Blue Moon Clone

[nilo]

My previous attemp was this:
4.5# white wheat malt
4.5# 2 row
1# crystal 10L
1/4# crystal 40L
2# Flaked oats (Mashed)
1/2# rice hulls

It came out very nice, color was a match to the original. Too thin though.
I now tried to use only one crystal malt, for color and some residual stweetness.
Removed the rice hulls, added some carapils for head improvement and boiled some oats instead of mashing it.
Same yeast than before.

 

[nilo]

Here's how it looks right now, nice krausen, going strong.
Look the huge trub on the bottom from the oats
Hope it compacts further after fermentation is done so I can get the beer out without that.

 

[Scheele11]

I happened to stumble across a recipe that has
Everything except water amounts.

 

[BrewNinja1]

Umm....what?

 

[midfielder5]

One's water volume needs depend on your system/ process [equipment loss, space under your false bottom, boil-off rate, grain absorption, whether you want extra wort to freeze for starters, etc.]
Just punch it into beersmith or something & it will calc it for you.

 

[ekjohns]

Scheele11 care to post the recipe?

 

[tremec77]

I have a few newb questions. I am wanting to brew this up in a few weeks. Are you guy just adding the orange peel and coriander to the boil and then straining it out, or are you putting it in bags like the hops? Also, are you crushing the coriander seeds or just adding them just as they come (round)?

 

[midfielder5]

crush/ crack coriander & toss in w/ peel.

 

[ekjohns]

if your going for the blue moon taste skip the peel and use 1/2 of orange extract

 

[Wayne1]

The original recipe used pre-ground coriander and pre-ground dried Valencia (sweet) orange peel.

Getting the ratio of spices correct is the hardest part. It helps to have a starting point and something that can be consistently replicated as you try to dial in the recipe to suit your tastes.

I would not suggest cracking your own coriander as it would be very hard to duplicate the exact crack the next time you brewed it. Same thing with zesting your own orange peel.

 

[mccabedoug]

The original recipe used pre-ground coriander and pre-ground dried Valencia (sweet) orange peel.

Getting the ratio of spices correct is the hardest part. It helps to have a starting point and something that can be consistently replicated as you try to dial in the recipe to suit your tastes.

I would not suggest cracking your own coriander as it would be very hard to duplicate the exact crack the next time you brewed it. Same thing with zesting your own orange peel.

Wayne1, I don't have 1/10th of the brewing knowledge that you do, but I gotta ask a question about your coriander comment. Each and every time that I used the 'ground coriander' from the grocery store in my wits, I got zero orange taste/smell. I purchased a couple pounds of coriander seeds online and I crack them myself in my spice grinder and voila, orange! I find that when I use my spice grinder (a dedicated spce-only Krups coffee grinder) I get a very consistent, orange-y spice each and every time. I just don't get that from the pre-ground corainder from the store.

Also, what do you think about how this recipe thread is going? Just curious.

 

[ekjohns]

i to bought pre ground corriander and got nothing out of it. probable cause it was cracked a long time ago. i think next time its a coffee ginder

 

[tremec77]

crush/ crack coriander & toss in w/ peel.

I'm guessing this all goes in a mulsin bag......or it is strained out before fermentation?

 

[Wayne1]

Wayne1, I don't have 1/10th of the brewing knowledge that you do, but I gotta ask a question about your coriander comment. Each and every time that I used the 'ground coriander' from the grocery store in my wits, I got zero orange taste/smell. I purchased a couple pounds of coriander seeds online and I crack them myself in my spice grinder and voila, orange! I find that when I use my spice grinder (a dedicated spce-only Krups coffee grinder) I get a very consistent, orange-y spice each and every time. I just don't get that from the pre-ground corainder from the store.

Also, what do you think about how this recipe thread is going? Just curious.

Allow me to go into a bit more detail on my comments. I will agree with your statements that grocery store spices will not give the flavor of fresh ground. My suggestion of pre-ground is to assure consistency. When I purchased the pre-ground spices, they were freshly ground by the vendor. If possible, I would suggest trying to find a spice shop that sells freshly ground spices to use for all your spice needs. In Denver, there is a small chain called Savory Spice. They grind all their spices on a weekly basis. This way you will be sure of the consistency of the grind.

