Black Treacle vs Blackstrap Molasses

[rmclark12]

TL;DR - they are not the same
I was looking to brew Jamil's "Old Treacle Mine" old ale recipe from Brewing Classic Styles, which calls for 8 oz black treacle. Problem is, I'm in the rural US, and black treacle (or the golden syrup for that matter) just isn't a thing here. So I got to googling to see if some type of molasses would work in place of it. That was no help at all. I got answers ranging from black treacle is the same as blackstrap, the same as full flavor molasses, the same as mild molasses, to not anything like any of those. What I could find seemed to indicate the process is a bit different. What I couldn't find was anyone saying they'd actually tasted black treacle and (name your molasses product) and they are the same, or they are different and here's how. Well, that's what this is. I ordered some treacle from amazon and picked up some blackstrap from the supermarket to see if they were the same, or at least close enough to substitute in a 5 gal batch of beer. I was not able to find full flavor, and I left out mild just based on color, so it's just these two for now.
Consistency: Blackstrap is much thinner than treacle. Blackstrap was like a thin pancake syrup, and poured easily out of the bottle. Treacle was about like liquid malt extract, with a "chewy" quality. It would take a long time to pour this out of a bottle, which is I guess why it's in a can. The picture doesn't show this very well unfortunately.
Color: Same, just a dark impenetrable black.
Taste: The basic flavor is the same, but the blackstrap is much sharper/stronger. Like the difference between medium cheddar and sharp cheddar. Same taste, just much stronger/sharper. I can't really describe the flavor itself because there is nothing like either of them. Sorry. If I was eating it by the spoonful (and I may) I'd take treacle everytime.
Conclusion: I think you could use blackstrap in place of black treacle in a beer, just reduce the amount by 1/4 to 1/2.
I'l be trying two batches, one with 8 oz black treacle, and one with 6 oz blackstrap. I'll also be picking up some mild to compare, and keeping an eye out for full flavor (which i think will be the best match), so i'll update with any further findings.
Any thoughts or input from other's is appreciated.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

I've used both but haven't compared the resulting beers. I used black treacle in an Old Peculier clone and blackstrap in a nut brown. I'd be curious to hear your results.

 

[bobeer]

Thanks for posting this!

 

[breckenridge]

Subbed. Interested to see how this comes out.

 

[rmclark12]

Update:
I did side by side batches as follows. Only difference was 6 oz Blackstrap Molasses in one vs 8 oz black treacle in the one below:

Boil = 90 min

9 lb Light DME
8 oz Black Treacle (5 min)
8 oz Victory Malt
3.3 oz C120
3.4 oz Belgian De-Bittered Black Malt
6.6 oz C60

.9 oz Nugget 14.9% (60 min)

1 tsp Irish Moss (10 min)

So these beers are pretty young (2 wks primary, 2 weeks secondary, 2 wks bottled). They both taste pretty much the same, which I guess is a win. But they both taste terrible. Not undrinkable, but my standards are pretty low. The aftertaste is so strong, it ruins the beer. I will never brew another beer with Blackstrap or Black Treacle, but if you absolutely must, I wouldn't go more than 2 oz of either. If you want a WTF factor, an ounce or two will do that, any more will overpower the beer is my guess. Time will tell, maybe it will mellow, and I'll update 6 months or so from now.

 

[Paps]

Update:
They both taste pretty much the same, which I guess is a win. But they both taste terrible..

Lol...

Yeah, that does seem like a pretty hefty amount of treacle/blackstrap.
I once made a molasses wine that if i remember right was blackstrap and i have to admit it was a unique flavor.......that i thought sucked.
Perhaps it's a flavor that grows on you eventually if you eat enough of it.
Or perhaps it's just that British people eat weird stuff.....after all they do like eating marmite.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

Don't be too quick to judge. Give it some time. The two brews I did used 8 oz treacle and molasses, respectively. Both were pretty strong initially bit mellowed out nicely.

 

[CavA3R4]

Wait! let it age.
I made a stout once and added a whole 16 oz jar of Blackstrap molasses, and 1-1/2 pound of oatmeal and a pound of DARK Ghieardeli chocolate to an IMPERIAL stout recipe.
in 9 MONTHS it was AWESOME..
Bottle conditioned in the dark in the basement on the floor where the temp was 56 to 62 degrees year round.

