Blue Moon Clone

[nilo]

Actually, I believe Nilo states that he believes #12 is the closest, but a lot of people have said the flavor profile is a little off due to the use of the Crystal.

I would be interested to find out what the results would be like if using a similar recipe to Wayne's original with perhaps the Steel Cut Oats as Keith Villa claims they use to make Blue Moon. Nilo used starch to obtain the body, haze and mouthfeel but I'm thinking that the use of Steel Cut could deliver similar results.

Both are actually correct. #8 was the most voted in a pool I started on my blog, however, #12 was "to my taste" the better one.
I'm still dry but pick here once in a while to see where this thread is heading.
I still have all records of all batches, in case someone needs any details. Doing some electronics to keep busy, but all brewing gear is safe and stored. Gotta get back brewing someday

 

[Wayne1]

Wayne, that looks amazing. It looks like it has some nice body to it.

Have you given any thought to my findings earlier that Keith apparently uses steel cut oats, and do you think that would make any difference?

Personally, I do not think Steel Cut Oats make much difference. At SandLot and at other breweries where I have made this beer, I have mostly use Briess Flaked Oats. I have also used the OIO brand from Canada. I could not tell much difference.

I have heard a rumor that when Blue Moon was brought into the main Coors plant to be brewed in 2,000 bbl batches, the yeast was changed to a lager yeast fermented at around 57. Maybe that was to reduce the flocculation and give a bit hazier product. I will be trying to track this down a bit more.

Coors did remove most of their cereal cookers from the main brewhouse and changed the rice and corn adjuncts to syrups to reduce total cost.

 

[mike_g08]

Hello. I am looking to brew this for summer enjoyment. I’m aiming to approximate a clone to Blue Moon. My question is: should I go with fresh orange zest, or dried orange zest (either McCormick or Frontier), and what is the approximate equivalence between the two?
Thanks,

 

[nilo]

Hello. I am looking to brew this for summer enjoyment. I’m aiming to approximate a clone to Blue Moon. My question is: should I go with fresh orange zest, or dried orange zest (either McCormick or Frontier), and what is the approximate equivalence between the two?
Thanks,

I think that several factors will play, imho:
-How fresh the dry orange peel is;
-Which type of fresh orange you use
-How you use the fresh orange peels, how small you chop it, when in the process you add it;
-Your taste buds;

My experience with fresh orange peels is, using long strings as peeled, it takes a considerable amount to impart flavor. I think that chopping it in small pieces or even crushing will improve efficiency but, doing this will release all that oily substance and I'm not sure how that could affect head retention. Also, I assumed fresh peels should never be boiled, may be I'm wrong, but a major difference on using fresh to dry peel is the great aroma, and you don't want all that to evaporate away. I used the peels during fermentation. Perhaps added to the keg, like dry hopping, would also work.
I noticed that beers using fresh peels would have stronger aroma when green, but both aroma and flavor changed a lot over time as the beer ages.
Dry peels, in other hand, impart stronger flavor in my opinion which doesn't change much with time.

Hope that helps, make your experiments and compare.

 

[mike_g08]

Thanks Nilo. There are a lot of variables related to orange peel! By the way, in reading your recipe #12 it looks like both coriander and orange peel are placed in the boil 10 mins before flameout. Is this correct?

 

[nilo]

Thanks Nilo. There are a lot of variables related to orange peel! By the way, in reading your recipe #12 it looks like both coriander and orange peel are placed in the boil 10 mins before flameout. Is this correct?

Sounds about right.

 

[Spank]

I brewed Nilo #12 and was amazed at the feedback I got. I did a blind taste test with 6 people vs Blue Moon and all 6 picked mine over BM as the preferred taste. One did say mine seemed a little over-carbonated, which I agree with. Overall though it was pretty close in taste and vision to the real deal. Its a keeper recipe. They went pretty quick.

Few small notes on my experience with Nilo #12; The taste altered a bit the more it conditioned in the bottle. The first 3-4 weeks tasted smoother than the bottles opened since then. Also the head on the beer no longer looks creamy and smooth. It looks more like soda fizz and dissipates almost instantly. In less then 30-45 seconds the beer is foamless. Wonder why that is?

 

[nilo]

Did you use the carapills? That supposelly help head retention. One other possible culprit is the orange peel. Not sure which one you used, oils from the peels may work against you.

 

[Spank]

I followed #12 grain bill and recipe as exact as I could. I did use McCormick Valencia Orange peel though. Its all I could find locally. Thanks for the feedback. Not complaining about it. It was excellent. Just looking for answers. Im still a newb to brewing.

 

[Sudz]

Some of you guys have committed on the coriander being too strong. I have found that the crush makes a big difference on the stuff.

I was using a coffee mill to grind the coriander for a Belgian Wit I make. It always seemed that the coriander was over powering. Someone said not to grind but crush it with a rolling pin. I did, and it made a big difference.

So the question now is what is done on these recipes with respect to the coriander... is it ground or crushed?

