Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed

[DavidWood2115]

Thank you for your thoughtful replies. I get that boiling wort/water has essentially zero dissolved oxygen, but dissolved oxygen is just an oxidation reaction waiting to happen. The fundamental issue (as I understand it, at least) is that oxidation reactions occur at a much higher rate at high temperatures, so during a vigorous boil in an oxygen rich environment these oxidation reactions will occur at a high rate along a rapidly changing surface area. My (limited) reading of the LODO literature suggests that one should merely simmer the wort to reduce the surface area available for oxygen exchange. But it seems obvious, even if you subscribe to LODO, that a vigorous boil would be fine in a low/no oxygen environment. My question was trying to get at whether a steam condenser actually reduces the oxygen content in the headspace of the boil vessel.

 

[doug293cz]

Thank you for your thoughtful replies. I get that boiling wort/water has essentially zero dissolved oxygen, but dissolved oxygen is just an oxidation reaction waiting to happen. The fundamental issue (as I understand it, at least) is that oxidation reactions occur at a much higher rate at high temperatures, so during a vigorous boil in an oxygen rich environment these oxidation reactions will occur at a high rate along a rapidly changing surface area. My (limited) reading of the LODO literature suggests that one should merely simmer the wort to reduce the surface area available for oxygen exchange. But it seems obvious, even if you subscribe to LODO, that a vigorous boil would be fine in a low/no oxygen environment. My question was trying to get at whether a steam condenser actually reduces the oxygen content in the headspace of the boil vessel.

Yes, a steam condenser system will have lower O2 in the atmosphere above the boiling liquid than an open boil.

Brew on

 

[DuncB]

Uh ohh LODO grenade has been thrown. Should liven things up! I'm not going there.

 

[DavidWood2115]

Uh ohh LODO grenade has been thrown. Should liven things up! I'm not going there.

No grenade intended. Not advocating LODO or anything else. Just trying to understand the science.

 

[Spartan1979]

My steam condenser failed today. I checked it to make sure it was operating properly but instead sending out a mist in a cone, it was sending out two little streams. I put it back in figuring it was better than nothing, I checked again a little later but it had stopped spraying completely. I was only only about 15 minutes into my boil at this time, so I ended up just brewing with the lid off. I put a fan in the doorway to help dissipate some of the moisture. There's a cold water pipe running above my brewing area that was condensating moisture so I covered half the pot with tin foil.

When I pulled the spray nozzle out I found rust on the threads where the threads meet the filter screen. I've had some rust on the face of the spray nozzle for a while but I hadn't been too concerned about that. I've been using my condenser for over four years now.

I ordered two new nozzles from McMaster-Carr today (they'll be here tomorrow). I figure I'll keep a spare around from now on. I ordered the 9 gph nozzles. It appears that the 6 gph nozzles are no longer available in stainless.

I should have figured this was coming. I had noticed a few batches ago that the condenser was much quieter than it had been. I looked at spray a couple of times and the pattern seemed normal. Now I wonder if flow was being restricted. Live and learn.

 

[DuncB]

My steam condenser failed today. I checked it to make sure it was operating properly but instead sending out a mist in a cone, it was sending out two little streams. I put it back in figuring it was better than nothing, I checked again a little later but it had stopped spraying completely. I was only only about 15 minutes into my boil at this time, so I ended up just brewing with the lid off. I put a fan in the doorway to help dissipate some of the moisture. There's a cold water pipe running above my brewing area that was condensating moisture so I covered half the pot with tin foil.

When I pulled the spray nozzle out I found rust on the threads where the threads meet the filter screen. I've had some rust on the face of the spray nozzle for a while but I hadn't been too concerned about that. I've been using my condenser for over four years now.

I ordered two new nozzles from McMaster-Carr today (they'll be here tomorrow). I figure I'll keep a spare around from now on. I ordered the 9 gph nozzles. It appears that the 6 gph nozzles are no longer available in stainless.

