Bizzaro World's Jenna Jameson

[Shank]

I know, I know. It leaks. Right.

I'm just gonna throw it out because I'm confused. And usually I ask the question, then after a few days I realize it was dumb and get embarassed. But asking helps. Even if I already know the answer.

That being said, I kegged (corny keg with ball locks) a Pale Ale 1 month ago. It refuses to carbonate. I had just refilled my CO2 tank. I added priming sugar (1/2 cup to 5 gallons brew) and let it sit at garage temp for 3 days, with CO2 set at the normal rate. It was still flat, so I cranked up the CO2 and just put it in the fridge. Impatient, yes. Now, 1 month later (grew some patience or just getting frustrated and giving up), I check the pressure in the keg (just did tonight after 1 week) and it was chock full of CO2, all kinds of gas leaking out loudly, waking up the neighbors and stuff. I pour the beer into the growler and it is nothing but FOAM. A complete growler full of foam. I cap it and let it sit for 10 minutes and get about half a growler's worth of beer. Pour it into a glass. Bizzaro Jenna Jameson: COLD and FLAT. Nothing. This is my second batch I've kegged and the first came out just fine. This one, not so much. I don't understand it. I've experimented with leaving the pour line on, taking it off. There is a small puddle of beer in my fridge, but it is solidifying now and looks to be about 3 weeks old/hard. I think maybe one of my poppets is bad as I noticed tonight (through my tears) a small amount of beer leaking out of the post after I took off the pour line. Please tell me that I can go buy a replacement post/poppet and force carb my beer and it will be alright. How to replace the poppet? Poppet out with a screwdriver or something?

 

[KevinM]

A small spray of beer will probably come out when you take off the pour line (pressure from keg plus the poppet is still coming up when the pour line is taken off) but it shouldn't drip any more after that's removed. I do that every time I remove my pour line (which I do after every glass right now. Only one pour line and the kegs are outside. I could keep the pour line out there, but I've been removing it and tossing it in the fridge.)

What was your initial process? Did you try using both sugar and co2 where your "normal rate" is 15 psi? What was the "garage temp"? (Hey, some of our garages are below freezing right now.) Haven't seen a thread where both was done so I don't know the expected timeframe, but sugar and gas separately at about 15 seems to say 3 weeks average, except for a short force carb.
Plus, when you cranked it up, what was it up to? (30psi for 30 days?)

How did you check the pressure? Did you have a spunding valve or something similar, or did you just vent it?
It kind of sounds like it was overpressurized at that point where all it dispenses is foam which according to some threads means you can kiss any carbonation goodbye when it gets to the glass because it all blows off in the foam. I'm thinking you'll have to bleed down the pressure over the next day or two to get back down to a decent pressure.

I overpressurized and got the same thing on my first keg last month (still trying to bleed it down to where I want it right now.) But my second keg *was* carbed despite being in a secondary (hey, it poured perfectly for my taste tests). Then I had to vent and add some things (including a bit of dextrose) and mistakenly left the relief valve completely open so no pressure built at all. Got a spunding valve almost setup for my first keg, and just going to recarb the second keg.

 

[chaydaw]

Yea I don't really understand your method. Did you prime or force carb? Both? In any case it sounds like the beer did indeed get carved but was over carbonated hence the foam. Also you can't expect to fill a growler from the tap anyway. Too big of a vessel straight from a keg.

 

[Shank]

A small spray of beer will probably come out when you take off the pour line (pressure from keg plus the poppet is still coming up when the pour line is taken off) but it shouldn't drip any more after that's removed. I do that every time I remove my pour line (which I do after every glass right now. Only one pour line and the kegs are outside. I could keep the pour line out there, but I've been removing it and tossing it in the fridge.)

What was your initial process? Did you try using both sugar and co2 where your "normal rate" is 15 psi? What was the "garage temp"? (Hey, some of our garages are below freezing right now.) Haven't seen a thread where both was done so I don't know the expected timeframe, but sugar and gas separately at about 15 seems to say 3 weeks average, except for a short force carb.
Plus, when you cranked it up, what was it up to? (30psi for 30 days?)

