Boil size on conversion from all-grain?

[bucketheadmn]

I am just getting back into brewing again after a few years. Making a batch of Saison from a NB kit tonight and already planning my next brew in a couple/few weeks. For the first time I would like to move away from a kit and try a recipe - in this case a Deschute's Fresh Squeeze Clone from HBA:

For 5.5 Gallons (20.82 L)
11.0 lb (4.99 kg) U.S. pale two-row malt
1.75 lb (0.79 kg) 10° L Munich malt
0.75 lb (340 g) 75° L crystal malt
0.5 oz (14 g) Nugget pellets, 13% a.a. (60 min)
1.0 oz (28 g) Citra pellets, 12% a.a. (15 min)
1.0 oz (28 g) Mosaic pellets, 12% a.a. (15 min)
1.0 oz (28 g) Citra pellets, 12% a.a. (steep 10 min)
1.0 oz (28 g) Citra pellets, 12% a.a. (dry hop 5 days)
1.0 oz (28 g) Mosaic pellets, 12% a.a. (dry hop 5 days)
Whirlfloc tablet (10 min)
White labs WLP001 California Ale yeast

DIRECTIONS
To brew this Fresh Squeezed IPA clone, use 1 g/gallon gypsum to treat distilled or reverse osmosis water. Mash grains at 150°F (66°C) for one hour. Do a 90 minute boil. Steep flameout hops for 10 minutes before chilling.
Pitch cooled wort at 67°F (19°C) and allow temperature to rise naturally to 70°F (21°C). When fermentation is complete, dry hop in primary fermenter for five days.

Drink it as fresh as possible (~2-3 weeks after packaging) for maximum late hop character.

Extract Option

Substitute 8.25 lb (3.74 kg) pale malt extract sytrup for the pale two-row. Mash Munich and crystal malts at 155°F (68°C) for 40 minutes, or until Munich malt reaches conversion. Drain, rinse, and dissolve extract completely before proceeding with boil.

The recipe has the extract conversion, but I am confused on boil size. The extract recipes I have done require a 2.5 gallon boil and then adding 2 gallons of cold water to the carboy before putting wort in it. How does this work with conversions from all-grain? Do I still use a 2.5 gallon boil with the cold water added to the fermentation chamber? Or should I be using another method?

Thanks for any help here!

 

[wilserbrewer]

With all grain brewing one typically boils full volume and does not top up with water.

Your pre boil volume would be batch size plus all losses due to boil off and kettle losses etc.

You can top off the kettle with all grain, but this is typically done in smaller amounts as this decreases your efficiency as you are rinsing the grain with less water.

 

[daveMN]

With all grain brewing one typically boils full volume and does not top up with water.

Your pre boil volume would be batch size plus all losses due to boil off and kettle losses etc.

You can top off the kettle with all grain, but this is typically done in smaller amounts as this decreases your efficiency as you are rinsing the grain with less water.

Of course, assuming OP's boil kettle is big enough for the volume...

 

[Brewtallica]

With that amount of hops, I'd do a full boil. For my setup, to get 5.5 gal in the fermenter, I need to start with about 6.5 gallons for a 60 min boil.

 

[madscientist451]

For the first time I would like to move away from a kit and try a recipe -


The recipe has the extract conversion, but I am confused on boil size. How does this work with conversions from all-grain? Do I still use a 2.5 gallon boil with the cold water added to the fermentation chamber?
Thanks for any help here!

Getting away from kits is a good move. You can boil a smaller amount and add water, but your flavor/bitterness from the hops will be different and the beer probably won't be cloned. The gravity of the wort during the boil has an effect on hop utilization. Remember though that calculated IBU's is just a number and you have to actually taste the finished beer to see what effect you are getting. You can use on line hop utilization calculators to make adjustments, but that's somewhat advanced and its easier to just follow an established recipe.
To determine your pre-boil volume, you should perform a boil test with your heat source and kettle. I'd run the test for 1/2 hour then you can multiply the evaporation amounts by how long you are boiling in a given recipe. Not that your clone recipe calls for a 90 minute boil. Once you determine your boil off rate, you can then work backwards from your desired amount to the fermenter. Good Luck!