Big dead wasp floating in my boiling wort!!!

[JOHN51277]

Do you know anybody else allergic to wasp stings?

Maybe someone could guinea the fist bottle.

A mother-in-law perhaps? Or a boss?

I like the way you think. I seriously doubt it will have any ill effects on me. I will try a half pint first, then a 6 pack if the half pint dont drop me.

I have decided to call it the Amarillo Hopped Hornet IPA!!

 

[Yooper]

I like the way you think. I seriously doubt it will have any ill effects on me. I will try a half pint first, then a 6 pack if the half pint dont drop me.

I have decided to call it the Amarillo Hopped Hornet IPA!!

I'm not a doctor (paramedic by trade, but even retired from that now) so my advice is useless. But........I'll give my input anyway. That's what we women do. Anyway- you're allergic to bee stings and of course that's serious. But if it didn't sting you, I don't know how the venom could be released. I wouldn't suggest eating him, but I don't think you were planning to anyway!

 

[JOHN51277]

This is what I have so far!!!

 

[Fingers]

I like the way you think. I seriously doubt it will have any ill effects on me. I will try a half pint first, then a 6 pack if the half pint dont drop me.

I have decided to call it the Amarillo Hopped Hornet IPA!!

I'm thinking a diluted oral dose will have a dramatically different result than the direct sub-cutaneous application we all know and love so much. Just to be on the safe side, though, you should swear loudly and dance around vowing revenge when you drink it. The ritual has some protective effects.

 

[JOHN51277]

I'm thinking a diluted oral dose will have a dramatically different result than the direct sub-cutaneous application we all know and love so much. Just to be on the safe side, though, you should swear loudly and dance around vowing revenge when you drink it. The ritual has some protective effects.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[badhabit]

I would say you have just come up with a new twist on honey malt.

 

[pernox]

I'm not a doctor (paramedic by trade, but even retired from that now) so my advice is useless. But........I'll give my input anyway. That's what we women do. Anyway- you're allergic to bee stings and of course that's serious. But if it didn't sting you, I don't know how the venom could be released. I wouldn't suggest eating him, but I don't think you were planning to anyway!

Yoop,

Do you think it feasible that the heat of boiling wort would be enough (and for long enough duration) to "loosen" whatever membrane or sac that contains the venom? Enough even that it would destroy it, or heat the venom itself enough to burst its enclosure? That would be my concern; getting the whole dose in the batch if in fact it's not de-toxed by boiling/alcohol.

 

[Yooper]

Yoop,

Do you think it feasible that the heat of boiling wort would be enough (and for long enough duration) to "loosen" whatever membrane or sac that contains the venom? Enough even that it would destroy it, or heat the venom itself enough to burst its enclosure? That would be my concern; getting the whole dose in the batch if in fact it's not de-toxed by boiling/alcohol.

I have no idea!

 

[steve055]

Venom is just a series of complex proteins. The heat from the boiling wort would certainly denature the proteins making them inactive. If nothing else, as posted above, the alcohol would do the same.

 

[beerthirty]

I'm with fingers on this one. People have been drinking snake venom for years and they dont die or get sick unless they have ulcers. The stomach contains acids that eat almost anything.

 

[JefeTheVol]

I'm with fingers on this one. People have been drinking snake venom for years and they dont die or get sick unless they have ulcers. The stomach contains acids that eat almost anything.

Um, thats not true at all. Stomach acids assist in breakdown of proteins along with other gastric enzymes but the antigenic sequences remain, if only in pieces. People with a gluten allergy eat gluten and the antigen (gluten) still reaches the intestines.

Lets first assume that wasp venom was extracted into your beer and boiled for a certain amount of time. If the wasp venom denatured in the heat of the boil it could certainly renature upon cooling. Not all proteins are destroyed in a boil because some proteins are self-folding and do not need molecular chaperones to refold to their original structure. Here is a paper where wasp venom was denatured and injected into test animals and the venom still had an effect on the mouse, although reduced in effect.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TBR-4HNS6KB-1&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F31%2F2006&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1279827310&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=af90b84baea11a1e4cc84479182df829

Now, the effect of the mouse is the "direct effect" of the toxin, that is a different effect than your hypersensitivity reaction to the venom. 2 different reactions. Now, ingesting the venom would also be completely different from being stung because of the route of administration is enteral vs parenteral (injected).
Real world example: ingesting nicotine does not result in nicotine addiction while inhaling nicotine(smoking) can. This is because when you ingest something it is broken down in your liver before it reaches your systemic circulation where inhalation bypasses this first-pass metabolism.