 

[nilo]

True. I have coarsely crushed the coriander inside a zip-lock bag. Added to boil inside a muslin bag with the other spices so it doesn't stay for fermentation (this is another point to consider also).

 

[Sudz]

Okay, let me demonstrate my ignorance once again. You guys are discussing #8 and #12 with reference to recipes. So where are these or how are they found? I'm a bit fuzzy on what these numbers actually reference, They're not post or pages, so what are they?

 

[nilo]

Recipes are secret, you need to buy a membership to access....

 

[nilo]

Recipes are secret, you need to buy a membership to access....

or go HERE

 

[Sudz]

Okay, you got me on that. Thanks for the insight and recipes.

I'll renew my membership right now...

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Alright, folks - I'm a fan of Blue Moon, and would like to give it a try. As a food historian, my preference is to follow @Wayne1's original formula as closely as I can. My batch size will be 1 gallon, because that's what I do.

In the reading that I did, I did not come across a 1-gallon-sized recipe, so this adaptation might not be perfect. Hopefully, Wayne is still active on this board and this thread. If my adaptation is wildly off, I'd appreciate a comment or PM with any suggestions, as I tend to gravitate toward the "original" where things like this are concerned. I've only made it through about 30 pages of the thread, but it appears that all of the information for the original recipe are covered there.

The only major difference that I can see is the use of a 60 minute boil, as a 90-minute boil seemed to be too much for a 1-gallon batch. I did, however, hit the IBUs on target, I believe. My biggest challenge was in trying to set the amounts for the ground coriander and ground Valencia orange peel. There was some back-and-forth between teaspoons and ounces, which can get confusing when dealing with a batch as small as 1 gallon. I finally settled on what I think is fair number, keeping Wayne's ratio of 3 (coriander) to 1 (orange) in mind. Once again, I would indeed appreciate any correction.

I'm pretty much a non-scientific, stove-top brewer, but I did plug my ideas into Brewer's Friend, and I feel that I am close to the original.


Blue Moon Clone
TasunkaWitko's Adaptation
Inspired by Wayne1's Original Recipe

1 gallon

Stats

OG - 1.053
FG - 1.010
ABV - 5.6%
IBUs - 17.02
SRM - 4.17


Fermentables

American Pale 2-Row Malt - 1 lb.
American White Wheat - 0.8 lb.
Flaked Oats - 0.2 lb.

Rice Hulls - 0.1 lb.

Mash @ 154. for 60 minutes


60-Minute Boil

Hops

Hallertau Mittelfruh (estimate 3.75 AA) - .25 oz. at 40 minutes

Other Ingredients

Ground Coriander - 0.14 oz. @ 10 minutes
Ground, Dried Valencia Orange Peel - .2 oz. @ 5 minutes

Yeast - S-05

I think this covers everything. If I have committed any glaring errors or have strayed from the original concept, please let me know.

Thanks -

Ron

 

[TasunkaWitko]

After (finally!) reading all posts on this thread, I made a very slight change to my original post above.

Based on Wayne's "updated" recipe for the original, I edited the proposed amounts of both the coriander and the orange peel in order to reflect a 1-gallon sized batch using his updated amounts of those ingredients.

As far as I can tell, this is an accurate representation of Wayne's original recipe, scaled down to 1 gallon; I will use this as a starting point and tweak from there if necessary.

As far as "brand names" for ingredients, I believe that Wayne mentioned Rahr for the pale malt, so I will try that. If I am wrong, please let me know. I am able to order from the Savory Spice Shop in Colorado, so I will get my coriander from there, requesting a fresh grind; I will also get the ground orange zest there, since the true original does not seem to be available for home brewers.

Thanks -

Ron

 

[jjw5015]

Assuming you are using brew in a bag since you said you brew on the stove top 1 gallon, rice hulls not necessary

 

[Wayne1]

Hello Ron,

Thanks for the interest in my posts.

First off, I have to say I have never brewed 1 gallon batches of anything, so I do not think I can help you out with adapting the recipe down to that size. The original recipe was adapted down from 15 bbl (500 gallons) to 5 gallon based on my numbers brewing on both sized systems.

I believe you are correct in that the amount of spice you use will be entirely up to you. You can start out with the numbers you have posted, try it and adapt from there. If you have a local spice shop, I would buy from them for consistency. Over the years I have found great changes in all of the various vendors goods mentioned in these posts.

The original recipe is now 20 yrs old. The barley varieties have changed since Blue Moon was first made. Hops have also changed. Again, find out what you can get locally and stay with that. SandLot first used Great Western malt and the ownership and the malting varieties and blends of barley have all changed in the interim. Use a good supplier like Rahr of Cargill for a 2 row base malt. Everything else is left to chance.

Good luck in your quest.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Good morning, gentlemen, and thank you for the feedback - it is appreciated!

jjw5015 - my "stove-top" brewing follows fairly closely to this procedure outlined here:

[ame]https://vimeo.com/11354805[/ame]

I haven't yet tried BIAB, but I really should one of these days, as it might simplify things and could possibly boost efficiency a bit.