I am sure you can get good grinds from your spice mill. If someone does not own a spice mill, then the best bet would be to buy pre-ground from a specialty shop, rather than the grocery store.

tremec77,

No need to bag anything. Just throw the ground spices in the kettle at the suggested times. If some of the spices get transferred with the wort to the fermenter, no big deal. They will all settle out eventually.

I am very happy with how the thread has progressed. People have brewed the original recipe I posted and are now changing things a little at a time to bring it closer to their perception of what Blue Moon is today.

 

[tremec77]

tremec77,

No need to bag anything. Just throw the ground spices in the kettle at the suggested times. If some of the spices get transferred with the wort to the fermenter, no big deal. They will all settle out eventually.

Thanks for clearing that up Wayne. I can't wait to get started with this brew!

 

[tremec77]

I just purchased the "American Wheat" kit from Homebrewers.com http://www.homebrewers.com/product/ALP1004/American-Wheat-Beer-Kit.html and I'm thinking of just using that kit and then adding sweet orange peel and coriander to that. I know it isn't going to be a Blue Moon clone but I thought it might be a good "sweet" wheat beer. Anyone have any thoughts on what I can expect from this brew?

 

[midfielder5]

tre: your kit uses diff yeast, hops, malt & some unspecified kind of specialty grains.
I'd do it as is, then brew this one as is.
cheers.

 

[tremec77]

tre: your kit uses diff yeast, hops, malt & some unspecified kind of specialty grains.
I'd do it as is, then brew this one as is.
cheers.

Yeah, i figured it wouldn't be much like BM but I thought I might experiment and add the orange peel and coriander just to see what I get. I am definitely going to try the correct recipe for a true BM in the next month or so.

 

[bgruis]

Thanks to OP and Wayne1!

I have tinkered with a couple different versions of Blue Moon clone and then found Wayne1's recipe...I brewed this about a month ago and WOW!....amazing beer. I just brewed another 10 gallons to keep up with demand. Never have I had kegs disappear so fast.

Truth be told, and I know I will catch shi* for this....I accidently racked my first version of this to a keg at two weeks (I forgot to mark the carboy...and thought I was pulling an American week that was three weeks old). And even then...after about 4 days on CO2...this was a phenomenal beer.

Prost!

 

[GusWatab]

This is a fantastic thread!!!

 

[GusWatab]

I know Wayne1's recipe is an AG recipe but I have been attempting to formulate an extract brew of Wayne1's recipe because my lovely wife has requested a blue moon clone sort of beer for after the baby is born in April. I am currently in the works of building an AG system with kegs etc. but not quite there yet. So...here is what I have come up with using Wayne's 50% Pale Malt, 40% Wheat Malt and 10% Flaked or Rolled Oats ratio for Blue Moon.

(2) 3.3lb cans of Muntons Wheat Extract (this is 55% Wheat and 45% Barley Malt)
(1) 1.4lb can of Alexander's Pale Malt "Kicker"
(1) 1 lb bag of Flaked Oats

This should give me a ratio of:
4.37lbs Barley Malt (48.5%)
3.63lbs Wheat (40.3%)
1 lb Flaked Oats (11%)

Steep Oats for 20 min at about 155 degrees.
-->BOIL
Add Extracts
-->BOIL
Add 1 oz Hallertauer hops (60 min)
Add 1 oz ground Coriander seeds (10 min)
Add 1/3 oz. Valencia Orange Peel (5 min)

Then finish it off with a California Ale Yeast (WL0001)

I was going to use the extract recipe which calls for Orange Blosson Honey but Wayne said there is NO HONEY in Blue Moon so...After lots of calculations and digging around looking at different malts etc. This is what I came up with!

Thoughts??

I will let you all know how it turns out and how it is progressing as soon as I brew it (probably this week or this weekend)

 

[ekjohns]

few problems with this.
1. 1 oz of FRESH ground corriander will be overpowering. Try using 1/4 to 3/8oz.
2. No one on this form has gotten anywhere close to the orange taste of the original using orange peel (fresh, dried, or ground). Which in my opinion is the best part abut blue moon. Using 1/2 oz of orange extract late in the secondary will get you much closer.
3. The mouth feel is very thin even with mashing 2 lbs of oats. Nilo tried 1/2 lb boiled oats and it was very think. He suggested 1/4 lb boiled to get that nice thick mouth feel.