Anyway, its possible that the venom could still cause a reaction in your gut depending on 2 things. 1) if your immune system is sensatized to the venom (aka you've been stung before and it caused a reaction. 2) Your body synthesized IgE antibodies to venom antigen.

Its also possible that because you have been exposed to the venom subcutaneously that your gut epithelium will not react the same way as your skin. Example being a flu vaccine's: snorting a flu vaccine produces a different response to the flu antigens than a flu vaccine shot.

My advice would be to get a badass name for the beer and drink it with a supply of benadryl close by.

 

[MeatyPortion]

I have ten dead fruit flies floating in my whiskey decanter. I left it open one night, oops. They add flavor, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[SevenFields]

dry hop with more Wasp's, then drink!

 

[beerthirty]

jefe, wow a little to deep for my brain so I didn't even read your link info. My main point was that while many substances are dangerous injected, orally they are safe due to the stomachs ability to break them down. Note: my info comes from discovery channel and the like. Not an expert, just trying to pass on what I had learned from those sources.

 

[Fingers]

Um, thats not true at all. Stomach acids assist in breakdown of proteins along with other gastric enzymes but the antigenic sequences remain, if only in pieces. People with a gluten allergy eat gluten and the antigen (gluten) still reaches the intestines.

Lets first assume that wasp venom was extracted into your beer and boiled for a certain amount of time. If the wasp venom denatured in the heat of the boil it could certainly renature upon cooling. Not all proteins are destroyed in a boil because some proteins are self-folding and do not need molecular chaperones to refold to their original structure. Here is a paper where wasp venom was denatured and injected into test animals and the venom still had an effect on the mouse, although reduced in effect.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=af90b84baea11a1e4cc84479182df829

Now, the effect of the mouse is the "direct effect" of the toxin, that is a different effect than your hypersensitivity reaction to the venom. 2 different reactions. Now, ingesting the venom would also be completely different from being stung because of the route of administration is enteral vs parenteral (injected).
Real world example: ingesting nicotine does not result in nicotine addiction while inhaling nicotine(smoking) can. This is because when you ingest something it is broken down in your liver before it reaches your systemic circulation where inhalation bypasses this first-pass metabolism.

Anyway, its possible that the venom could still cause a reaction in your gut depending on 2 things. 1) if your immune system is sensatized to the venom (aka you've been stung before and it caused a reaction. 2) Your body synthesized IgE antibodies to venom antigen.

Its also possible that because you have been exposed to the venom subcutaneously that your gut epithelium will not react the same way as your skin. Example being a flu vaccine's: snorting a flu vaccine produces a different response to the flu antigens than a flu vaccine shot.

My advice would be to get a badass name for the beer and drink it with a supply of benadryl close by.

Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night by any chance?

 

[JOHN51277]

Well, it has a nice thick krausen on top and it fermenting away nicely. I can't wait to try this.

 

[simcoe4life]

Are you drinking this beer yet? I just brewed an IPA today and have the exact same issue...a wasp was floating in the wort when the boil was finished.

My intuition is that it will be just fine, but curious if you've drank yours yet.

 

[JJL]

I doubt you will have an issue with your allergy. I've seen guys who are allergic actually pick them up and eat them without being harmed. Although, an epi-pen is a good suggestion.

 

[Photopilot]

Did anyone try the CDC? I was just there today, no that was KCDC I was at. I always think of the one in Atlanta when I visit Cedar City UT. There are a world wide research center for diseases and venoms and the first place an emergency room would call if you came in with a bad case of Hornet IPA.

I could not find anything on their site for drinking wasp venom, but since they have a 24 hour 1-800 number maybe call them and skip the middle-man. I have had an allergic reaction before and would not want to repeat it.


Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,
1600 Clifton Rd, Atlanta, GA 30333, U.S.A.
800-CDC-INFO (800-232-4636) TTY: (888) 232-6348, 24 Hours/Every Day

 

[simcoe4life]

I actually have the wasp that was in my beer, intact, and saved. I can clearly see that the stinger is still in it so I wonder if that means the venom seeped out.

 

[Brewdouche-RuBrew]

More wasp = beer with more bite



Save your text about bite vs. sting

 

[JOHN51277]

No bad effects came from drinking this, and I have had about 10 of them.

SO.......Maybe if I throw a live wasp/hornet in each of my beers I brew it will build up an immunity to the stings........(I'm kidding)

The beer has a nice flavor and "sting"

 

[simcoe4life]

Glad to hear that the beer is ok. I'm feeling pretty good about my IPA! :rockin: