Bleach or TSP for cleaning bottles?

[brian_V]

Hi all.

I'm trying to clean a batch of bottles in preparation for bottling my first batch in real glass. Unfortunately, these bottles have sat in my garage with beer dregs in them for months, and so have mold and fuzzies etc. in them.

Last night, I spent a few hours with a bottle brush and various cleaners, trying to get them clean. I had very little success - for ~2h45m of work, I only got a few bottles as clean as I wanted them to be.

For starters, the bottle brush I bought at my LHBS is pretty much useless as there aren't many / any bristles to clean the bottom of the bottle. It does the sides OK... but when have you *ever* had to clean the sides and neck of the bottle?

At this point, I'm left with a bunch of bottles with 'scrubbed but not clean' bits of organic deposits on the bottoms of the bottles. How can I get them clean with what's around my house?

I am aware that most people use Oxiclean or PBW for this. Unfortunately, to get Oxiclean would be a 1hr+ drive which I'd rather not make just for that.

I've read that both bleach and TSP (real TSP - tri-sodium phosphate) work in dilute amounts to break down / dissolve organic deposits. However, it's not clear how long that takes, nor can I find much anecdotal support from people who have done it.

Since I have both of these around the house, my question is - has anyone used bleach or TSP for cleaning bottles? What did you do, and how did it work?

I currently have the bottles in a bleach solution. After 1.5 hours, there appears to be no change in the crusties yet.

 

[Poobah58]

Oxy-Clean soak...

 

[brian_V]

Oxy-Clean soak...

As I said above:

I am aware that most people use Oxiclean or PBW for this. Unfortunately, to get Oxiclean would be a 1hr+ drive which I'd rather not make just for that.

That is my long term plan, but it just isn't really doable today, unfortunately...

 

[SmokeyMcBong]

This guy uses dish soap and it seems to work.

I know people are gonna say not to use dish soap but if you need to get all the crap out and leave them clean (free of deposits and chunks) it'll work wonders. After that, make sure to soak again a couple of times in fresh water and then rinse well. Also make sure that you sanitize the bottles before you add any beer.

Also, I wouldn't recommend reusing the seals from the bottles if youre using swing tops.

good luck brother.

 

[NTXBrauer]

Seeing that you cannot get your hands on Oxiclean, try white vinegar if you have. Put a tablespoon or so in each bottle with some water and let set for some time. Then hit it with your bottle brush again. Good luck!

 

[Flboy]

I thought every town in USA had dollar general stores! They carry a knock off oxiclean-unsented.
If this next idea is bad- shoot it down, but in cleaning vinyl siding, a mix of detergent/bleach. 3rd cup detergent 2 cups bleach, prox gal of water. Gloves! Throw some in bottom of each bottle and soak for 30 min.
You really want a bottle washer for your faucet. I use mine outside.

 

[brian_V]

I thought every town in USA had dollar general stores! They carry a knock off oxiclean-unsented.
If this next idea is bad- shoot it down, but in cleaning vinyl siding, a mix of detergent/bleach. 3rd cup detergent 2 cups bleach, prox gal of water. Gloves! Throw some in bottom of each bottle and soak for 30 min.
You really want a bottle washer for your faucet. I use mine outside.

Unfortunately, I'm in rural Canada. Great in a lot of ways, not quite as great when you are looking for something specific in a hurry. Next time I'm in town, I'll buy Oxyclean, but that isn't an option today.

Sounds like the above recipe be my next test after I've eliminated TSP and bleach soaks.

 

[maclaren]

This guy uses dish soap and it seems to work.

I've been using this method to clean out recently used bottles/de-label since I started. Works every time!

 

[bleme]

Personally, I have tossed crusty bottles and started over. The sushi place down the road lets me have all the bottles I want. If I go at 10pm on a Friday night, I will usually get enough bottles for a whole batch, all freshly emptied.

I also use the jet bottle washer but a lot of people on here do ok with a bottle brush hooked up to their drill.

 

[seabass07]

Bleach will do it. Just make sure to rinse like crazy. Just let it soak overnight in fairly strong bleach.

 

[SmokeyMcBong]

Lets be realistic here people. its a glass bottle, he could clean it with anything he wanted. As long as the cleaner he uses can dissolve dried on solids, doesn't react with the glass itself and can be rinsed off. All this "everybody must use oxy-clean" or "PBW" is just nonesence. If you rinse off the cleaner properly, there is no way it can effect the taste, head, or mouth feel of your beverage. to think so is just nonesence!

Wash your bottles anyway you want brother, just make sure to rinse them very well after washing. Its just as important as the wash itself, maybe even more important depending on the cleaner used. And always make sure to sanitize your bottles before using them even though you already washed them. Clean and sanitized are not the same thing.

Do you think that they used "oxy-clean" or "PBW" back in the day?? I come from a small port town in very rural Newfoundland. I have drank some of the best beer ever made (thats right, EVER MADE) there as a teen and I can guarantee that the 90 year old man that made said best beer ever has never used anything except dish soap and bleach to clean his bottles. You know how I know that? Because the 90 year old man learned to brew from his dad, who learned from his dad, who learned from his dad. And that guy had no friggen clue what "oxy-clean" or "pbw" was!!

Don't get caught up in the hype OP, clean your bottles and rinse well then sanitize and bottle away. Have fun bro.