I should have figured this was coming. I had noticed a few batches ago that the condenser was much quieter than it had been. I looked at spray a couple of times and the pattern seemed normal. Now I wonder if flow was being restricted. Live and learn.View attachment 825542

I bought a stainless spray tip but haven't yet used it. I'm still using the brass spray end that I took off a new garden spray bottle no rust on that and it has been working well, no filter and it was adjustable to tune the spray volume and misting effect.
Guaranteed to fail next brew day isn't it!

 

[tracer bullet]

Good notes. I do have an extra nozzle on hand but will have to pay more attention to the one installed.

My quick check is to touch the lower half of the pipe where the condensing occurs and see if it's cool to the touch, or at least "not hot". Same for the water coming out the tube.

 

[DevilsCups]

Any issues with running a spool to the condenser that is on the longer side? I’d like to direct dump into my sink, but it would probably require a 12-18” run to the condenser tee.

 

[DuncB]

I run mine from ground level and into a sink so that's a few feet of pipe and vertical.
Mine does have the 25w pump as it's a 70 litre unit.

 

[DevilsCups]

Ah sorrry. I mean a good length horizontally. Probably fine all the same eh?

 

[tracer bullet]

If you are getting water to the nozzle and the nozzle is spraying, you should be good to go.

Straighter runs, shorter runs, less or no vertical rise, no tiny tubes, etc. are all best practices. But in the end it just needs to be spraying.

 

[DevilsCups]

Perfect. I’ll give it a whirl. Had a side mount on my last kettle, but moved to a brewtools with the steam hat. It adds some distance with brewing space.

 

[Mad Mann]

I reuse my water for multiple brew by storing in a 20G vessel.

 

[DuncB]

Ah sorrry. I mean a good length horizontally. Probably fine all the same eh?

I used to just attach the hosepipe and water bits of the garden

 

[bleme]

I reuse my water for multiple brew by storing in a 20G vessel.

I usually use my waste water in the garden but that sounds like it might drastically cut down on mineralization!

 

[DevilsCups]

Before I order any parts for this - a quick and dirty mockup. Essentially, I would like to use the Steamslayer I have (1.5" tri-clamp connections). The extension length would likely have to be like shown, circled in red. If anyone well versed can confirm or deny it would work without issue I would be appreciative! The Brewtools hat has a 4" tri-clamp opening on top, so my plan would be to get a reducer to 1.5", elbow it out of the top and run the setup as mocked up. Their steam condenser they sell is all 2" pipes and connections, but I already have the goods in 1.5" and I'd rather use them instead of buying new things for no reason.

I currently dump into one of those blue 5 gallon water jugs, but have to empty it several times during a brew. This would let me dump directly into my sink with no curves in the dump hose (a straight line down), and also let me get rid of that water jug, which would greatly please my wife lol.

The only other option would be a shorter run, but then I'd have to run a silicon dump hose with some curves in it to hit my sink. I understand that's a no-no and a straight run down is the way to go?

 

[DuncB]

Seems okay, having made mine, I exit the lid at 2 inch with elbow, then reducer to 1.5.
You need to ensure their is a downward slope on that horizontal. This will stop spontaneously condensing water running back into kettle.
I put a towel on the lid and another wrapped around pipe up to the condenser. This encourages more steam to reach the condensation point.
Further note I use offset reducer which helps to prevent the runback to kettle chance.

See my efforts here

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/spike-steam-lid-used-on-65l-brewzilla.689178/post-9070523
My setup is the top left picture arrangement. I have since had the lid panel beaten so a nice gentle cone.

 

[tracer bullet]

Before I order any parts for this - a quick and dirty mockup.

The image looks OK. The long run probably isn't ideal but I'm sure it'd work. It'll get pretty hot, FYI, and may have some condensation inside so I'd try to give it a slight tilt so the right side is lower (this may happen on its own just via gravity).

I think some curves in the hose are OK, I have a few, I just try to make sure there are no low spots where the water's got to start running uphill at any point.

