BJCP Tasting Exam

[malweth]

Yeah. The difference between an 80 and a 100 is which side of bed the proctors woke up on. A good example of this occurred at my tasting exam: we judged a bock entered as a "baltic porter". I dinged it hard for no roast, no hints of dark fruit, no alcohol warmth/complexity, and even suggested that it might place better as a bock! The proctors (2 Masters and a Grand Master) gave it a score of 35.

That's unfortunate. I'd hope the proctors would take the mis-categorized and seriously flawed beers and rate them as they'd expect the student to rate them.


I'm just now looking into studying for BJCP, so I'm still a long ways off from any tasting exam! Are there any hints (beyond the BJCP resources) for studying given the recent exam changes? What about for a non-brewer studying for and taking the exam (my brother is also interested, but he does not brew beer)?

 

[Yooper]

That's unfortunate. I'd hope the proctors would take the mis-categorized and seriously flawed beers and rate them as they'd expect the student to rate them.


I'm just now looking into studying for BJCP, so I'm still a long ways off from any tasting exam! Are there any hints (beyond the BJCP resources) for studying given the recent exam changes? What about for a non-brewer studying for and taking the exam (my brother is also interested, but he does not brew beer)?

The Study Guide is a great resource, and if you can take a "tasting class" I'm sure that would be very helpful. I live in the middle of no-where so no tasting class or teachings have been available, and I think it would be easier to do it with an expert, and other people, to see how we compare.

A non-brewer may have some difficulty, as you need to give helpful corrective action. Some of that is easy for non-brewers (a sour beer can have a suggestion of "make sure everything that touches the beer after the boil is sanitized!") but for an astringency issue it would help if he knew the basics of brewing, as the answer for corrective action might be more along the lines of checking sparge pH, or keeping the sparge temperature under 170, lowering the amount of roasted grains, etc.

If he wants to sit on a few brew sessions, and really study the study guide on mashing and sparging, he may be able to do it. There are many brewers I know who have great theoretical knowledge but can't brew very well themselves, so if he is the type to really delve into cause and effect in brewing, then he could probably do it.

 

[AmandaK]

Are there any hints (beyond the BJCP resources) for studying given the recent exam changes? What about for a non-brewer studying for and taking the exam (my brother is also interested, but he does not brew beer)?

Outside of the BJCP, I would highly recommend looking into beerjudgeschool.com.

It is ran by a Grand Master II out of California who proctors, administers and grades exams. By studying with him, I nearly got a Master score on my first attempt on the Legacy exam - 90 written and 88 tasting. He is on the forefront of the new exams and could be a great resource for you and your brother.

After 6 months of studying, he met me at a comp in Iowa for real, live judging. That experience was invaluable.

 

[Wayne1]

Another option is Better Beer Scores.

The folks offering this service are members in a couple of local clubs and are all fantastic brewers, judges and educators.

 

[LAjerm]

Thanks for all the tips, y'all have been helpful. If anybody has taken an exam lately I'd love to hear from them, I take my exam in two weeks

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for all the tips, y'all have been helpful. If anybody has taken an exam lately I'd love to hear from them, I take my exam in two weeks

Mine was in September, so not all that recently- but I don't think it's changed much.

The good thing was the results- when they analyzed my scoresheets, I got great feedback on the judging I did. I now see why it takes so very long to get the score back!

Pappers tested in July, and I tested in early September, and we both got our results around the 6th of January. I"m "certified" so the score was pretty good but I could have done better in my opinion.

 

[Phunhog]

I am scheduled to take the tasting exam in August. One thing that I think would help is too see how high ranking judges scored the commerical beers mentioned in the BJCP style guidelines. I realize that Zymurgy has the Commercial Calibration section but a lot of times they aren't judging the "classic" beers. My idea is to fill out a score sheet for a classic style beer say Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. Once filled out I would look to see how experienced beer judges scored the beer, their comments and how close my own score/comments were to theirs. Does anyone else think this would be helpful? Even if some of the BJCP judges on HBT were to do it I think it would be great.

