Bohemian Dark Lager Water Profile?

[CleanEmUpIves]

No steeping, just what I was saying. Adding Carafa at the Vorlauf isn't steeping.

The roast grain is literally just sitting in hot wort while it's being run off which technically makes it a form of steeping.

Which returns us to the starting question: how do the Czechs manage their extremely soft water to brew dark beers. No definitive answers found so far.

They don't have to modify the water because the acidic roast grains are not being mashed. The remainder of the grain bill gives an acceptable pH.

 

[Protos]

The roast grain is literally just sitting in hot wort while it's being run off which technically makes it a form of steeping.

Strictly technically, lauter additions are a form of mashing rather than steeping as they don't go into a dedicated steeping vessel and are added to the mash tun along with the base malts, although for a very short time. Anyway, what we were talking about, was -

Several articles and recipes found on Craft Beer and Brewing Magazine from Czech brewers suggest steeping the dark grains separately...

- i. e. about a proper (not just technically) steeping process where the dark grainS (not just Black Malt) are steeped separately. I still haven't found those articles, but I'm sure Czech brewers might indeed recommend steeping - after all why wouldn't modern Czech brewers adopt some innovative methods? That doesn't make those methods traditional, however.

The remainder of the grain bill gives an acceptable pH.

That's true. Following the Chramosil advice, I removed Black Malt from my Brun calculation sheet and the predicted pH increased from 5.19 to 5.31, which is still pretty low but acceptable.

 

[CleanEmUpIves]

lauter additions are a form of mashing rather than steeping as they don't go into a dedicated steeping vessel and are added to the mash tun along with the base malts

The mash is over at the time of lauter due to the raising of the temperature to denature the enzymes (mash out) hence making it a steep. At the homebrew level the lauter may not last long enough, even when fly sparging, to extract the desired level/characteristics of the roast malt thus the need to use a separate vessel.

Either way you're grasping at straws and have the answers you need.

 

[BertusBeensteen]

I would like to know how the recipe will turn out.

I've had multiple examples of tmavě ležák recently, although not from a sidepull unfortunately but from can and bottle.
All examples are somewhat similar, but also distinguishably different. Great style in my opinion.

 

[Protos]

you're grasping at straws

Am I? I thought it was you - bringing the subject of lauter additions which are "technically" steeping while the talk was about steeping all dark grains separately. Well, let it be me, whatever

I would like to know how the recipe will turn out.

The bubbler is bubbling!
I decided not to experiment with super soft water this time, so I used the harder Grainfather "Czech water" profile which looked more familiar and more predictable to me. Next time, when I collect more reliable info on Czech water for Bohemian Dunkels, I'll use different water. Now, just not enough information.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

Here is what a commercial brewery said about water for any Czech lager, use 90% RO water, and 10% filtered city tap water. This is if your local water supply is moderately hard.
That's pretty simple. And this is what we do.

 

[Protos]

That's great! This, and the steeping lauter addition of the Black Malt may really produce an acceptable mash pH. Will use such a water profile next time.

 

[CleanEmUpIves]

It's a good decision on your part to steep those dark grains during lauter.

Remember that Weyerman base malts, especially the floor malted, tend to have a higher DI pH thus negating the need for anything but soft water.

Be sure to use a water calculator that allows for custom DI pH entry and override. Mash Made Easy comes to mind or any that took AJ Delanges advice. Calculators based on SRM and bicarbonate conversions may not be as accurate (Bru n water, ez water. Etc)