Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed

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I've never tested this - just a theory. Maybe an aquarium air pump would be enough. You don't change the condenser as you still need it to condense the steam. The additional air will give some room to absorb steam vapor. Not sure what would happen in the condenser due to the additional pressure though.
Actually it seems the small amount of pressure would just be sucked out by the vacuum created by the condenser and like you state increase boil off.
 
Does the spray nozzle need to be even with the pipe containing the steam? I have a pipe from a rims tube that I wanted to use but the nipple I’m using to connect the water input to the nozzle places the nozzle an inch or so below the opening to the steam pipe.
 
Does the spray nozzle need to be even with the pipe containing the steam? I have a pipe from a rims tube that I wanted to use but the nipple I’m using to connect the water input to the nozzle places the nozzle an inch or so below the opening to the steam pipe.
This question is better answered by Bobby but I think the nozzle should be placed just below the pipe exiting the kettle.
 
The spray only needs not to make its way back into the kettle. Ideally, it is as close to the incoming steam as possible, but I think there is plenty of wiggle room.

I’m a good inch below the steam pipe—I’ll put it together and try it out once I get my plumbing in. Worst case is I buy the right parts.
 
I put together a steam condenser from parts, more or less as suggested at the beginning of this thread by brundog.

details:

9GPH sprayer (at 40 PSI), the well pump is set to 60 PSI, not sure what it is at the washer outlet, but must be at least 40 PSI I would think.
Sprayer tip is below the inlet hole.
Water temp is around 50F.
I used an instrument T (1.5") from brewhardware for the "chamber".
I am testing with 4 gallons of water in a 11 gallon kettle (so considerable amount of empty space)

Maybe this is a silly question but how do I know this is working properly. I don't see steam coming out anywhere. When the water is off to the sprayer, I see a bit of steam coming out the bottom of the condenser chamber (I removed the runoff barb/hose for now, it's just coming out of the 1.5" Tee bottom)

The main thing that's making me suspicious is that the runoff from the condenser is not very hot. Lukewarm.. 90-100F. I seem to remember reading online about runoff temps around 150 or more...

appreciate any thoughts, feedback.

thanks
 
I put together a steam condenser from parts, more or less as suggested at the beginning of this thread by brundog.

details:

9GPH sprayer (at 40 PSI), the well pump is set to 60 PSI, not sure what it is at the washer outlet, but must be at least 40 PSI I would think.
Sprayer tip is below the inlet hole.
Water temp is around 50F.
I used an instrument T (1.5") from brewhardware for the "chamber".
I am testing with 4 gallons of water in a 11 gallon kettle (so considerable amount of empty space)

Maybe this is a silly question but how do I know this is working properly. I don't see steam coming out anywhere. When the water is off to the sprayer, I see a bit of steam coming out the bottom of the condenser chamber (I removed the runoff barb/hose for now, it's just coming out of the 1.5" Tee bottom)

The main thing that's making me suspicious is that the runoff from the condenser is not very hot. Lukewarm.. 90-100F. I seem to remember reading online about runoff temps around 150 or more...

appreciate any thoughts, feedback.

thanks

If your wastewater is around 100 and your water temperature is 50, that heat has to be coming from somewhere, right?

My wastewater temp isn't much higher than yours, but that's fine with me. Water conservation isn't a big issue here and the cost of the water is less than a quarter per batch. I figure I'm actually using about 16 gph with the 9 gph nozzle, so I would expect the temp to be something less than what others might be getting. If you were using a 6 gph nozzle, you would see a higher temp in the wastewater.
 
Seems about the right temp to me too. If the water is coming out hot and or steam as well then the flow or spray pattern isn't enough and it's not doing its' job.
I think you are good with this. Some people are recirculating the water using a pump so this will get hotter and less effective with time.

I can save water in other ways to offset my condenser guilt.
 
thanks for the answers, sounds like I am fine. I may try a 6gph nozzle in the future, but we'll see how this one goes on an actual batch.
 
since I wasted too much time the last couple days and didn't pull the trigger on one of the last two slayers @Bobby_M had in stock , it looks like I'm gonna DIY this for my Anvil.
I know the typical set-up for the Anvil has been to hang over the side, but has anyone configured it to be higher to get the clearance vs longer to get it over the side?
Not sure if it matters much, but paralysis by analysis has been kinda my thing lately.....hence missing out on one of the last slayers lol
 
jlb307 not sure what you are after but there's my DIY solution at the end of this other thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/spike-steam-lid-used-on-65l-brewzilla.689178/#post-9070523
That is an AWESOME set up! I may have to copy that one day.
But what I mean was with the relatively flimsy top that the Anvil comes with, would it be better to have a condenser rig set up higher above the lid for clearance vs extended further out to reduce the cantilever effect on the lid.
 
