Blue Moon Clone

[Wayne1]

I think your beers will be fine. The yeast you used will work at 50F but very slowly.

There may be a bit of a different flavor due to the week at low temps, but it should not hurt the beer. You could have kept them at 50F, but it may have taken a few months for the yeast to ferment the sugar in the carb drop to create enough carbonation.

Just leave them be at room temp for a few weeks.

 

[kjdoyle]

Thanks Wayne....worked like a charm.

I have to say that that is a fantastic recipe, and one I will make many more times. Since I followed your instructions and made it as you did once, now I can tweak it and know what affect it has on taste. Thanks again for all your input on this recipe - Bellyslide Belgian White.

 

[Wayne1]

I'm glad it turned out okay.

Now that you have brewed it once to the recipe, you can make it more your own with tweaks here and there. It won't be Blue Moon but it may be more to your particular taste.

Cheers

Wayne

 

[crlova2]

Wayne,

Thanks for all of the help and info on this recipe. I have a couple of questions regarding the attempt I am going to make at this in the coming weekend. I have never used beersmith as far as calculating a recipe based off of percentages so can you take a look at my recipe and tell me what you think please. Also, I saw that someone else was doing a protein rest and wanted to check and see if that was done when you brewed it. I want to keep it as close as possible to how it was done at the brewery so I am just double checking that it was a single infusion. Also, how many pounds of rice hulls would you recommend with my recipe? I didn't include the spice addition in the recipe because I haven't decided yet. I am going to use the ground Valencia but haven't decided how much yet due to people saying McCormiks not giving much flavor. Maybe 2.5 tsp orange and 3 tsp coriander. I know the ratio isn't right but if the potency of the orange peel is off I figured I shouldn't add more corriander just because I am trying to make up for less potent orange peel.

Brewer: Charlie
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Wheat
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 10.50 gal
Boil Size: 14.04 gal
Estimated OG: 1.056 SG
Estimated Color: 3.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 18.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
10.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 50.00 %
8.25 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 39.29 %
2.25 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 10.71 %
2.50 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] (90 min)Hops 18.1 IBU
2 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter Yeast-Ale

I'm going to mash at around 154 for 90 minutes and possibly use pacman yeast instead of american ale?
One more thing. I have only done a couple all grain and never used wheat. Do I mill the wheat just as I would the 2 row?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Wayne1]

The basic recipe you posted looks good. Personally, I would cut down on the fermentables a bit. Try to stay closer to the 1.050-1.053. Mash lower in the 150 F range. No need to ever use a protein rest with today's malts. Single infusion with a mash-out is how I have always brewed this.

I have never used Pacman yeast. From what I have read it ferments out quite dry. I don't think you would want that. Safale US-05 or California Ale yeast would be the safest bet.

If this is your first attempt at this recipe, don't try to change too many things. Brew it the way I suggested to see how it turns out. THEN make changes. Don't try to change yeast, mash temp, and ratio of spices for the first time brewing. It takes time to fine tune a recipe to your tastes. Don't go on what other people say is the way to do things (including me ) Try it first with the ratios I suggest and yeast and mash temps. Wait for the beer to be done. Then you can fine tune ONE aspect of the brew to get it closer to what you want. I know it is hard to wait. I know you have ideas you want to try, but you won't KNOW what item you changed had the biggest effect.

It may take you 4-5 times brewing this recipe to get it to where you like the flavors. Be patient.

I realize you cannot find the exact spices that were used, but try it at the amounts suggest first. Next brew you can then increase the amount to get to what YOU want from the flavors.

Half a pound of rice hulls should be plenty. Soak them in warm water before you add them to the mash. Otherwise they will absorb too much of the mash liquor and you may come up short in the kettle.

Malted wheat is milled along with the barley. No difference.