 

[Kirkwooder]

Sand works wonders for nasty carboys. I don't know how it will work in something as small as a bottle though. I have also used compressed air and a long blow gun nozzle. You could also give Hydrogen Peroxide a try. It's about the same thing as Oxiclean. The oxi works best when disolved in really hot water so you might try heating the peroxide!

Just some thoughts off the top of my head.

 

[brian_V]

Wow, you guys are awesome. I was expecting to check back this afternoon for a reply or two. I wasn't expecting to hit page 2 within an hour... I'm going to try a few of the things here and see what works.

 

[brian_V]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUfA3Kp4W2w This guy uses dish soap and it seems to work.

I know people are gonna say not to use dish soap but if you need to get all the crap out and leave them clean (free of deposits and chunks) it'll work wonders. After that, make sure to soak again a couple of times in fresh water and then rinse well. Also make sure that you sanitize the bottles before you add any beer.

Also, I wouldn't recommend reusing the seals from the bottles if youre using swing tops.

good luck brother.

The problem with this video is regardless of the cleaning solution, his brush is doing that majority of the work agitating away the nasties. His brush is more useful than mine. Despite being similar in appearance, with mine, the steel center wire hits the bottom of the bottle before any bristles do. A few bristles lightly make contact with the bottom with their sides. The majority of the cleaning my brush does to the bottom is from the steel end scraping an area clear in the center of the bottle.

The bottles are approaching 3 hours in the bleach soak. The bleach does appear to be removing / eating away at the deposits - the larger bits have broken loose, but there is still some scum on the bottoms. Gonna give it a few more hours.

This is after long dish soap soaking / scrubbing last night, and sitting wet overnight.

With respect to the hydrogen peroxide suggestion, I did test that with a bottle last night, but it didn't seem to have any effect. I wonder if the 3% solution I have is perhaps too weak to do the job. It's made for cleaning cuts, not removing the organic matter making up the cuts...

 

[brewbama]

I've used diluted bleach with great success.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[slarkin712]

I would definitely try the diluted TSP. It's great for cleaning "gunk" off kitchen cabinets. And it will dissolve easily, thus it will rinse cleanly. Just make sure to wear gloves.

 

[SmokeyMcBong]

if the bits aren't loosing up, try more bleach and more time. some dry particles have a greater resistance to moisture. they will take more time to absorb the moisture and become soft enough to let go of the bottle.

Something to try though, when my bongs get very dirty (theyre all zig zagg shaped) I use salt and liquid inside. the salt acts as an abrasive carried by the liquid while I shake the bong. Works wonders and will most probably work for you and your bottles for the really stubborn stuff.

good luck bro

 

[Kirkwooder]

You can also take a pair of pliers and bend the very end of your bottle brush so that some of the bristles are sticking down. Not so much that you cant get the brush in the bottle but just enough to get a few more bristles doing what they are supposed to be doing!

 

[brian_V]

Ok - update: The bleach is looking for promising now that it's been 3-4 hours. However, on a hunch, I tossed one of my wife's dishwasher tabs into the sink with about ~1gal of hot water, then filled a few fresh scuzzy bottles frmo the garage. After about 15 minutes, I gave them a quick shake / swirl with my thumb over the mouth of the bottle, and most of the scuzzies came right off.

I suspect I'll need to rinse the living snot out of these bottles to get all the rinse aids etc from the dishwasher pacs off the bottles, but it appears to be making quick work of the mold blobs.

Edit: After another 10-or so minutes, I did the old 'thumb-and-shake', and I have a few spotless bottles, and a few with minor, hard-to-see spots yet. The product is Cascade Action Tabs: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BGBNES/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[beercurious]

Another trick I've used cleaning glass vases and coffee carafes that may work here... crush some ice and put it in the bottle with a teaspoon or so of baking soda. Same effect as the salt and water piece - ice acts as scrubber, baking soda is safe and most people have some on hand. Good luck!

 

[brian_V]

And re-update:

The bleach finally did the trick after ~5 hours, on bottles that were scrubbed and had already soaked all night.

The dishwasher tab, however, blows me away be comparison. I put the scuzziest bottles I could find in the solution at 11:15AM my time. I agitated them at 11:45, noticed all kinds of scuzz already lifted off and floating. I was in a meeting until 12:40, but by the time I checked them again at 12:45, a simple shake-and-swirl, dump and rinse, and the bottles are sparkling clean. It didn't do much to the label glue, but that's easier to take care of IMO than dissolving the chunks inside the bottles.

 

[Flboy]

The dishwasher tabs conferm what I suggested. They are detergent, and if old enough, contain phosphates! Great cleaning. Detergent rinses much easier than soap. The detergent is a weting agent and it lets the bleach do its job.

 

[Flboy]

So cool, rural Canada!! I love the internet(yes, so far off topic, beer and kids causes that) 40 years ago I worked in Guy,Alberta, so I understand what you mean. FYI, you just inspired me to risk mid fl weather(50ish F) to toughin up and go outside and finish cleaning my bottles for 2mro!
Thank You for a reality check!!

 

[SmokeyMcBong]

you just inspired me to risk mid fl weather(50ish F) to toughin up and go outside and finish cleaning my bottles for 2mro!
Thank You for a reality check!!

I hope you put on your touque and mittens lol.