Welcome to thread. some of us on here have been very dedicated to getting the clone perfect so please post your results which will help us get 1 step closer

 

[nilo]

Adding to my experience with boiling 1/2lb of oats.
I just bottled that batch and although the fermenter was full of a slimy trub when fermenting, after fermentation resumed it compacted and I was able to rack the beer off and bottle without much problem (pic below).
And it didn't taste too thick at that point (65F).
I'll have to wait after bottle conditioning, cool it and try it again before I can make my final assessment.

 

[BeerBaronBob]

You are pretty darn close.

You might want to go up as high as 2.25 oz of coriander and 0.8 oz of orange peel.

For 15 bbls I used 90 oz of coriander and 32 oz of orange peel.

Hi ekjohns:

I have to refer to Wayne's original ratios that work out to approx 0.75oz of Corriander and 0.26 oz of Sweet Valencia Orange Peel for a 5.25 gal batch. Granted to scale down to a 5 gal batch from what Wayne was brewing is not always linear but the ratios start there for a 5 Gal batch. I did try up to 1.25 oz of Corriander and I did not find the beer to be overly spiced.

What Wayne has suggested repeatedly is to start at this ratio and set yourself a baseline taste to determine how each of you can make your second batch more to your liking from the baseline. (I have not used less than 0.5 oz Corriander in any batches yet)

My current batch is finishing fermenting now and ready to carb this weekend. I used your suggestion of Orange Extract and I used 4 TBLS out of a 2 OZ bottle at the end of boil which is less than 0.5 oz. My initial smell reaction was that the orange aroma was too strong so I have yet to concur about the orange extract addition. Two weeks will tell me more but in this batch I used 0.5 oz of Corriander, 0.25 oz of Valencia Orange Peel as well as the orange extract.

Each person will most likely be satisfied with different levels of flavor. My suggestion for new brewers is to echo Wayne to start with the 3:1 ratio ground corriander to ground Valencia Orange Peel and then compare this to the real thing and then go start some modifications.

BBB

 

[ekjohns]

I used 4 TBLS out of a 2 OZ bottle at the end of boil which is less than 0.5 oz.

Was this a 10 gallon batch because 4 TBLS is 2oz, and 4 tsp is 2/3 oz. Either way both are more than 1/2 oz.

My initial smell reaction was that the orange aroma was too strong so I have yet to concur about the orange extract addition.

The extract is very delicate and it will mellow quite a bit.

 

[BeerBaronBob]

sorry 4 teaspoons not tablespoons orange extract and checking the bottle just about 0.5 fl oz out of what was a 2.8 fl oz bottle not 2 oz as I thought earlier.

 

[GusWatab]

Like Wayne said, scaling down from a 15BBL brewhouse can be a bit tricky but if I go off of his original recipe, he calls for 1 oz. Coriander and 1/3 oz Valencia Orange Peel (1 to 3 ratio). It looks like other have used this same ratio and some even more Coriander and VOP.

I would like to get this as close as possible and I like the idea of a starting point to tweak down the road.

1/4 to 3/8 oz of Coriander seems like it would not be enough...especially when referring to Wayne's recipe.

Also a quick question regarding the oats...did you treat the oats as a specialty grain and just steep them for 20 min or so? Nilo states boiled oats. How long did you boil them and did you strain them out at the end or is the slimy trub due to the boiled oats?

Any add'l thoughts or ideas would be great. Thanks a lot fellas!!

 

[ekjohns]

Well the nice thing about extract is if you brew with orange peel and dont get the flavor your looking for you can always at 1/4 oz at a time at kegging or bottling untill you get it where you want it

BBB: the orange flavor will prob mellow out after its aged a few weeks. Orange flavoring is very delicate. Hence why fresh zested orange is always better than dired

 

[nilo]

I boiled 1/2lb oat flakes in a muslin bag for the whole duration of the boil (60min).
I once did a rye ale and boiled the rye flakes and didn't use a muslin bag, and that was a nightmare to separate that when transferring to the fermenter.

 

[tremec77]

I boiled 1/2lb oat flakes in a muslin bag for the whole duration of the boil (60min).
I once did a rye ale and boiled the rye flakes and didn't use a muslin bag, and that was a nightmare to separate that when transferring to the fermenter.

Nilo, I'm using Wayne's recipe and following your advice on small changes. Are you saying to add the oats to the mash but keep 1/4oz out in order to boil in the wort?