 

[crlova2]

Thanks a ton Wayne! I buy my ingredients from Austin Homebrew and they either have brewers 2 row or Pale ale malt. The recipe calls for pale 2 row. I am not sure which I should use. Is the brewers 2 row "pale" or is the "pale ale" malt what I am looking for?
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/index.php?cPath=178_21_71_110

 

[crlova2]

Also Wayne, when you say cut down on the fermentables what do you mean? Use less grain? Or mash lower? I thought when you mashed lower you got more fermentables...

 

[wildwest450]

Also Wayne, when you say cut down on the fermentables what do you mean? Use less grain? Or mash lower? I thought when you mashed lower you got more fermentables...

He means to cut down your og a bit. Your recipe is 1.056, he suggests, 1.050-1.053. Just cut out some of your base grain.

 

[crlova2]

Wildwest. What about the pale ale vs 2 row?

 

[Wayne1]

What about the pale ale vs 2 row?

Pale Ale malt IS two row.

In some cases it is just a brand name difference vs generic term. Such as Pepsi vs cola.

For most North American barley, there is very little difference between what is called pale ale and two row. There are some maltsters that increase the modification and toast it a bit to try to replicate English malted barley.

As far as this recipe is concerned, it doesn't matter very much.

Wildwest is correct. I would suggest lowering the overall gravity. You can do that by reducing just the malted barley or reduce all the grains to achieve the 1.050 to 1.053 OG.

 

[crlova2]

Alright so I am doing a 15 gallon batch of this during the labor day weekend. However I am doing ten gallons (post boil) of it in my keggle and the other 5 gallons in a 9 gallon brew pot. I am mashing everything together since I have a 19 gallon mash cooler. I was thinking about making the ten gallons a blue moon clone then using the other 5 and not adding corriander or orange peel and making a hoppy pale "wheat" ale. Any suggestions on what hops to use and whether I should still add the orange peel? Also suggestions on how to make sure my 20+ gallons of pre-boil wort is evenly mixed since I can't fit it all in one pot. Basically wanna make ten gallons of blue moon clone then 5 gallons of a hoppy pale ale using the same grain bill since I bought enough grain for a 15 gallon batch....

Thanks

 

[BeerBaronBob]

Hi Wayne:

Thanks for sharing all the great stuff here. I really appreciate the help you give to everyone. I have brewed a few PM "Blue Moon" batches before I saw your thread and probably came close to the Blue Moon - Honeymoon. I had used Belgium Abbey yeast in these batches along with honey.

The batches tasted great although as Im reading this thread I'm finding out the true recipe and can now try a real Blue Moon clone although I do not have the ability to do all grain yet. I do have a 10 gal Rubbermaid cooler that I have been doing several PM batches in and have a recipe I am going to brew in two days... making the starter tonight with 1056 American Ale.

Here is the recipe Im using for PM - My PM method starts with a PreBoil of approx 3 Gal of water, cooled to 70ish and into the sanitized 6 Gal glass carboy (about 2.5 Gal)

My wort Pre Boil volume is approx 3.5 Gal and ends with about 3 Gal of wort to end up with 5.5 Gal fermenting.

5.5 Gal Batch
2.5# - 2 Row Pale Malt - Rahr
1.5# - White Wheat Malt - Rahr
1.0# - Flaked Oats
0.5# Rice Hulls - (Soaked in Warm Water prior to adding to mash)

My LHBS used 3.3# of Northwestern Weisse LME to make up the rest of the fermentables in the wort boil.

Wyeast 1056 American Ale Chico - 2Qt starter 2 days prior to brew day

0.7 oz Hallertau Mittelfruh Hops (4% AAU) - Not sure this is the right amount. 75 Min

1 oz Ground Coriander and 0.325 oz Minced Sweet Valencia Orange Peel (McCormicks) as you suggest (3:1 Coriander)

I am using a 10 Gal Rubbermaid cooler so I am mashing the 5# grain with 6.25 Qts of Water at target 154F for 75 min (+ 3 Qts for Tun Loss and +2 Qts for Grain absorbtion for a total of 11.25 Qts)

Sparge with 8 Qts of Water to a target mash out temp of 168F for 10 Minutes

Clear wort volume from the mash tun into the kettle would be approx 14 Qts to get the remaining 12 Qts Post Boil

My question is about the Northwestern Weisse LME - Northwestern says their Weisse LME is 65% Red Wheat and 35% Barley. Do you think the Weisse LME is appropriate here or should I look at another supplier to get a 100% Pale Malt LME or one with less wheat malt or is there a base LME with White wheat instead of red wheat or am I worrying too much?

