during winter months (coastal California, lows hit 30s and highs in the 50s-60s). The garage does not reach anywhere near mid-60s during the winter, my beer still carbonates fine, and it surely doesn't take a month. There's more going on...

Carbonation method - As someone else noted, perhaps the tablets/drops is adding to your issue? You could try individually carbonating bottles (click me - link) which I find to work well and is the cheapest method (if I'm not mistaken).

From the sounds of it, it might be a combination of tablets/drops and colder fermentation temperatures.

Anecdotally speaking, I will sometimes move freshly bottled beer to my in-home office. Our house stays at about 65F throughout the winter months (oftentimes colder if I can adjust the slider without the boss seeing). When I move the bottles indoors for better temperature control, it doesn't have a major impact on overall carbonation times.

Plastic bottle - The point here is that you would squeeze the plastic bottle (any bottle works fine) and you can tell from the pressure inside the bottle when it's carbonated. Take note of how easy it is to squeeze on the first day, and as the days progress (wait a week) the bottle will be firmer and harder to squeeze. That's a simple way to tell when your bottles are carbonated (assuming they are in the same place as your plastic bottle). As someone noted, you can get new plastic caps with gaskets at your brew store or online.

 

[TwistedGray]

how tight are the caps on those bottles, can you twist them by hand, for instance? Perhaps carbonation is happening but escaping.

OP is using bottles

Are you sure you used enough priming sugar? Did you use a priming sugar calculator and weigh the sugar?

OP is not using "sugar" (read his post)

Did you record your FG? If your yeast haven't consumed the sugar you added, your gravity should be 2-3 points higher.

If it is the same as your FG, then either the sugar didn't mix in properly (which is something I struggled with) or it did get fermented out but the CO2 escaped.

OP is not using "sugar" (read his post)

 

[balrog]

OP is using bottles

Yes. And poorly capped bottles can leak. And a sign of a poorly capped bottle is whether one can twist or turn the bottle cap on the bottle. Not to mention whether "twist off" bottles might be used which induce an even more difficult time making caps tight when using standard wing type bottle cappers. And if by "bottles" he meant flip tops, then the gaskets can harden and compress and become less effective holding in pressure, although trying to twist those is not really a great sign of a good seal.

 

[bu_gee]

OP is not using "sugar" (read his post)

He said carbonation tablets without being any more specific than that. The ones that I am used to are made of dextrose, which is a sugar.

If he was using a non-sugar type, why wait the weeks to see if they've carbed up?

 

[Gusso]

I just used a cheap, !little electric heater to warm up my closet to carb some bottles. I haven't bottled in years but I made a batch for my niece's 21st birthday. Took that closet up from 66 to a consistent74. The beer carbed nicely in about 2 weeks.

 

[ebursey]

how tight are the caps on those bottles, can you twist them by hand, for instance? Perhaps carbonation is happening but escaping.

Thank you. I think they're on tight but I agree that this could explain what I'm observing. I'll have a closer look.

 

[ebursey]

Did you record your FG? If your yeast haven't consumed the sugar you added, your gravity should be 2-3 points higher.

If it is the same as your FG, then either the sugar didn't mix in properly (which is something I struggled with) or it did get fermented out but the CO2 escaped.

Thank you, that's a great suggestion. I didn't think to check the gravity of the flat beer out of the bottle. I'll definitely do that if the beer is still flat the next time I taste.

 

[ebursey]

Also, check the caps. Are the caps bottling caps? I ask as a brewing friends, believing they "found" a great deal on caps discovered all their bottled beer was flat. Turned out their "great deal" on bottle caps was for artistic bottle caps (in other words, no cap liner). D'oh!

Thank you. The bottles are not twist-off bottles and the caps are from my LHBS. They're the right size and they do have a liner.

 

[ebursey]

I just used a cheap, !little electric heater to warm up my closet to carb some bottles. I haven't bottled in years but I made a batch for my niece's 21st birthday. Took that closet up from 66 to a consistent74. The beer carbed nicely in about 2 weeks.

Thanks for the comment. After I determined that the top of the fridge was not consistently warm enough, I rigged an incubation chamber of sorts. I've got the bottles in a storage bin with a FermWrap and Inkbird holding as close to 74F as possible. I'm looking forward to checking on them in after a couple of weeks.

 

[ebursey]

Thank you all for your helpful comments. I want to post a quick follow up. As I mentioned before, I rigged up an incubator using a storage bin, a FermWrap, and an InkBird. I sandwiched the FermWrap between two towels at the bottom of the bin, taped the InkBird sensor near the bottom of one of the bottles, and put all of the bottles into the bin I set the thermostat to 74 degrees. Since it's winter, the InkBird only occasionally read 74F. It usually read between 69F - 72F. About one week after I started, I covered the bottles with a towel to try to trap more heat. That worked but there must have been a problem with the way that I placed the sensor because the InkBird didn't sense the change. After one more week (so two weeks total) I checked the bottles and was surprised to feel how warm some of them were. I would estimate that at least some bottles were around 80F. I turned off the heat and stuck a couple of bottles in the fridge. They were carbonated very nicely. In fact, these are the most carbonated beers I've brewed yet. I don't know if the higher temperature had a negative effect on the beer but I like how they taste, so I'm happy.

So, it seems that at least one factor was temperature. Another may have been the highly flocculant S-04 yeast. From now on, I'll focus on keeping the bottles warm for a couple of weeks after bottling. Honestly, now that I've seen how carbonated this beer was, I think I've always had a bit of a carbonation problem.

Thanks again for your help.