Bleach = No Rinse Sanitizer in a pinch

[Germelli1]

I did A LOT of research on the topic, and then some testing. I have always used chlorine bleach to soak bottles I get from an outside source...especially corona bottles that had lemon or lime slices sitting in the bottles. Then I follow with an oxy clean soak, rinse and soap-free dishwasher cycle. I found out from my research that chlorine in tap water evaporates overnight out of large quantities of water.

I also found that the chlorine in bleach evaporates out very quickly; reducing the sanitizing capacity on long term soaks. So this got the wheels spinning in my head, "could I use a bleach solution that evaporates quickly enough to leave no flavors in my beer while still sanitizing."

So I hit the web in hardcore research mode. I scoured some of the debates on this forum, as well as read some statements made by the inventor of starsan, Charlie Tally. I admit following a link from another member here to Charlie's podcast helped seal the deal.

From my research I found that using 2 drops of bleach in 1 pint of contaminated water renders it potable.

For sanitizing my equipment, 2 tablespoons of chlorine bleach in 5 gallons of water yields the perfect ratio of sanitizer to water. This solution has a required contact time of 30 seconds to kill many microbes, major ones listed below. The amount of bleach in the solution is not enough to detect taste and can be used without rinsing. Charlie Tally also recommends adding the same quality vinegar as bleach to the solution to ensure that the pH of the solution is low enough to be effective. HOWEVER ADD THE VINEGAR AFTER THE BLEACH HAS BEEN DILUTED, OR YOU RISK RELEASING TOXIC CHLORINE GAS

These are some of the microbes the bleach will kill. No AIDS in my beer!

Bacteria
Staphylococcus aureus (Staph), Salmonella choleraesuis, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Streptococcus pyogenes (Strep), Escherichia coli 0157:H7 (E. coli), Shigella dysenteriae

Fungi
Trichophyton mentagrophytes (Athlete's Foot), Candida albicans (yeast)

Viruses
Rhinovirus (Cold virus), Influenza A2 (Flu virus), Hepatitis A, Rotavirus
Respiratory Syncytial virus, HIV-1 (Human Immunodeficiency Virus)*
Herpes simplex virus 2, Rubella virus, Adenovirus Type 2, Cytomegalovirus

My own testing has only extended far enough as sanitizing bottles. I sanitized half with the dishwasher (sterilized), and half with the bleach solution. There are absolutely 0 differences in taste. In fact rinsine with unboiled water would only reintroduce infectious materials to the sanatized surfaces.

I have two batches in fermenters that were sanitized with bleach solutions now and can report back with those when they are done.



Ok now that my research has bee prevented let me say this. I never planned to use bleach as a full time sanitizer. I have been waiting to add in some starsan with my next online order since I can only get cleansers around here. But I have found every bit of equipment, pounds and pounds of hops and hundreds of pounds of grains on craigslist, so I have not yet needed to order anything from online vendors.

So hopefully anyone stuck in a situation where they need to brew but have no sanitizer, or people in remote locations can find this info helpful.

Most useful sources:
http://www.clothing4all.com/bleach_disinfectant.html
http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr03-29-07.mp3

 

[Wolfy]

I clean my gear in sodium percarbonate (and a drop of dishwashing liquid), disinfect them in acidified bleach (rinse in hot water if using straight away, or drain/store unrinsed) then use StarSan as a sanitizer just prior to use.

I've seen calculations showing that if you drip dry and drain bleach solutions the amount left behind is so minimal to below any taste threashold, however, dedicated sanitizers like StarSan are easy and economical to use ... so I do.

 

[Germelli1]

Exactly, I just use the bleach to get by, but I have seen a lot of unfounded advice against using bleach so I wanted to present my research and little testing I did so people realize it can be used.

Even the inventor of starsan reccomends using it.

 

[dogtailale]

Thanks for that link

 

[malkore]

but does 'potable water' mean it doesn't contain any acetobacter, lactobacillis, etc type bugs?

Considering some people's tap water has enough chloramine to ruin their beer, I wouldn't trust un-rinsed bleach, period.
Its not worth the risk to me.

 

[rico567]

I used bleach before my eyes were opened to Star San. Sure, bleach is an effective sanitizer, particularly if it's been acidified with vinegar as described. But Star San is so superior when used for brewing that the only way I'd go back to bleach would be that SS wouldn't be available.

 

[musick]

I have sworn by 1:1:5 (oz/oz/gal) dilution for my glass for the past 10 years with zero infections to date. Id have to look at my records, but it is likely close to 1800-2000 gallons.

I must admit I do rinse after 60 sec. contact.