How did you check the pressure? Did you have a spunding valve or something similar, or did you just vent it?
It kind of sounds like it was overpressurized at that point where all it dispenses is foam which according to some threads means you can kiss any carbonation goodbye when it gets to the glass because it all blows off in the foam. I'm thinking you'll have to bleed down the pressure over the next day or two to get back down to a decent pressure.

I overpressurized and got the same thing on my first keg last month (still trying to bleed it down to where I want it right now.) But my second keg *was* carbed despite being in a secondary (hey, it poured perfectly for my taste tests). Then I had to vent and add some things (including a bit of dextrose) and mistakenly left the relief valve completely open so no pressure built at all. Got a spunding valve almost setup for my first keg, and just going to recarb the second keg.

This overpressurized thing sounds like my culprit. I check for pressure just by venting it and when gas comes screaming out I reckon I've got CO2 in there. But yeah, I'm in sunny SoCal, nighttime temps might get down into the 50s. I added .5 cup sugar while racking it into the keg and then hooked up the CO2 at about 10 psi and let that sit for 2-3 days. Then I had some buddies coming into town, so I cranked it up to 25 psi and put it in my garage fridge in the hopes of force carbing it quick so we could all drink it. It was still flat.

At that point I left it up at 25 psi for probably a week or so. So I suspect I have completely over carbed it. Like I said, a growler full of foam and half a glass of flat beer. I'm gonna try changing out a few O-rings and lube everything up good, then I guess let it sit with the vent open a few days and bleed off the CO2. Then just carb it for a week or so in the fridge at 12 psi (my fridge is at 44 degrees F, I'm looking for a CO2 volume of 2.3).

Question (if all the above is correct): So I don't need to add priming sugar when kegging and using CO2? I guess it is redundant, but I was taught to add priming sugar (albeit in lesser amount) when kegging and this was further reinforced in books I read.

And why can't I fill a growler from a keg? My garage is downstairs from my apartment and I am too lazy to fill a glass, walk back upstairs, sit down, drink, walk back downstairs, refill, etc.

 

[chaydaw]

You don't HAVE to add priming sugar. You are combining two different methods of carbing your beer. You can a) use priming sugar and wait a couple weeks and then the CO2 is only used for dispensing the beer or b) use the CO2 to actually carb and dispense your beer. If doing this you can go two routes: a) set at an appropriate PSI for your style/preference and come back in 1-2 weeks and your beer will be carbed or b) set at 30psi for 2-3 days and HOPE you hit a good carbonation level. I tried this and don't really like it because I can't control/know what my actual carbonation level is. So in short, you only need to use one method or the other. Since you essentially used both, you got definite over carbonation. Hope that clears it up.

You can try to fill a growler if you are going to drink it that night but it becomes very difficult filling something that large from a keg without losing a lot of carbonation and creating a lot of foam. Again if your'e going to drink it that night I would advise getting that growler as cold as possible and filling it at a very low psi.

 

[KevinM]

What chaydaw said.
Also, you may not necessarily have to bleed out all the current co2, just try to release a bit at a time until it's down to 12psi. (It's kinda difficult without a pressure gague though, kind of like a spunding valve).
Some people just do the priming sugar and let the keg carbonate for a month because it saves on co2 usage (only using the co2 tank for dispensing, rather than carbing and dispensing). Usually this is where their kegerator is full so they figure might as well since it'll sit out anyways.

Nothing wrong with filling a growler from a keg. The situation is best when the beer is at it's coldest so it doesn't release it's carbonation as quickly, and using what looks like a weighted tube so that the beer comes out at the bottom of the growler to prevent too much release of carbonation and foam. (Don't fill it using a picnic tap from the top of the growler for example.) I made that mistake recently. keg to glass was fine and still carbonated, but the extra agitation made it all foam and left me with flat beer.

**Edit**
Here's a sample of what I'm talking about for growler filling. It's just an extra plastic tube really, but http://www.kegworks.com/product.php?productid=18982&cat=394&page=1

 

[Shank]

Thanks guys. I just unhooked the CO2 tank and the pour line and am bleeding off CO2 in short bursts every few hours or so. Then hopefully I can leave it at 12 psi in the fridge for some time and have a viable product. Your experience and brains are much appreciated here. Hopefully it works out.