Best Regards,

BBB

 

[ekjohns]

Most wheat lme is 65% wheat. I looked for a difference between white and red and the difference seems to be Suttle. Dont use plain dme as that would not give you nearly enough wheat flavor. I would go ahead and use the red lme I think you will be fine. As always please post your result so we can all work at making this clone better

 

[BeerBaronBob]

ekjohns

I read your post about Oberon and I have to say I had a Bells Oberon on tap in Madison last week and was very impressed.

I have been doing a few Hefes lately, the last a classic Weihenstephan with a decoction mash. I could not place the flavors in the Oberon though after starting out with a Capital Oktoberfest.

After looking around I did not find many recipes so thanks. I will be trying that one next spring and will try to get a sixer to harvest the yeast for that batch. Did you find anybody that brewed this recipe yet?

I made the starter last night on the BM batch planned for tomorrow so Ill let you know how it turns out in 4 weeks. I did measure out my orange peel last night and found that the jar of peel looked like it had a small % of white bits mixed in with the darker shades of dried peel. I used a small fine mesh stainless steel strainer and the small white bit parts got caught in the strainer and the good outside peel parts went through. After sifting I came up with maybe a better quality of dried peel that I weighed out to 10 grams for my 5.5 gal batch

The jar of coriander I had was less than 1 oz and whole seeds so I need to get some more. I plan on grinding whole seeds in a coffee grinder to get the freshest flavor I can and I will use about 30 grams.

 

[ekjohns]

I never tried the oberon clone. I was going to and cultured yeast from only 2 bottles very successfully. It should be pretty easy to do. My problem was I had some oberon and some blue moon and after i opened the oberon I was not impressed so I opened a blue moon and did a taste comparison. Personally i liked the blue moon much more than the oberon so I decided to try and difference recipe. For me the side by said taste to me seemed like blue moon was a little sweeter and had more orange and corriander. I think the general base taste is the same with just more spices for blue moon. Try and use the recipe on here and tone it down for oberon (oberon yeast will go along way for cloning). Sorry i could not be of more help

 

[crlova2]

Is there a difference between Hallertauer Mittelfrueh hops and these http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_21_93_70&products_id=63

 

[wortmaker]

Thanks Wayne....worked like a charm.

I have to say that that is a fantastic recipe, and one I will make many more times. Since I followed your instructions and made it as you did once, now I can tweak it and know what affect it has on taste. Thanks again for all your input on this recipe - Bellyslide Belgian White.

very nice beer nicc and cloudy and beautiful head...I will def be brewing this one.....

 

[Wayne1]

Is there a difference between Hallertauer Mittelfrueh hops and these http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_21_93_70&products_id=63

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Hallertau_and_Hallertauer_hop_varieties

 

[BeerBaronBob]

I brewed the PM version yesterday and Ill update the recipe and volumes I used:

My Partial Mash method starts with a PreBoil of approx 2.5 Gal of water, cooled to 70ish and into the sanitized 6 Gal glass carboy (about 2 Gal) so I needed 3.25 gal post boil to get 5 total gal in to the carboy leaving 1Qt for trub loss.

My wort Pre Boil volume is approx 3.75 Gal and ends with about 3 Gal of wort to end up with 5.0 Gal fermenting.