Also - I have an Anvil Foundry, the lid has a small hole for recirculation at other steps during the brew day. I leave that open as a "just in case" something goes wrong at any point, and so I don't create any vacuums or pressures in the kettle itself. Might be something to consider. As an FYI, no steam ever comes out of the hole when the sprayer is spraying.

 

[DevilsCups]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I did some quick and dirty measuring. With a 12" spool/extension this is roughly how I imagine the dump tube would lay. Not sure if that would cause any issues with effectiveness. I'd way rather go with a 12" extension over an 18", but either is fine if this causes problems. 18" spool would just be a bit wonkier on the lid.

 

[Deric]

I’ve been running mine like this with no issues. I think the important thing is no sharp bends and make sure the end of the hose never gets submerged.

 

[DevilsCups]

I’ve been running mine like this with no issues. I think the important thing is no sharp bends and make sure the end of the hose never gets submerged.

Great, this saves me some headache. Thank you!

 

[tracer bullet]

Not sure if that would cause any issues with effectiveness.

Not a bit. You might be overthinking it... Can you try it without the extension and see how it goes, then buy it later?

Don't forget that at some point it'll hang so far off that the lid will want to lift up on the opposite side and have the whole thing tip over.

 

[DevilsCups]

Not a bit. You might be overthinking it... Can you try it without the extension and see how it goes, then buy it later?

Don't forget that at some point it'll hang so far off that the lid will want to lift up on the opposite side and have the whole thing tip over.

Hmmm. I need an extension of some sort due to the nature and shape of the steam hat from Brewtools. The condenser tee will bottom out on the domed lid without an extension. It's more a matter of how long an extension I need to be able to dump to the sink effectively without having to go into a bucket.

The good thing about the steam hat is that it clamps onto the kettle, so no worry about tipping or weight imbalance.

 

[tracer bullet]

It's more a matter of how long an extension I need to be able to dump to the sink effectively without having to go into a bucket.

Yeah, sorry, that's what I was trying to say. Get it over the edge of the kettle / use what you have (assuming what you have gets it over the edge of the kettle already), and then let the hose do the rest.

 

[DevilsCups]

Yeah, sorry, that's what I was trying to say. Get it over the edge of the kettle / use what you have (assuming what you have gets it over the edge of the kettle already), and then let the hose do the rest.

All good! My old setup was mounted on the side of my kettle, so no extension. I think the 12” is in order for me. I’ll keep the thread posted once I give it a test run!

 

[BeerNsteadofH2O]

I've been brewing with a Gen Gen 3.1 for 2 year or so, about 6 months ago, I started the steam trap process,I bought the Brewzilla steam trap and distillation lid, I used the hose bib and sink initially, I disliked wasting the water, I have a 30 gallon drum of chilled water with a pump for my immersion chiller, returning the water to the tank left a stinky, oily scum in the tank, I've now moved to a remote pump mounted on my stand,a power supply and a 5 gallon cooler, I put 3 gallons if water and a block of ice, thus recirculating the water, I toss the water at the end of brew but the loss is minimal..I also upgraded the flimsy brewzilla lid, with the pro model with sight glass, boil off rate is just about a gallon and it only requires the 1000 w element for a rolling boil.. late hop or other editions are added through the top cap.

 

[DevilsCups]

Update for those interested - final setup. This should dump into my sink without issue. First brew with it this weekend, so we'll see if it all works and how she does.

 

[BeerNsteadofH2O]

Your going to.like that lid, it's a game changer..once the vacume gets established, the viewing window is clear.

 

[DevilsCups]

Your going to.like that lid, it's a game changer..once the vacume gets established, the viewing window is clear.

You know, I was wondering if it functioned like that. Really happy to hear it does!

 

[BeerNsteadofH2O]

It takes it about 5 minutes to get going, but once it does, it works very well, I use a small LED light to look in the window so I know EXACLY what's going on, I dont put the clamp on the top cover if I'm adding hops,irish moss or yeast nutrient, but I DO keep my gloves handy, also, if you remove the cap, dont get you face near it or you wont need to.shave for a good while.