Not sure how flimsy that Anvil lid is. I have just measured the thickness of my lid and it is 0.75mm and is not flexing with the weight of that condenser in my other photos. The pressed " circles or rings " in the lid do stiffen it up. Used it again yesterday and worked like a dream. You could counterbalance it I suppose to the other side of the lid with a tie of some kind if you thought it was flexing your lid.
 
That's the road I'm taking if need be. I just wanted to see if someone thought of a better way. Parts should be here soon!
 
Pieces finally arrived and assembled!
Tomorrow....test run!
 

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That looks good, wait to hear how well it works, suggest you put a bigger other hole in the lid for hopping, stirring, peeking as brewbuzzard did on pg 43 or as my picture on my lid. That's the top of a preserving jar, the rubber bit makes a nice seal.
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That looks good, wait to hear how well it works, suggest you put a bigger other hole in the lid for hopping, stirring, peeking as brewbuzzard did on pg 43 or as my picture on my lid. That's the top of a preserving jar, the rubber bit makes a nice seal.
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I may do that. I don't know why but I cant find the post you mentioned. Wasn't there a vid too?
And Is yours a Foundry lid?
 
I may do that. I don't know why but I cant find the post you mentioned. Wasn't there a vid too?
And Is yours a Foundry lid?
Whoops page 44 sorry.

The lid is the one that came on my guten 70 litre.

I do have another condenser for the robobrew 35litre, and instead of the glass lid it came with I use the turbo 500 boiler lid ( that I use for heating sparge water) made of stainless steel. It's a direct replacement.
 
So I'm building a new house and I have a Brew Room in the basement. It is on an outside wall and I can easily install a vent in the wall to vent the steam via a hood and fan and also pull make up air back in. However, after reading through this thread, I'm wondering if this would not be a better option. Any recommendations on whether to go with the condenser or the traditional vent hood setup? FYI, I do BIAB electric brewing with SS Brewtech pots. Assume there are no issues fitting the condenser to the SS Brewtech pots?
 
Both work, depends on your needs!

Remember that kettles running hot create a lot of heat, even if there's no steam entering the room anywhere. The kettles are like giant radiators giving off heat.

One of the things I like about having a vent system in my basement brewery is that it I'm bringing in air from the outside to replace the steam I'm venting out. The air coming in will probably be much cooler than the air you're evacuating and this helps keep the room temp down. How much this helps of course depends on where you live. In my case it's cold 6+ months of the year and gets to -20C (-4F) in the winters here. This sort of cold weather is actually PERFECT for vent system brewing as the cold air coming in completely offsets the temperature of the kettles and my brew room is around 65F on the coldest winter days. Some people in colder climates setting up breweries inside the home have been concerned with the room getting too cold during the colder months of the year, but it's just not possible - brewing with a vent system in the frigid north is perfect and comfortable!

Now if I was to use a steam condenser, much of that heat would be in the room and would make the room uncomfortably all hot year round in addition to wasting a lot of water.

Keep this lack of heat removal in mind if considering a steam condenser. You could also use a vent but that seems to defeat the whole purpose. I know some people who have gone the steam condenser route, find it overly hot, and then added a traditional venting setup as well. That seems to sort of defeat the whole purpose of the steam condenser to me.

This is all completely aside the fact that steam condenser systems do not remove as much DMS from the beer since you're boiling with the cover on and only boiling off a very little amount. Depending on who you believe, this can have flavour impacts (more obvious short term) as well as long term stability impacts (less immediately obvious).

Some argue that ventilation system are expensive, but factor in the cost of all that water (plus the environmental impact) of using a steam condenser when considering what you plan on doing. Even if a vent system is more expensive up front in terms of equipment, there's a point where over time the additional water costs will cross what you paid for the vent system and overtake it. Vent systems do use electricity (steam condensers do not) but most ventilation fans are relatively low current and will cost only a few pennies to run on a typical 60-90 min boil. The amount of water used during that time can be significant.