Grains used for a 3.75 Gal PM Boil for 5.0 Gal Total Batch Size
2.5# - 2 Row Pale Malt - Rahr
1.5# - White Wheat Malt - Rahr
1.0# - Flaked Oats
0.5# Rice Hulls - (Soaked in Warm Water prior to adding to mash)

I ended up using at the initial boil
1/2# of Muntons Extra Light DME that I had leftover from the starter
1/2# of Muntons Weisse DME that I also had from a previous batch

Added 1.0 oz Hallertau Mittelfrueh Hops (3% AAU) for the last 60 Min of a 90 min boil - need to calculate the IBUs.

I waited to add the 3.3# of Northwestern Weisse LME until 45 minutes left in the boil to keep the color as light as possible.

I added 1 oz Ground Coriander for the last 10 Minutes

I added 0.325 oz Minced Sweet Valencia Orange Peel (McCormicks) at 5 Minutes (A 3:1 ratio)

I used a 10 Gal Rubbermaid cooler and ended up mashing in the 5# grain with 9 Qts of Water to get to the target of 154F for 75 min. 1.5 Qts/# would be only 7.5 Qts but I had to add extra hot water to get to the strike temp.

After waiting 90 minutes the temp was down to 146F so I re-calculated a sparge with 11.5 Qts of 190F strike water to get to 168F which I overshot just a little to 172F and had to add 1/2 qt of cold water to get to 168F which I held for 10 minutes before vorlaufing and lautering about 14 Qts of clear wort into the kettle.

I allowed +3 Qts for Tun Loss and +2 Qts for Grain absorbtion and a boil loss of 3 Qts for the 90 minute boil.

At 90 min I cooled in the large basement sink with a pre fill of cold water to initially cool to about 120F or so and then drained and refilled with cold water and I large bag of ice to get to 70. Into the new pre-santiized 6.5 gal carboy.

Hit 1.056 actually so I was a little surprised.

Pitched with
Wyeast 1056 American Ale Chico - 2Qt starter 2 days prior to brew day


Now bubbling away, smelled great in the kettle. Ill primary at 65-68F for 2 weeks and keg for about 2 weeks before trying it out.

 

[businesstime]

Here's mine from a couple months ago:

Personal notes: I used ~1.75 teaspoons McCormick valencia orange peel as per the advice of some others on this topic. It had a sour edge to it, which I think would have been cut had the attenuation not dried out so far (1.010). Next time, I'd cut back to 1.5 teaspoons (or switch to real orange peel) and try to mash higher. I also only had access to Mt. Hood hops and I'm not sure if that was a good sub for Hallertauer Mittelfrueh.

 

[crlova2]

Well I brewed a 15 gallon batch of this over the weekend but boiled 5 of it seperately. Ten was as Wayne's recipe reads and the other five I didn't add the spices but added 4 ounces of hops instead (amarillo, centennial, simco,and cascade all with 20 minutes or less in the boil). Anyways, I was hoping to get ~1.053 OG on this and only got 1.047 OG. I used basically the exact same method as my last beer where I got higher efficiency than planned and ended up with a higher OG than expected. This is my first time using wheat in an all grain recipe. Does wheat grain usually give a lower efficiency or did I probably just do something wrong?

 

[BeerBaronBob]

Well the Blue Moon like batch I made as a PM with Wheat LME turned out great. Color was a darker as expected but it was enjoyed with several friends at a fall picnic in October. I ended up fermenting in my primary for over 4 weeks at 67-69F and then in the keg for 2 weeks before serving.

I now have the equipment to do a full AG batch so I'm anxious to try the real recipe but first I tried a Hoegaarden like recipe as that has become the brew of choice recently around the house.

After trying a few in bottles recently I was really interested in the white color of the beer. My first 5 Gal AG batch was a recipe I cobbled together in Beersmith after reading about 10 or 15 recipes. I made this with the Forbidden Fruit yeast.

Wayne: Have you tried brewing any variations like a Hoegaarden ? I know you said you did not care for the Belgium yeast flavors. I wanted to try the true Belgium Wit style to compare to the Blue Moon so I will be doing this soon.