My thought RE: bleach is that many people use it incorrectly. I always buy in the smallest vol. I can find as it does degrade once open, and your measurements MUST be exact. A lot depends on what is in your tap H20, but I always have rinsed. YMMV.


Regardless, if you have never had an infection using StarSan, Bleach, Iodophor, Autoclave....whatever, you are doing things right.

Dont worry...have a homebrew!

 

[Germelli1]

but does 'potable water' mean it doesn't contain any acetobacter, lactobacillis, etc type bugs?

Considering some people's tap water has enough chloramine to ruin their beer, I wouldn't trust un-rinsed bleach, period.
Its not worth the risk to me.

It has the same sanatizing capacities as any homebrew-specific sanatizer.

My tap water has a lot of chlorine. I can't decipher my water report well enough to know if it has chloromites. So just in case I put 8-9 gallons in my fermentation buckets or brew kettle to sit out over night uncovered. I also add half a camden tablet to it to take care of chloromites if they are in there.

 

[spssps15]

I was listening to a podcast (can't remember which one now), but the guy
who invented Star San (I believe it was) was discussing his sanitizers.
Rather that completely shilling for his own products, he gave quite an in
depth talk about the benefits of a homemade concoction (can't remember if
he went as far as to say it was as good as his own product).

Anyway, he said to take 5 gallons of cool water, add 1 oz. of bleach. Mix
well, and then add 1 oz. of vinegar (Obviously, he warned strongly against
mixing the vinegar and bleach together!). He said that in two minutes of
contact, that this would do as good of a job of sanitizing as most
commercial no-rinse products.
Sanitizing Equipments Manufacturer

 

[rico567]

I was listening to a podcast (can't remember which one now), but the guy
who invented Star San (I believe it was) was discussing his sanitizers.
Rather that completely shilling for his own products, he gave quite an in
depth talk about the benefits of a homemade concoction (can't remember if
he went as far as to say it was as good as his own product).

Anyway, he said to take 5 gallons of cool water, add 1 oz. of bleach. Mix
well, and then add 1 oz. of vinegar (Obviously, he warned strongly against
mixing the vinegar and bleach together!). He said that in two minutes of
contact, that this would do as good of a job of sanitizing as most
commercial no-rinse products.
Sanitizing Equipments Manufacturer

Yep. Charlie Talley's podcast. He recommends acidifying the bleach (adding acetic acid, aka vinegar) because bleach by itself isn't that great as a sanitizer, just pretty much good for what it's sold as, lightening up your laundry. And, yes, under no circumstances add vinegar directly to the bleach, which will make it energetically start evolving chlorine gas, and you'll feel like a British trooper at Ypres in 1915 during the first German gas attacks. Just mix up the bleach / water solution, then add the vinegar, and you're good. I used this for my first half-dozen batches or so, until I discovered Star San. Star San is so effective and economical, though (and it won't make spots on your clothes), I've never looked back.

 

[audger]

when people say "bleach", which chemical are we all talking about here? the element chlorine? or sodium hipochlorite? because most "bleaches" like chlorox are the latter, though when you say bleach to someone they normally think 'chlorine bleach', when there is no actual elemental chlorine in most of them.

also, how come i never see many people mention using hydrogen peroxide as a sanitizer? it cleans and disinfects just as well but doesnt have that bleach smell/taste that i can easily pick out, even in city tap water concentrations. hydrogen peroxide leaves no residue once it decomposes into hydrogen and oxygen on its own, and is less hazardous to work with than bleach.

and fun fact- if you mix the two (sodium hipochlorate and hydrogen peroxide) you generate salt water and oxygen gas, which is what i plan to use when i make a wort oxygenator sometime in the future.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Yeah, plain old Chlorox (or whatever brand you choose).

Been using it since I started brewing, never had band-aid flavors. I do rinse.

The hassle of having to get Starsan is not worth it to me. LHBS is 30 minutes across town, and they are open only while I work.

But like others have said... whatever works.

M_C

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Apparently the inventor of Star-San is a rather big fan of bleach as a sanitizer and even claims it is indeed "no-rinse" if you follow his specific guidelines, but I must warn you that there is a potentially hazardous twist within his instructions. Listen to this podcast starting at about the 9 minute mark and extending through to about the 22 minute mark. The actual interview begins at about the 10:30 minute mark, but listen from the 9 minute mark to hear the warnings. I have no idea as to the validity of what you are about to hear. Click on the podcast link below:

https://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/3/9/0/39...29802409&hwt=6e9d53b9d036fc5ab1eee752a6f8ac91

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

PS: If you're wondering why I posted the above to this, an old thread discussing the bleach topic, rather than posting it to my current 'CDC Guidelines' bleach thread, the above is not from the CDC, and has nothing to do with the CDC.