Good luck!

Kal
 
So I'm building a new house and I have a Brew Room in the basement. It is on an outside wall and I can easily install a vent in the wall to vent the steam via a hood and fan and also pull make up air back in. However, after reading through this thread, I'm wondering if this would not be a better option. Any recommendations on whether to go with the condenser or the traditional vent hood setup? FYI, I do BIAB electric brewing with SS Brewtech pots. Assume there are no issues fitting the condenser to the SS Brewtech pots?

Might depend partly on where you live. Any air exiting the house has to come in from somewhere else. If you are battling super hot and humid weather, or super cold weather, the steam slayer might be a better option. If you tend to have pretty nice weather year round and just don't want a lot of smell or condensation then the vent hood might be great.

The steam slayers work pretty awesomely overall, but there's a small chance of a problem occurring. User error, but there (forget to turn the water on, accidentally use hot water, not a high enough GPH, a tight lid that doesn't allow for a burp or suck back of air if needed (mine has a small hole in it "just in case"), You run at a higher power level than you thought, etc. On the flip side, vent hoods just work and are kind of obvious how to use and not forget something. But for me when I am brewing indoors when it's -10 F outside, I'm quite glad to have the condenser vs. pulling a boatload of that chilly air into the house.

******

Looks like kal and I were typing at the same time.
 
FWIW, I love my steam condenser.

But, it may come with a few draw backs, depending on your situation:
1. You'll consume more water. For a 90m boil, I probably use about 8 gallons. If water is cheap, no big deal. If not, might matter. Availability of plumbing may also matter in your basement.
2. You have to dump that water somewhere, meaning drains are helpful. I've seen some that run a tube to drain outside. I fill into buckets and dump down the drain. If you don't have good drains in your basement, it would be a pain to keep carrying buckets of water up stairs.
3. There are times when I need to boil without the lid on. I use an immersion chiller, so I stick it in to sanitize with the last 10 or so min of the boil. The lid won't sit on, so I'm boiling for 10 or so min without the steam condenser. It will raise moisture levels in the room, but not uncontrollably. It doesn't matter to me. It may matter to you.

The draw backs make sense to me, compared to the cost of installing a vent system (and having a permanently fixed location to brew at). But YMMV.
 
If given the choice between a conventional venting and exhausting the space or using a closed condenser type of a system, I would chose the ventilation and exhaust option. Especially if it can be added during the construction of a new house. Do it right the first time. No kludges and reverse engineering.

Do not get me wrong, the Boil Kettle Condenser design is brilliant and a game changer. For those that make use of it in the absence of an alternative it means Homebrew where there would otherwise be none.

And you can always add a condenser apparatus down the road.
 
So I'm building a new house and I have a Brew Room in the basement. It is on an outside wall and I can easily install a vent in the wall to vent the steam via a hood and fan and also pull make up air back in. However, after reading through this thread, I'm wondering if this would not be a better option. Any recommendations on whether to go with the condenser or the traditional vent hood setup? FYI, I do BIAB electric brewing with SS Brewtech pots. Assume there are no issues fitting the condenser to the SS Brewtech pots?

Lots of good info here. I'll add my $0.02. It has worked really well for me. The biggest downside is that you can't crank the boil intensity to reduce volume--so you need to dial in your system/recipes. I haven't noticed any heat issues when brewing with a steam condenser in the basement. I HAVE had user error, and closed the valve to the steam condenser outlet--meaning my Maibock turned into a Helles as the kettle filled up with ~1.5gallons of water that should have been draining. I haven't used a hood, but they can be noisy. I'm sure there is some variation, but you may have to pay more for a quieter blower.

Draining can be a big hurdle, but if you are building a hose, you should definitely build a floor drain. I currently have mine draining through 3/4" CPVC to the floor drain near the central floor drain in our basement. Before that (when I was renting) it was going into buckets.
 
It seems to me the ventilation comes with its own set of inefficiencies and environmental footprint. For most people in most places, you’ll be shoving conditioned air out (heated or cooled) and brining in outside air that is humid/hot/cold.

personally I am on a well and septic tank in a state where it rains all the time. Steam slayer was a no brainer at a fraction of the cost of a proper ventilation system. Like probably 1/10th. I still collect the runoff and use it to flush the toilet.

true it’s a bit more fiddling and connecting disconnecting opening valves etc... I agree there are small downsides.
 