 

[passedpawn]

Wow, that a huge glass of beer. Or a HUGE picture.

 

[Wayne1]

BeerBaronBob,

It is going to be very hard to find a traditional Belgian Wit. Many years ago Hoegaarden was taken over by InBev and they started changing the recipe that was revived by Pierre Celis. Disgusted with what had been done to his beer, Pierre and his family went to Austin, TX to set up a brewery to make Witbier the "correct" way. I have met Pierre and drank witbier with him. It was very, very good.

As with a lot of breweries, there was money trouble. Miller acquired it and eventually closed the brewery and sold the equipment and name to Michigan Brewing Company.

Pierre is back in Belgian, in his home town of Hoegaarden. There have been rumors that InBev was going to close the plant in town. They were planning to switch production to a different plant and use "modern" techniques such as high gravity brewing to produce the beer for less expense.

You can try the InBev version of Hoegaarden, but it will not be Pierre's recipe. It will not be fresh and fresh is what witbier is all about.

I did very much like Celis White while it was made in Texas. I do prefer the cleaner taste of Blue Moon. That is just my preference. I do not care for sour, banana, clove or other sort of flavors in my beers. I tend to got for "cleaner" tastes of styles coming from the UK and Germany, with the exception of weiss.

My favorite style is IPA. The original Blue Moon was something I thought would be perfect to drink watching a baseball game. Light and refreshing with a touch of orange. No funky off flavors. It could be sold to people used to industrial lagers with no problems.

 

[nilo]

Wayne, from what we know of blue moon today by tasting it, how much you think the recipe have changed thru the years?
I'm asking that because the beer I taste today seems to have a darker color and more thickness that most recipes call for.
I have the recipe below fermenting right now and wondering what you think of it.

5gal batch
4# Briess 2 row
4# Flaked wheat
2# Briess white wheat malt
1/2# Carapils
1/4# Crystal 40L
1# Flaked oats
1# Rice hulls

Boil:
1oz Hallertauer for 60min
1/2oz cariander for 10min
2 chamomile tea begs for 10min

Fresh orange peel from 1 orange infused in vodka and into primary

Eff%=70, mashed at 158F.
Dry yeast S04 at 65F

OG=1.051
FG=1.015
ABV%=4.7
SRM=6
IBU=14

The taste and smell from fermenter are just fantastic

 

[ekjohns]

Im still holding to the belief that the current blue moon uses orange extract as opposed to orange peel. I know wayne used dried orange peel I feel this has changed as a cost cutting measure. The reason i think this is because every which way i have tried to introduce the orange flavor (dried vs fresh orange peel, care of zesting, different types of oranges) i always get a bitter orange peel taste that i dont get in blue moon. My next attempt with have extract added in primary

 

[ekjohns]

nilo - I also have been thinking blue moon has some crystal. Without it the color is much more pale and never gets that yellow orangy color. I also feel like all my versions have been less sweet but that could be problems with my mashing and temp control during ferm.

 

[Wayne1]

I'm not really sure where Blue Moon is being made these days. When it first was released, it was contract brewed at a few different locations. One of which Sam Adams now owns. It might be made in the MillerCoors Memphis plant. Although since the merger there are quite a few locations that Miller owned that might have had surplus production.

Blue Moon is very successful. It is now, most likely, brewed high gravity and blended (watered down) to keep production costs low. Brewing 250 bbl batches, I don't think they would use dried spices. They might use an extract to add both the coriander and orange flavor. I do not know this for sure, I am only speculating.

I have not drank any Blue Moon in well over two years. It is not what I would care to drink at this point in my life. As mentioned earlier, I prefer IPAs. If I go to a liquor store, I will buy a locally made IPA. At a restaurant, I would choose New Belgium's Fat Tire over Blue Moon. Although Ranger would be my first choice.