 

[WilliamWS]

I also took the test in September and got my scores back a couple of weeks ago. My score places me at certified also but I need a couple more experience points to reach that rank.

Here are my thoughts:
It's a lot harder than you'd think. I studied and practiced on my own, mostly tasting and scoring the commercial examples on the bjcp website where they had sample score sheets. Mine always looked very similar in the comments and my scoring was almost always within 2 pts of the experts'. However, this didn't prepare me for scoring very flawed beers.

I was/am very familiar with off flavors, causes, remedies, etc. but it really is hard, if you haven't done it, to not only identify/suggest possible causes and possible remedies for off flavors but also pick out those beery elements hiding beneath the flaws, describe them and relate them to the stated style all while battling the clock.

In my case, most of the beers I'd been practicing on we're low-mid 30's and up. Of the six beers I was tested on, I scored only one over 25 (I gave it a 28) and two were under 20...and my scoring wasn't off. My numerical scores were National level. Where I lost points was on my descriptions and I generally feel like I'm very good at describing beers but with so much going on between flaws AND the normal nuances it's really tough to do well in the time given.

I think the only way to become more proficient is to judge more comps and gain more experience with bad (as well as good/great) beer.

 

[AmandaK]

Really, I think the only way to become more proficient is to judge more comps and gain more experience with bad (as well as good/great) beer.

I think you hit the nail on the head!

 

[Phunhog]

Mine was in September, so not all that recently- but I don't think it's changed much.

The good thing was the results- when they analyzed my scoresheets, I got great feedback on the judging I did. I now see why it takes so very long to get the score back!

Pappers tested in July, and I tested in early September, and we both got our results around the 6th of January. I"m "certified" so the score was pretty good but I could have done better in my opinion.

Does anyone know why it takes so long to get results? 4-6 months seems like way too long. I think my buddies got their Bar Exam results back faster!! Honestly though are the scoresheets sent out to Grand Master judges or do the proctors grade the score sheets?

 

[nukebrewer]

Does anyone know why it takes so long to get results? 4-6 months seems like way too long. I think my buddies got their Bar Exam results back faster!! Honestly though are the scoresheets sent out to Grand Master judges or do the proctors grade the score sheets?

As I understand it, the examinees' score sheets along with those of the proctors are sent to the BJCP where a National or Master judge will grade it then a secondary grading is done by a Grand Master to verify the results. The reason it takes so long is because they have exams coming in almost constantly from all over the country (world?) and they only have so many people available to grade them.

 

[AmandaK]

Does anyone know why it takes so long to get results? 4-6 months seems like way too long. I think my buddies got their Bar Exam results back faster!! Honestly though are the scoresheets sent out to Grand Master judges or do the proctors grade the score sheets?

It's a volunteer based organization with not a not of help.

As I understand it, the examinees' score sheets along with those of the proctors are sent to the BJCP where a National or Master judge will grade it then a secondary grading is done by a Grand Master to verify the results. The reason it takes so long is because they have exams coming in almost constantly from all over the country (world?) and they only have so many people available to grade them.

You are correct, sir!

 

[Darwin18]

I received my tasting exam results from the November 2012 exam I took here in Raleigh. I scored a 70, which is good enough for "Certified" but seeing as I haven't yet judged a competition, I'll be at "Recognized" for a little while. It took a while to get the results but I'm pleased with the score. I think after I obtain some actual judging experience that I might be able to score higher, but I'm very pleased.

 

[Pappers_]

I received my tasting exam results from the November 2012 exam I took here in Raleigh. I scored a 70, which is good enough for "Certified" but seeing as I haven't yet judged a competition, I'll be at "Recognized" for a little while. It took a while to get the results but I'm pleased with the score. I think after I obtain some actual judging experience that I might be able to score higher, but I'm very pleased.

Congratulations! Welcome to the "Recognized Beer Judge" club! I'll have enough experience points to get pushed up to Certified by the end of March, also. I'm with you, I think after a year or so of competition judging experience, I'll be able to add a few points to the tasting exam. Like in everything, experience matters.