Just some thoughts, and what I was reading when thinking of them. I am quoting people but am not trying to say anything contrary to what they wrote!

The kettles are like giant radiators giving off heat.

I have an Anvil Foundry, and like other e-brewers it is insulated and barely warm to the touch. I could imagine that some kettles indeed would get very warm. In fact if you were using a lot of gas or propane you really might want that ventilation not just for heat but for any moisture, gasses, etc. coming from them as well.

I use an immersion chiller, so I stick it in to sanitize with the last 10 or so min of the boil. The lid won't sit on, so I'm boiling for 10 or so min without the steam condenser.

I had the same issue, but have come to believe that putting it in the kettle right at flame out and letting it sit for a minute is plenty sufficient for killing anything on the outside of it. You might look into it as well.

Especially if it can be added during the construction of a new house.

Good point, for me I have a finished basement and my brew area is a kitchenette of sorts tat doesn't lend itself well to adding a hood. If I was building a house the basement layout and potential venting would definitely be a consideration.

The biggest downside is that you can't crank the boil intensity to reduce volume--so you need to dial in your system/recipes.

This is definitely true, for bigger recipes if I want decent efficiency I have had to boil maybe 30 minutes to reduce the volume, then start my official 1 hour timer with hop additions and so on.

All good answers above, these are just thoughts that came to mind.
 
So I'm building a new house and I have a Brew Room in the basement. It is on an outside wall and I can easily install a vent in the wall to vent the steam via a hood and fan and also pull make up air back in. However, after reading through this thread, I'm wondering if this would not be a better option. Any recommendations on whether to go with the condenser or the traditional vent hood setup? FYI, I do BIAB electric brewing with SS Brewtech pots. Assume there are no issues fitting the condenser to the SS Brewtech pots?

I can not speak about ventilation system, however, i can give some feed back on brewing in my basement with a Steam Slayer. Little history, I am a EBIAB(10 gal Spike Kettle).I just had my home built (started construction) 3 years ago. Once I moved in, i had to do some upgrades. I ran water lines (hot and cold)so that I can have a sink, (bought some cabinets, and a kitchen sink, counter top) for my drain, I have it running to a sump pump. Most of everything is gray water, and which i used to through in my yard when i brewed outside. (sump pump is maybe 7 feet from my sink. I do have access to a drain that goes to my septic, but that would take a lot more work, and expense. I had a 30 amp breaker and outlet installed. My basement is completely open (1600 SQ FT).

With the steam slayer, it is very quite. The set up was very easy to do. I do 5 gal batches, so I end up going through about 6-7 gals of water during my 60 min boil.I use 5 gal buckets to catch the water coming from the Steam Slyer. I swap out buckets about half way through, dump the water in my sink, add cold water to cool the water down (don't want to damage sump pump from the hot water). I do have a slight smell, however it seems to be more of a brewery smell than anything. Not sure if you can get away from that. As far as heat coming from it, The temp will raise up in the basement about 1 degree. Humidity rises about 2%. As far as off flavors or issues with DMS, I have not noticed any myself. It may because of my pallet, who knows.
It did take me a few attempts to dial in my system, just because now, i am boiling with the lid on, and not boiling off as much. in turn, I believe that I am also able to lowered my percent on my element, because it is keeping the heat more inside (lower electric bill), but I can not say, because When I started Brewing inside, I brewed with the steam slayer, so I have not comparison. When I brewed outside, i used Propane.

I hope this helps. With any system, look at your needs, and wants. Either system has its + and its -.
 

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3. There are times when I need to boil without the lid on. I use an immersion chiller, so I stick it in to sanitize with the last 10 or so min of the boil. The lid won't sit on, so I'm boiling for 10 or so min without the steam condenser. It will raise moisture levels in the room, but not uncontrollably. It doesn't matter to me. It may matter to you.
I had the same issue, but have come to believe that putting it in the kettle right at flame out and letting it sit for a minute is plenty sufficient for killing anything on the outside of it. You might look into it as well.

I got this idea from Bobby from brew hardware, And have had no issues since. At Flame out, I place my IC in my wort, hook up my pump to the Chiller, and start chilling. I do a recirculating system. I have had no issues doing it this way.
 