I have given you all the original Blue Moon recipe as was brewed at Coors Field when it was first released. I suggest you first brew it as posted. From that point, you can make whatever changes you wish to make suitable to your tastes.

Nilo,

I would suggest a different base grain from Briess. To my taste, Briess 2-row is very pale and bland. The Great Western Pale Ale might be a better choice. You might even look into using a European Vienna as a base malt. That might give you the additional body and color you are looking for.

Your recipe uses too much wheat. Just use the wheat malt. The flaked wheat will dry out the flavor and bleach out the color. 1 lb of rice hulls is twice as much as needed. I don't care for the flavor of chamomile, but it is your beer.

 

[MeanGreen]

Blue Moon Belgian White was first sold commercially as Belly Slide Belgian White at the SandLot Brewery at Coors Field during the 1995 opening season.

We did do a little fine tuning of the recipe, which was developed by Dr. Keith Villa of Coors R&D. Mostly to do with the ratio of Orange Peel to Corriander.

The amounts of grains we used are roughly:
50% 2 row pale malt. (The first couple of batches were made with Great Western)
40% white wheat malt
10% flaked oats.

Hallertauer Mittelfrueh hops were added for a 90 minute boil. Bittering should be around 17.5 IBU. Only one addition.

Blue Moon has always used pre-ground corriander and Valencia orange peel. Keith did not want the bitterness of Curacao oranges. He preferred the sweetness of the ground Valencia.

Try 1.25 tsp of ground corriander added to the kettle 10 minutes before the end of boil. This is for a 5-6 gallon batch.

Add 0.33tsp of ground Valencia orange peel 5 minutes before the end of boil.

The Chico strain would work well in this recipe. You want a neutral taste from the yeast. Keith has said that the flavors that should come through are the orange peel and corriander, not the yeast.

Be careful when lautering. I have made this recipe and some variations of it in three different pubs, with three different systems. I usually have trouble and end up sticking the mash. Run off very slowly.

Well I made a run at this


TYPE: All Grain


Recipe Specifications

Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.94 gal
Estimated OG: 1.058 SG
Estimated Color: 3.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 17.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 84.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:

Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU      
5 lbs 8.0 oz  Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)            Grain        50.00 %       
4 lbs 6.4 oz  White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM)                Grain        40.00 %       
1 lbs 1.6 oz  Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM)                    Grain        10.00 %       
1.50 oz       Hallertauer Hersbrucker [3.90 %]  (60 min)Hops         17.2 IBU      
3.00 tsp      Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 min)            Misc                       
3.00 tsp      Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 min)         Misc                       
1 Pkgs        SafBrew Ale (Yeast #S-05)             Yeast-Ale

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 11.00 lb

Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Step Time     Name               Description                         Step Temp     
120 min       Mash In            Add 3.41 gal of water at 167.8 F    152.0 F

The only tweaks which i feel were minor were the yeast, I didn't have time to get the chico strain up and running and the orange/coriander. Based on the results from the thread I upped the ratio.

Its getting kegged this week after a 3 week ferment, taste out of the hydrometer is fairly spot on. Thanks again Wayne. I know you are a stickler for a clone so I hope my variance isn't too far off

 

[Wayne1]

MeanGreen,

The grain bill, yeast and hops look great. The spices are a personal taste. I would have suggested brewing it first as written and then changing it to taste.

It is nice to sit back and say that. I know it is very hard to not want to put some personal touches on any recipe. Hell, I hardly ever brew my own recipes the same way twice in a row. Most of the time when I change a recipe it is because I do not have the exact same ingredients. I try to sub things that will get the same taste. I don't always succeed, but I do try.

My main contribution to the Blue Moon recipe was the ratio of coriander to sweet orange peel. I do realize that the same type of spices are not available today. The McCormick's orange peel seem to be the closest to the Valencia orange peel I used. I appreciate all the feedback from everybody who has brewed the recipe. With your help, perhaps we may be able to update it to fit what is available to homebrewers nowadays.