Black IPA....oxymoron?

[thataintchicken]

stupid question.

for purposes of competition... what BJCP category would this be?
Thinking 23 Specialty.

not like I'd ever make and enter a NW beer or anything

 

[thataintchicken]

I prefer Cascadia Dark Ale, as I live in the Republic of Cascadia and if indeed PNW brewers invented this then let's give them their props!

Here's the recipe I made up... centennial hops to represent washington, willamette and cascade hops represent oregon, and the california yeast since northern cali is part of Cascadia.

spooky. we think very similarly.

 

[babalu87]

Imperial Black Ale

 

[dunnright00]

Imperial Black Ale

This, or Imperial Dark Ale.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

As a resident of the Republic of Cascadia I'm biased...CDA it is for me...I've seen this "Imperial" Dark/Black/etc Ale mentioned before..What's so "Imperial" about it? Trying to understand where that one is coming from...

Chicken...Specialty it is for the BJCP style. But make sure you put that it's a Cascadian Dark Ale. If the BJCP sees more and more of these it will help the style to become "official"

 

[thataintchicken]

As a resident of the Republic of Cascadia I'm biased...CDA it is for me...I've seen this "Imperial" Dark/Black/etc Ale mentioned before..What's so "Imperial" about it? Trying to understand where that one is coming from...

Chicken...Specialty it is for the BJCP style. But make sure you put that it's a Cascadian Dark Ale. If the BJCP sees more and more of these it will help the style to become "official"

cool.
I made one of these a year ago, just because I was bored and had some black patent laying around. Surfing some PDX beer blogs, I have seen that it is indeed a growing style. I have a batch getting ready now alongside a batch of American Brown Ale.

I did a batch of Black Wit last year as well. I might have to revisit it.

 

[Edcculus]

As a resident of the Republic of Cascadia I'm biased...CDA it is for me...I've seen this "Imperial" Dark/Black/etc Ale mentioned before..What's so "Imperial" about it? Trying to understand where that one is coming from...

Chicken...Specialty it is for the BJCP style. But make sure you put that it's a Cascadian Dark Ale. If the BJCP sees more and more of these it will help the style to become "official"

Not to get too much into naming conventions, but I highly doubt this style will get officially named "Cascadian" by the BJCP. As more brewers and breweries start making them over the years, I'm sure the eventual name will turn out to be more along the lines of "American Dark Ale". Most beer names try to describe the type of beer. "Cascadian" is nowhere close to a description. American would account for high amounts of American hops. Dark Ale would designate a relatively clean ale using a clean American yeast.

 

[pompeiisneaks]

I just had some black ipa at a local brewpub in Rochester NY, very yummy, hoppy but strong roasted flavors too, I'm guessing a lot of black patent malt, but wow, so good.



Their Saison isn't much to complain about either

 

[thataintchicken]

As more brewers and breweries start making them over the years, I'm sure the eventual name will turn out to be more along the lines of "American Dark Ale". Most beer names try to describe the type of beer. "Cascadian" is nowhere close to a description. American would account for high amounts of American hops. Dark Ale would designate a relatively clean ale using a clean American yeast.

localization perhaps.
There is a term for localized wine that escapes me... terroir or some such.

 

[pompeiisneaks]

Terroir means terror, territoire means territory, in french at least

 

[Edcculus]

Terroir is really a term in wine making to designate how the earth literally effects the taste of specific varietals of grapes. The closest thing to Terroir in beer would be Belgian Lambic breweries. So far, only Sierra Nevada is doing a total Estate beer.

 

[jmo88]

As much as I would like to see CDA be used for this, I think that widmer ruined that opportunity with the pitch black IPA. A Portland brewery didn't even use the term cascadia.

 

[thataintchicken]

Terroir is really a term in wine making to designate how the earth literally effects the taste of specific varietals of grapes. The closest thing to Terroir in beer would be Belgian Lambic breweries. So far, only Sierra Nevada is doing a total Estate beer.

thanks.
I'm sure if I didn't have a couple of pints in me, I'd remember the exact term I was looking for.

 

[Edcculus]

thanks.
I'm sure if I didn't have a couple of pints in me, I'd remember the exact term I was looking for.