Most of it has been said but I'm going to say it again in my own words.

1. Kal's point. I don't notice any rise in ambient temps when I brew with a condenser. In an open top boil, the rising steam is going to put way more heat into the room than kettle radiation ever would.

2. If you condition your space at all, a vent system is going tax that system more as your exterior temps vary further from your comfort zone. Here in the North East, there are only a couple months a year where drawing outside air into my brewing space would be comfortable. I spend money on heat and A/C to keep the inside temps and humidity comfortable and not ruin the building contents with moisture. I'm not going to be at the whim of what's going on outside, like pulling in 85F air at 100% humidity or 15F air in the middle of winter.

3. The airflow required to adequately eject steam before it all condenses inside the duct work is quite high so if you're going to do it, don't play games with budget blower fans. The real downside is that blowers that do the job correctly are going to be very loud. Anyone that converts their system to electric and notices how pleasantly quiet it is will be in for a rude awakening brewing under the jet engine.

4. Don't put your chiller in until you end the boil. I know someone once told you it had to be jumping around in the boil for 15 minutes to sanitize it but that's ridiculous.

5. Having a water source and sewer immediately adjacent to your brewing station is almost an absolute requirement for cleaning and chilling so I'm not sure anyone would have an issue with that.

6. Cost. A proper exhaust hood (not just one you cobble together with a 200 CFM fan) is going to cost 3x or more than a condenser.

7. DMS impact. I just scored a 41 on a Helles Exportbier. Both judges noted "no DMS". It's one datapoint but it pulls weight against any whataboutism you may come across.

I'm not claiming there are no cons to condensing. I'm just saying they are relatively small and I will never brew under and loud hood. My heat source and pump are almost "off" silent.
 
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Well I'm a total convert to the condenser, but it only manages the moisture generated during the boil and early cooling phase. I do have a simple extractor fan in the wall that vents outside to manage the moisture and smell from the rest of the process.
It's also really quiet, let's me hear the loud music better and you don't get drips falling off the extractor hood.
 
I use a condenser. It was a great alternative to having to put two 6 inch holes through the brick veneer on the front of my house.

While my room does heat up a little while I'm brewing, it's only a couple of degrees and the room is still comfortable.

I've had NO issues with DMS in two+ years of use.
 
I have been using a steam condenser for several years now. I primarily brew lagers and thus use mostly pilsner malt. I have not had any issues with DMS. My boil length is 75 min. I can smell DMS in the run off from the steam condenser. The smell disappears after 45-60 min of boiling. You do have to adjust your recipes for a greatly reduced boil off.
 
I've been using a steam condenser for two-and-one-half years. I have a dehumidifier in the basement where I brew. It never goes on because of boiling wort. There is no steam, no condensation, and no DMS. And what little heat is radiated from the boil kettle is welcome in the winter and negligible in the warm weather. If there is a downside to a steam condenser, I haven't experienced it. I don't think you can say that about an exhaust hood.
 
Thanks everyone for your comments and thoughts. It has helped a lot. When it comes to chilling my wort I have a plate chiller so there would be no need for removing the lid. I also had a floor drain roughed in the concrete floor when they poured the basement so I’m good there too. It’s exciting to plan and have the space exactly how I’m wanting it. With adjusting the recipes for a condenser, is it really just adjusting the water volume with the BIAB setup since it will not be boiling off as much volume?
 
... is it really just adjusting the water volume with the BIAB setup since it will not be boiling off as much volume?

For me it was basically this. But - I am using a 6.5 gallon Anvil (electric), and so I had a few things to learn at once. Change up my mash and sparge method a few times to balance decent efficiency but not too much work, scale my recipes accordingly, and also third evaluate how much I boil off. For me it's about .1 gallons a minute that's comfortable. If I go higher than that I get some actual boil activity / wort coming up through the tubing and down the drain, and the tubing itself gets pretty hot for the spray nozzle I have. I know you aren't set up yet but I think you'll sort of have to be to know what you'll have. Others would probably supply more data points.
 
... is it really just adjusting the water volume with the BIAB setup since it will not be boiling off as much volume?
For standard strength beers, that's pretty much it. For bigger beers, I found my efficiency went down because I wasn't getting the sugars that were contained in that extra gallon or so coming from the mash tun.
 

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