Wayne - thanks much for your advice. As you said, the scaling down is definitely something that will require some "twiddling with the knobs," especially going down to such a small amount. I'll endeavor to report back on the results, if anyone is interested.

I hear you on the spices; my closest LHBS is 250 miles away in Billings, but there is a spice shop in Great Falls, which is only 130 miles away. I will see what thy have the next time we are down there. As for grains, I've had good luck ordering them from www.homebrewsupply.com; I see that Rahr malts are available from that site.

Thanks again for your diligence in guiding folks through the learning processes of resurrecting the original Blue Moon. It is very much appreciated by many of us, and I hope that I can do justice to your efforts.

 

[muskokawildman]

Hey Wayne, I have made various Blue Moon clones over the past few years. I followed your recipe this time. I trust it will turn out well. Final gravity was 1.052.

 

[thunderwagn]

Hey Wayne, I have made various Blue Moon clones over the past few years. I followed your recipe this time. I trust it will turn out well. Final gravity was 1.052.

I've made several variations of BM clones, but I'd have to say, Wayne's original recipe here is my personal favorite. I let it sit a bit to condition, but I think it's great.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Alright, I ordered the grains for this, so it is on deck, soon. I'll order the coriander and Valencia orange peel when I get closer to a confirmed Brew Day.

This is a 1-gallon batch, which hasn't yet been attempted, to my knowledge; I'll post on results, and if it turns out well, the recipe can be used by other small-batch brewers.

As I recall, it was decided that both the coriander and the Valencia orange peel are to be ground when weighed before adding to the boil? If not, let me know.

Thanks -

Ron

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Alrighty - all ingredients have arrived and this brew is ready to go at the first opportunity that I have. I am looking forward to brewing it as a nice fall/winter beer.

Per the advice I have been reading, I plan to be using rice hulls, 1/10 of a pound, for this 1-gallon batch. I've never used rice hulls before, but as I recall they go right into the mash, along with everything else.

If that is not the case, please let me know.

When I do start this brew, I will open a new thread on it and post a link to it here.

Thanks again to all, especially Wayne!

Ron

 

[TasunkaWitko]

@Wayne1 or @nilo -

Please forgive my newbie ignorance, but is there a reason for the 90-minute boil?

For a 1-gallon batch, would you say (best guess) that I should do a 90-minute boil, or would a 60-minute boil be advisable?

I know that 1-gallon batches aren't your normal thing, but I'd be very grateful for any guidance -

Ron

 

[Wayne1]

Ron,

Sorry for not responding right away. I spent the last two days brewing 1000 gallons of Cream Ale

For such a very small batch, I do not see any reason to boil for 90 min. On larger scales I always boil for 90 min to get the evaporation amounts I want. This will serve to condense the brew and drive off any volatiles.

In the 15 bbl system, I run between 6-8% evaporation. So roughly, I boil off 31 gallons over the course of 90 min. On my homebrew system I run around 10% boil off. I will suggest you boil a couple of gallons of water for 60 min to find out your evaporation rate and use that to calculate the amount of water you need to start with.

You will also have losses in transfers from kettle to fermenter and from fermenter to bottles. Add those numbers into your calculations to determine what volume to start with to end up with 1 gallon of beer.

Good luck,
Wayne

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Ron,

Sorry for not responding right away. I spent the last two days brewing 1000 gallons of Cream Ale

For such a very small batch, I do not see any reason to boil for 90 min. On larger scales I always boil for 90 min to get the evaporation amounts I want. This will serve to condense the brew and drive off any volatiles.

In the 15 bbl system, I run between 6-8% evaporation. So roughly, I boil off 31 gallons over the course of 90 min. On my homebrew system I run around 10% boil off. I will suggest you boil a couple of gallons of water for 60 min to find out your evaporation rate and use that to calculate the amount of water you need to start with.

You will also have losses in transfers from kettle to fermenter and from fermenter to bottles. Add those numbers into your calculations to determine what volume to start with to end up with 1 gallon of beer.

Good luck,
Wayne

Hi, Wayne, and no worries - it's been a busy weekend for me. The cream ale sounds interesting! I tried one from Crow Peak Brewing Company in Spearfish, South Dakota, and really liked it. One of these days, I'll try making it.

I get what you're saying with the volume and losses as relating to the boil and transfers, and I'll keep it in mind with this. Thanks for the advice, and double thanks for being available to guide folks in their efforts. I'll do my best to do justice to this project.

 

[allan67]

@Ron - How did your 1 gallon Blue Moon clone turn out?

 

[TasunkaWitko]

@allan67 - hey, Allen -

I haven't made it yet, but hope to in the beginning of October sometime...by the end of the month, for sure!

 

[jwalker1140]

Sorry for not responding right away. I spent the last two days brewing 1000 gallons of Cream Ale

Wayne, any chance you could post your Cream Ale recipe?