No worries. I've had a few also, so I'm feeling a little fiesty. I'm from the exact opposite end of the US (Charleston SC). So whats with this "Cascadian" moniker? Something to do with the Cascades? Northwestern US? Just don't get it entirely. Sounds like some Tolkein ****.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

Not to get too much into naming conventions, but I highly doubt this style will get officially named "Cascadian" by the BJCP. As more brewers and breweries start making them over the years, I'm sure the eventual name will turn out to be more along the lines of "American Dark Ale". Most beer names try to describe the type of beer. "Cascadian" is nowhere close to a description. American would account for high amounts of American hops. Dark Ale would designate a relatively clean ale using a clean American yeast.

Just to play with this a little...How many INDIA Pale Ale's are brewed in India? How many RUSSIAN Imperial Stouts are brewed in Russia?

Cascadian describes the region in which the style was developed and hopefully refined. It also reflects the hops used in the brew (Northwest Hops used).

Chicken is on the right track...It's like an appellation in the wine world. I think CDA does much more for the history, sparks conversation, and doesn't sound "oxymoronic" like Black IPA.

Taken from a press release from Abram Goldman-Armstrong:

an alliance of militant Northwest hop flavors as powerful as Cascadia's coniferous forests, and roasty malts as black as the rubber boots Cascadians don from September to June, (and brewers wear year round).

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

As much as I would like to see CDA be used for this, I think that widmer ruined that opportunity with the pitch black IPA. A Portland brewery didn't even use the term cascadia.

Our Brewmasters' Release - Pitch Black IPA is a Pacific Northwest twisted tribute to an IPA style of beer. It is almost a traditional IPA but it is instead brewed to the emerging style of Cascadian Dark.

Again, stolen from another source, but it's better than I'd do on my own:

A Cascadian Almanac:
Boundaries: Cascadia stretches from the redwood forests of Northern California to the craggy coastal islands of northern British Columbia and east to the foothills of the Rocky Mountains.

Flag: a Douglas Fir rampant on a horizontal tri-color of Blue, white, and green
Official Animal: Chinook salmon.
Official Tree: Western Red Cedar
National Costume: Rubber boots, blue jeans, t-shirt, hoodie. Carhartts, polar fleece, and gore-tex also figure prominently in Cascadian attire.

 

[thataintchicken]

It's like an appellation in the wine world.

thats the term I was looking for.
I blame the yummy milk stout and it's vocabulary limiting properties.

 

[Edcculus]

Just to play with this a little...How many INDIA Pale Ale's are brewed in India? How many RUSSIAN Imperial Stouts are brewed in Russia?

Cascadian describes the region in which the style was developed and hopefully refined. It also reflects the hops used in the brew (Northwest Hops used).

Chicken is on the right track...It's like an appellation in the wine world. I think CDA does much more for the history, sparks conversation, and doesn't sound "oxymoronic" like Black IPA.

Taken from a press release from Abram Goldman-Armstrong:

Both India Pale Ale and Russian Imperial Stout were both terms used to describe beers developed in Britian for export to those specific markets. IPA for exprot to India, and RIS for export to the Russian Imperial family. They do not reflect the region in which they were developed. I've said all along that "Black IPA" is stupid.

National Costume: Rubber boots, blue jeans, t-shirt, hoodie. Carhartts, polar fleece, and gore-tex also figure prominently in Cascadian attire.

Minus the rubber boots, I don't see any difference in the Appalachia.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

Ah ha!!! But Appalachia didn't come up with the style!!!!

 

[WIP]

Cascadia. I think it will pick up. Sort of the way that German beers aren't brewed exclusively in Germany, but with german hops and other german characteristics.

 

[slouch]

I know I am jumping in way down the line in the conversation, but how about Rocky Mountain Mud?

 

[cheezydemon3]

I like American Dark Bitter.

Since when did beer lovers participate in the deuchy "east coast-west coast" debate?

If we get too into "where" a beer was developed or refined, this will all devolve into an unsolveable argument.

 

[jmo88]

I like American Dark Bitter.

Since when did beer lovers participate in the deuchy "east coast-west coast" debate?

If we get too into "where" a beer was developed or refined, this will all devolve into an unsolveable argument.

Right, like the North-South distinction between English browns. Or how about Irish stouts. Pilsner. Bavarian Hefe. Irish Red. White Labs has regional specific yeasts like East Coast ale and Pacific Ale.

I suppose it only seems douchey if you're not in the PNW. We need all the claim to fame we can get, our weather really sucks.

 

[Willie3]

... and doesn't sound "oxymoronic" like Black IPA.

Not sure why this is "oxymoronic". Black (Dunkel) Hefeweisens aren't considered "oxymoronic". I guess it is determined on what one interprets the word "Pale" to mean, is it the color of beer or the majority of the type of base malt used?

-WW

 

[Edcculus]

Not sure why this is "oxymoronic". Black (Dunkel) Hefeweisens aren't considered "oxymoronic". I guess it is determined on what one interprets the word "Pale" to mean, is it the color of beer or the majority of the type of base malt used?

-WW

Dunkelwiezen literally means "dark wheat beer". You don't refer to them as "Black Hefeweizen". Even if you did, Hefe translates as yeast. There is nothing in that name that infers color. I believe "pale" in terms of Pale Ale or IPA does refer to the actual color, not the type of malt. Even the blackest of stouts use pale malt as a base.

 

[weirdboy]

I heard someone else use the term "India Black Ale" which I think describes the style perfectly.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Right, like the North-South distinction between English browns. Or how about Irish stouts. Pilsner. Bavarian Hefe. Irish Red. White Labs has regional specific yeasts like East Coast ale and Pacific Ale.

I suppose it only seems douchey if you're not in the PNW. We need all the claim to fame we can get, our weather really sucks.

Ireland is a country. Clear it up any?

Despite your elite status as someone who happens to live where you do, we live in the same country. I feel that most styles were probably developed over in this end of the country, maybe because, as you imply, the weather sucks, so we don't have much to do outside! Can't remember the last time I went outside except going to or from the car!lol.

But you do not hear me saying that we should go back and re-name anything do you?

Also, I could make a Dark IPA with all English Hops. Do I then get to name that style? since it is not cascadian?

 

[evsjeep527]

I had a Victory Yakima Twilight for the first time last Friday at Victory in Downingtown. This was the first time I've ever had this style and I must say I was blown away. :rockin:

I've been going back and forth on what to make for my second official batch of beer and noticed northernbrewer.com has a Black IPA listed. What are your opinions on this ingredient list:

Grains
- 0.25 lbs Dehusked Carafa III
- 0.25 lbs Chocolate Malt
- 0.5 lbs Briess Caramel 80
Fermentables
- 3.15 lbs Dark malt syrup (60 min)
- 6 lbs Dark malt syrup late addition (15 min)
- 1 lb Corn Sugar late addition (0 min)
Hops and Flavoring
- 1 oz Summit (60 min)
- 1 oz Simcoe (15 min)
- 1 oz Centennial (10 min)
- 1 oz Cascade (5 min)
- 1 oz Amarillo (0 min)
- 1 oz Ahtanum (dry hop)

WYEAST 1272 AMERICAN ALE YEAST II

The one thing I'm not sure about is the Corn Sugar addition... thoughts on that in particular?

 

[alexdagrate]

I had a Victory Yakima Twilight for the first time last Friday at Victory in Downingtown. This was the first time I've ever had this style and I must say I was blown away. :rockin:

I've been going back and forth on what to make for my second official batch of beer and noticed northernbrewer.com has a Black IPA listed. What are your opinions on this ingredient list:

Grains
- 0.25 lbs Dehusked Carafa III
- 0.25 lbs Chocolate Malt
- 0.5 lbs Briess Caramel 80
Fermentables
- 3.15 lbs Dark malt syrup (60 min)
- 6 lbs Dark malt syrup late addition (15 min)
- 1 lb Corn Sugar late addition (0 min)
Hops and Flavoring
- 1 oz Summit (60 min)
- 1 oz Simcoe (15 min)
- 1 oz Centennial (10 min)
- 1 oz Cascade (5 min)
- 1 oz Amarillo (0 min)
- 1 oz Ahtanum (dry hop)

WYEAST 1272 AMERICAN ALE YEAST II

The one thing I'm not sure about is the Corn Sugar addition... thoughts on that in particular?

I don't even use dark liquid malt extract in my stouts or porters. I don't know why anyone would use it in this style of beer.

 

[cheezydemon3]

How about BBB?

Bitter Black Beer