 

[rmclark12]

Good to hear from the patient people that this may age well. I'm shelving it for at least 6 months, maybe a year, which is not a problem since I have no desire to drink it right now.

 

[Jounce12]

Any aged beer taste test update?

 

[smata67]

Agree, would be nice to know results.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

One difference between Blackstrap Molasses and Treacle (among potentially many) is that the former is known to be a very rich source for iron. Iron is not something you want in beer, and (if present) you can't age it out. Treacle (made from sugar which has little to no iron) will have little to no iron. If treacle doesn't taste quite as rank as blackstrap molasses, it may well be due to the taste of the iron in the blackstrap.

 

[smata67]

It appears that they both have very similar iron content, about 3 mg/TBLSP . Based on reading posts, including some bakers, many believe the Lyles may be smoother, less harsh and better tasting overall.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I wouldn't have guessed that. If you make your own Invert #4 and start with refined table sugar, it shouldn't have much if any iron in it. I wonder how Lyle's is making it?

 

[microbusbrewery]

For anyone that is also having a hard time finding Black Treacle locally, I ordered some from Goodwoods British Market out of Texas. I believe there was a minimum order requirement, but they shipped free and at the time I was ordering, they were much cheaper than what it was selling for on Amazon. Their shipping wasn't quite as fast as Amazon, but I think I had it within 5 days from ordering.

https://goodwoods.com/

 

[smata67]

That is an unbeatable price. Will be doing Jamil's recipe soon. Also got me some Patak's Brinjal relish. That will not be going in the beer, though.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Just to add to the conversation, but why use either of these? If trying to make classic english styles, then stay away from these ingredients. Years ago, when ingredient access/knowledge/etc, these ingredients were basically "hacks" that were offered to try and get as close as one could at the time to brewing these styles of beers.

Fortunately, largely driven by the huge amount of research by Ron Pattinson at http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/, true/accurate recipes and ingredients are now known and largely available. Additionally, many of the recipes that are using these (treacle or molasses) are (more or less) trying to approximate flavors from brewing invert sugars. With very little time (~30 minutes), some raw sugar, a little acid, heat, (and occassionally a "dash" of blackstrap molasses) you can get the results you're really after!

 

[smata67]

Wow! Shipped same day as ordered. Good thing, as I'm usually impatient about the beers I have to age for 6 or more months!

Why use the treacle? Because that is what is specified in Jamil's Old Ale recipe. And he has never let me down. Also, I figure I can make some gingerbread cookies with the leftovers.

 

[Stand]

My understanding is that all of these products are the same except the concentration of sugar is higher or lower.

Blackstrap is very harsh because it is highly concentrated (less sugar) than the rest. More flavor, though.

Thickness is about water content.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Well, now I understand why Lyle's Black Treacle and Blackstrap Molasses share the same iron content. A look at the bottom front of the Lyle's tin states that it is made from cane Molasses. I now presume that all they do is partially invert molasses.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

AIUI black treacle is a 1:1 mix of refiner's syrup (darker than golden, I guess the liquid equivalent of invert #2) and cane molasses.

When I looked a while back, most of the big North American cities seemed to have a "British expat"-type store or website where you could buy golden syrup and treacle (and Marmite of course, won't hear a word against the second-best thing to come out of Burton - aside from all the vitamins it's such a concentrated source of umami that it transforms meat sauces) much more cheaply than other sources across the pond. Both are store-cupboard staples over here, they cost about US$1.75/lb inc tax, similar to other high-end sugars like muscovado.

Although syrup and treacle were widely used in the past as readily-available homebrew hacks to approximate invert, particularly by Graham Wheeler, treacle does get used a little bit on a commercial basis, for bigger beers such as Fuller's Imperial Stout. ISTR they tweeted a picture of quarter of a tonne in buckets lined up waiting to go in that beer.

Also worth noting that the historical trade from the West Indies into Liverpool has led to a whole subset of cooking in northern England using these darker sugars, such as parkin which is the cake equivalent of a winter warmer beer, it's lovely.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Here's a YouTube video of a guy making homemade Black Treacle from standard/refined granulated white table sugar. It shouldn't have much (if any) iron in it.