Big Starters for Big Beers

[AQUILAS]

How do you guys go about making starters for big beers?

I've got a 1.083 OG beer planned and it called for a 4.5L starter of Wyeast 1028. I've never made a starter this big before and I only have 1 stir plate and 1 flask (2L).

Originally, I was thinking I could just make a 2L starter, let it ferment/crash/decant, pitch that into another 2L starter, let it ferment/crash/decant, and then pitch that into a 0.5L starter, and let it ferment/crash/decant until pitch. But then I'm wondering if that might have a negative impact on the yeast.

So now I'm thinking of just buying 2 packs of the yeast and making 1 2L starter, letting that ferment, crash, and then place into a santized mason jar. Then do a 2.5L starter with the other pack, let that ferment, crash, and then place into a mason jar.

Someone suggested making a small beer (like 1-2gal) similiar in style with a 2L starter and then once that ferments out, just pour the 1.083 wort on top of the yeast cake.

Any ideas or suggestions?

 

[Remmy]

How do you guys go about making starters for big beers?

I've got a 1.083 OG beer planned and it called for a 4.5L starter of Wyeast 1028. I've never made a starter this big before and I only have 1 stir plate and 1 flask (2L).

Originally, I was thinking I could just make a 2L starter, let it ferment/crash/decant, pitch that into another 2L starter, let it ferment/crash/decant, and then pitch that into a 0.5L starter, and let it ferment/crash/decant until pitch. But then I'm wondering if that might have a negative impact on the yeast.

So now I'm thinking of just buying 2 packs of the yeast and making 1 2L starter, letting that ferment, crash, and then place into a santized mason jar. Then do a 2.5L starter with the other pack, let that ferment, crash, and then place into a mason jar.

Someone suggested making a small beer (like 1-2gal) similiar in style with a 2L starter and then once that ferments out, just pour the 1.083 wort on top of the yeast cake.

Any ideas or suggestions?

1.085 needs a 4.5L starter? That's crazy.

 

[iijakii]

I'd make a single starter and be done with it. If you want to decant and step it into a second starter that's up to you. Overkill to me.

 

[TechyDork]

what is your batch size here?

 

[nettekdl]

Either you put something in wrong or have very old yeast because you only need around 300 billion cells which is easily attainable with a 2l starter assuming around 80% viability

Edit: that is assuming a 5gal batch

 

[mbbransc]

Imperial lager?

 

[AQUILAS]

1.085 needs a 4.5L starter? That's crazy.

I hope I'm wrong. This is my first big beer and when I saw that starter size, I was floored.

I'd make a single starter and be done with it. If you want to decant and step it into a second starter that's up to you. Overkill to me.

Do you mean one 2L starter?

what is your batch size here?

This'll be for a 5.5 gallon batch.

Either you put something in wrong or have very old yeast because you only need around 300 billion cells which is easily attainable with a 2l starter assuming around 80% viability

Edit: that is assuming a 5gal batch

Going for a 5.5 gallon batch size and I'll have to play beersmith again to make sure I had all the correct information. I don't have the yeast yet, so beersmith just put some default(?) numbers into the yeast information fields and that's what it came up with.

Imperial lager?

Old ale. Christmas old ale.

 

[Hopper5000]

Try plugging it in here:

http://www.yeastcalculator.com/

This will help you with your step-ups. I would just step it up once and call it good.

 

[wardens355]

I use Brewer's Friend for calculating yeast starter volumes and it has served me well. I come up with around 1.5 L starter, gravity around 1.04, assuming 75% viability. FermCap recommended at 1.5L in a 2L flask.

 

[mbbransc]

I don't have the yeast yet, so beersmith just put some default(?) numbers into the yeast information fields and that's what it came up with.

I bet this is the issue. Probably default yeast packing date of 2012, or something. Update that, and I bet you'll be good-to-go.

 

[AQUILAS]

I bet this is the issue. Probably default yeast packing date of 2012, or something. Update that, and I bet you'll be good-to-go.

Would you say it'd be safe to buy 2 packs of yeast, just in case?

 

[Oginme]

I make a recipe with the yeast (10 liter batch) and reuse the yeast cake. IMHO, when you get to multiple starters it is better to make a small batch instead of using a lot of DME which will end up getting discarded.

 

[abeasst]

I did a 10gal batch last week with an OG of 1.077 and just did a 2L stepped starter. The beer fermented out to 1.012 in just a few days.

 

[AQUILAS]

I make a recipe with the yeast (10 liter batch) and reuse the yeast cake. IMHO, when you get to multiple starters it is better to make a small batch instead of using a lot of DME which will end up getting discarded.

It makes sense. The guy who originally recommended I make a small beer reasoned it with, "you're going to make beer anyways, why dump so much of it just for the yeast?"

I did a 10gal batch last week with an OG of 1.077 and just did a 2L stepped starter. The beer fermented out to 1.012 in just a few days.

Nice. So it seems like I'll just need a 2L starter, if not just a bit more. I didn't get a chance to play with my beersmith yesterday, but I'm gonna chalk up the 4.5L starter to beersmith defaulting old dates to the yeast information.

 

[Oginme]

Actually doing one this weekend. Brewing a Scottish Heavy (OG= 1.043) and will use the yeast recovered from the carboy for a Strong Scotch Ale (OG= 1.088) when the Heavy is done.

 

[AQUILAS]

Just an update.

I went to one of my local brew stores yesterday that had wyeast 1028 and I bought two packs, both dated 08/27/2015.

Got home, fired up beersmith, input the yeast information for 2 packages. I noticed I left the "use stir plate" box unchecked, so I checked it and BOOM....470-something cells! Way over the amount needed.

Then it clicked. When I made this thread, the 'use stir plate' box wasn't checked. That's what was throwing it off. So now, with that box clicked, I only needed 1 package of yeast with a 1.5L starter for 310 billion yeast cells.

Stupid mistake by me, but a learning experience nonetheless.

 

[TheMadKing]

I just pitched a 1.5L stir plate starter at high krausen into a 1.088 beer. I had krausen in 4 hours.

 

[AQUILAS]

I just pitched a 1.5L stir plate starter at high krausen into a 1.088 beer. I had krausen in 4 hours.

That's the vitality starter method right?

 

[TheMadKing]

That's the vitality starter method right?

Sort of. I wasn't clear in my first post, but my starter was on the stir plate for 18 hours before pitching. I had krausen in my beer at 4 hours post pitch.

At 18 hours most, if not all, of the cell division is going to be completed, which means that I likely pitched close to the proper number of cells (maybe a little low). The only difference between this and a normal starter was that I didn't cold crash and decant.

I would normally decant off the starter beer if I were making a more delicately flavored beer like a pilsner, but in a double black IPA I wasn't concerned about off flavors and I didn't have time to cold crash and decant.

My usual method is to cold crash and decant, then add 500mL of fresh starter wort and put it back on the stir plate for about 3-4 hours before pitching.

I think the only advantage of this technique (and its very arguable) is that the yeast is in its metabolically most active state, and are fully oxygenated and ready to go.

This absolutely hasn't been proven, but speaking from personal experience, I have seen krausen is as little as 1 hour after pitching using this method. but I usually see it between 4 and 6 hours later.