 

[Darwin18]

Exactly! My first competition as a judge is in a few weeks (Shamrock 2013 - Carboy) and I'm really excited to go through the process and learn as much as possible. I've entered several competitions and done well, but I think it will help my brewing so much more to taste the beers that score well so that I can compare to my own. Any suggestions Pappers for a first time judge?

 

[Pappers_]

Any suggestions Pappers for a first time judge?

I've judged in exactly two competitions, as well as a couple club-only competitions, so I'm not the one you want to get advice from

I was fortunate at my first competition to be paired with a National judge who was patient and helpful.

 

[nukebrewer]

Congrats, Darwin! I hope to join the ranks soon. I took my exam exactly one month and a day ago and while I know the results are more than likely still a couple months away I am getting quite impatient. Not like in an I'm angry at the BJCP kind of way, just excited to find out whether I made the cut.

 

[lunchbox]

Exactly! My first competition as a judge is in a few weeks (Shamrock 2013 - Carboy) and I'm really excited to go through the process and learn as much as possible. I've entered several competitions and done well, but I think it will help my brewing so much more to taste the beers that score well so that I can compare to my own. Any suggestions Pappers for a first time judge?

Oddly enough, that competition is going to be my first as well. Of course it will be entering and not judging. If you get the stout or specialty beers, enjoy my beer!

 

[AmandaK]

Any suggestions Pappers for a first time judge?

Have candid conversations with the more experienced judges among you.

Be open to discussion after filling out a score sheet with the other judge. Ask those who are more experienced/have had sensory training to really describe what they mean with descriptors that you many not understand or may not pick up on.

Be humble - some judges have been doing this for 5, 10, 15+ years - you could learn a lot by just watching and listening! (You would be surprised at the amount of cockiness some people can exude after just passing their test - yes, it is a feat, but there is so much more to learn! Luckily, very few people have done this - but it is quite strange. )

Hope that helps!

 

[Darwin18]

Thanks AmandaK - that's really good advice. I've been talking with one of the judges who is active in the first competition that I'll be judging at and he's offered to meet with him and go over want to expect beforehand. I really just want to get more experience trying a wide array of styles and really get taste beers that range from dumpers to exceptional. I think it will really help to be a better brewer. I'll try to keep my cockiness level down! Any recommendations on what I should actually bring with me besides water, crackers, mechanical pencils? I printed out a copy of the BJCP guidelines and put them in a binder intending to use them as a reference.

 

[LKABrewer]

Go to the bjcp site and get the label format to print out labels with your name rank and email address. It is a pain to write all of that on each score sheet

 

[UnDeadPresident]

Another option is Better Beer Scores.

The folks offering this service are members in a couple of local clubs and are all fantastic brewers, judges and educators.

I took this course about a year and a half ago. I was in the inaugural class so they were still working out the bugs, but despite that the class was really good and actually helped me pinpoint some flaws and remedies in my own homebrew. Haven't taken the BJCP tests yet though, so I can't really speak to the class' efficacy on helping there. They did teach the course more from the perspective of taking and passing the tests, rather than understanding all of the minutiae behind brewing and the flaws that can come with it. Again, that was 18 months ago, so it may have changed since then.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks AmandaK - that's really good advice. I've been talking with one of the judges who is active in the first competition that I'll be judging at and he's offered to meet with him and go over want to expect beforehand. I really just want to get more experience trying a wide array of styles and really get taste beers that range from dumpers to exceptional. I think it will really help to be a better brewer. I'll try to keep my cockiness level down! Any recommendations on what I should actually bring with me besides water, crackers, mechanical pencils? I printed out a copy of the BJCP guidelines and put them in a binder intending to use them as a reference.

Bring labels! You can get the template at the BJCP website, or just look at them and make your own, but it gets tiring writing out your name, BJCP number and email address on each and every score sheet. Bring a sheet or two of your own labels, and slap them on the scoresheet.

Having the guidelines in a binder gets in the way- a simple staple makes it easier to use and flip pages and gives you more room to write and score. People with smart phones have the guidelines on their phone, which is nice because it's small. the table space tends to be pretty limited! If you have trouble adding the scores quickly, don't be ashamed to use a little pocket calculator. After sampling 12 beers, adding the scores (and writing out your info) can be tedious so take shortcuts if you can!

 

[Darwin18]

Good stuff Yooper. Thanks!

 

[AmandaK]

I've been talking with one of the judges who is active in the first competition that I'll be judging at and he's offered to meet with him and go over want to expect beforehand.

Great idea!

I really just want to get more experience trying a wide array of styles and really get taste beers that range from dumpers to exceptional.

First time I've ever heard anyone want to drink a dumper! I've had beers that have smelled like a dried cow turd that was rained on, dragged through a field of freshly cut hay and then dried out again. Judging beer is somewhat like Russian roulette - you never know what you're gonna get!

I think it will really help to be a better brewer.

This has been especially true for me.

Any recommendations on what I should actually bring with me besides water, crackers, mechanical pencils? I printed out a copy of the BJCP guidelines and put them in a binder intending to use them as a reference.

A well-run competition will have all of these things for you, including labels. I usually just bring my name badge and a bottle of water (I drink a lot of water) - I've seen others bring a favorite pencil.

A good thing to bring would be this set of PDF flash cards: http://www.beerjudgeschool.com/uploads/Beer_Characteristics_Flash_Cards.pdf After all, constructive feedback is what we're after, not just: "Color: good, Flavor: good." or "I like this beer!"

 

[WilliamWS]

I'm thinking I'm going to start bringing my own tasting glass. I've noticed that I'm pretty sensitive to plasticy phenols and getting past the plastic smell of the cups can be a bit of a challenge for me sometimes, especially for lighter styles. Also, after seeing how many cups we went through at the comp that I judged a couple of weeks ago (763 entries) it just seems like such a waste.

 

[Phunhog]

Judged at my first comp yesterday!! Learned a lot and had a good time but I now know what palate fatigue is all about. Since they were short a few judges my partner and I judged two flights (Light Hybrids and IPA's) for a total of 14 beers. I think it was just too much...towards the end ( almost 4 hours) we just wanted to finish. It was much harder to put into words what I was tasting, smelling, seeing than I thought it would be. I have a question for you experienced judges....how long do you spend on each beer? I know when you take the Tasting Exam you only have 15 minutes but what about a real comp? I was doing the math in my head yesterday and if we took 15 mintues per beer and took no breaks it would take 3.5 hours!! That is a long time to do anything without a break!!

 

[nukebrewer]

Judged at my first comp yesterday!! Learned a lot and had a good time but I now know what palate fatigue is all about. Since they were short a few judges my partner and I judged two flights (Light Hybrids and IPA's) for a total of 14 beers. I think it was just too much...towards the end ( almost 4 hours) we just wanted to finish. It was much harder to put into words what I was tasting, smelling, seeing than I thought it would be. I have a question for you experienced judges....how long do you spend on each beer? I know when you take the Tasting Exam you only have 15 minutes but what about a real comp? I was doing the math in my head yesterday and if we took 15 mintues per beer and took no breaks it would take 3.5 hours!! That is a long time to do anything without a break!!

When I judged in my first comp (as a novice) my partners (different partners for each of two flights I judged) and I were averaging about 5 minutes per beer.

 

[Wynne-R]

Are you sure? Five minutes is pretty quick to fill out a scoresheet.

BJCP Judges Procedure says the Judge Director should :

Allow 2 ½ hours for each session. Experienced judges can evaluate 12 entries in two hours - approximately 10 minutes per entry.

 

[nukebrewer]

Are you sure? Five minutes is pretty quick to fill out a scoresheet.

BJCP Judges Procedure says the Judge Director should :

Maybe my perception was skewed by being nervous about my first judging experience, but that's about how long I felt like it took for each beer. At least to get to the point where we were discussing each other's scores, which was only a couple minutes at most.