BIAB RIMS without drilling kettle?

[petrolSpice]

I'm interested in a RIMS setup for BIAB, but at the moment I'm not too keen on drilling the kettle to install a fitting at the bottom. The other option is to run a tube from the bottom of the kettle from underneath the false bottom, then up and out the top of the kettle. It's not clean, but would be cheap and easy. Are there any concerns with this?

And a side question... I only have 110V in my garage and it's probably on a 20A or 15A breaker. What kind of heating element would suffice? I brew 7-8 gallon batches, so the mash is 10-14 gallons depending on grain bill (full volume mash). My goal would be to not have to use any insulation and be able to mash out at 170F in a reasonable amount of time.

Thanks!

 

[markstache]

Let me be the first to say that drilling is really easy. But if you don't want to, then the tube solution send reasonable. I'd recommend either silicon or steel. For the latter, you'd basically reverse a steel racking tube.

 

[Larst]

I Think this could be what you are looking for:

http://www.haandbrygforum.dk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9117

Copper manifold that extends out of the pot. You could lose the false bottom and gain a little volume for the grain.

Danish forum, but the pictures say it all

 

[Bobby_M]

Siphoning into a pump is a pain in the butt.

 

[petrolSpice]

Siphoning into a pump is a pain in the butt.

Are the commonly used wort pumps not self priming?

 

[Bobby_M]

They are not.

 

[aamcle]

You can save your self some heart ache by sticking with a standard recirculating system. I made one, they are easy to make, easy to use and they make perfectly good wort.

Good Luck. aamcle

 

[Onkel_Udo]

You would have to figure out how to prime the pump and maintain prime and this is not a simple matter (as already indicated).

All you need to drill a kettle is a drill, a stepper bit that ends at 13/16'ths. If you are afraid to do it on you good kettle, get an el cheapo from AiH or a scratch and dent from Amazon Warehouse deals.

Even using a method like the website linked above was a pain as a mash tun (did this when living in Austria) because getting a siphon to start and stay going was almost impossible.

 

[petrolSpice]

My reasons for not drilling the kettle are...

-Have to find someone to sanitary weld in a fitting, $60 minimum
-With a valve on the kettle, it may not fit into my sink anymore for chilling in ice bath
-I heat the water and boil with a propane burner. Are there valves out there that will not be damaged from the heat of the propane burner?

I understand the siphon/pump priming issue. Will have to think that over.

 

[dryboroughbrewing]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/silver-soldering-diy-brewing-vessel-upgrades.html

shield your valves with a piece of steel so they don't get too hot to handle.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

My reasons for not drilling the kettle are...

-Have to find someone to sanitary weld in a fitting, $60 minimum
-With a valve on the kettle, it may not fit into my sink anymore for chilling in ice bath
-I heat the water and boil with a propane burner. Are there valves out there that will not be damaged from the heat of the propane burner?

I understand the siphon/pump priming issue. Will have to think that over.

I had a 3-tier on propane with ball valves for over 20 years. Never leaked, never failed. They were even the cheapest brass NSF full port ball valves I could find and I still use one of them 23 years later on the eBIAB rig.

You can use weldless fittings if you can control your burner and probably even if you cannot. Silicon o-ring goes on the inside and is good for 450 f.

If you are considering recirculation before considering a chilling method other than an ice bath, I question your priorities. They are yours so it is not insult...just a bit of confusion.

 

[petrolSpice]

If you are considering recirculation before considering a chilling method other than an ice bath, I question your priorities. They are yours so it is not insult...just a bit of confusion.

Good to hear about the ball valves holding up.

I'll look at weldless fittings. I guess I would need something as low profile as possible, i.e. doesn't stick out too far from the side of the kettle.

The ice bath is a supplemental cooling method. Primary cooling is done by immersion chiller which is really only good down to 80-90F or so. The ground water here isn't too cold. The ice bath takes it down the extra 20-30F to pitching temp.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

The ice bath is a supplemental cooling method. Primary cooling is done by immersion chiller which is really only good down to 80-90F or so. The ground water here isn't too cold. The ice bath takes it down the extra 20-30F to pitching temp.

$15 pond pump dropped in that sink with your ice water instead of the pot going in. Outlet of the pump to inlet of your IC. Outlet of the IC back to the sink of icewater.

 

[petrolSpice]

Would a 1650 watt element be able to not only maintain mash temp but also do a mash out to 170F in a reasonable amount of time?\

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016XMF0LW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[TexasWine]

Would a 1650 watt element be able to not only maintain mash temp but also do a mash out to 170F in a reasonable amount of time?\

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016XMF0LW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

No need to mash out with BIAB. It's a waste if time. See the last few posts in the thread linked below.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=593471

 

[petrolSpice]

No need to mash out with BIAB. It's a waste if time. See the last few posts in the thread linked below.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=593471

Ah good point!

So would 1650W be enough to maintain mash temp? I brew ~8 gallon batches so the mash volume can be up to 13 gallons depending on grain bill. Hoping to not have to use any insulation or lid during mash.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

FYI, about to install two of these elements in my new 20 gallon pot for 10 gallon BIAB. The two 1500W elements did great in my old system but this allows me to go ULWD and they are only about $5 each more than my LWD coils in my keggle.

 

[TexasWine]

Ah good point!

So would 1650W be enough to maintain mash temp? I brew ~8 gallon batches so the mash volume can be up to 13 gallons depending on grain bill. Hoping to not have to use any insulation or lid during mash.

Yes. I use a 1500 watt element and the largest I have brewed is a 12 gallon batch.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Would a 1650 watt element be able to not only maintain mash temp

Again, why the aversion to insulation. $12 of relfetix gives you tow layers. Custom fit it, then slit it. Use painters tape or self stick velcro to hold it on but make it removable for direct flame heating or clean-up or chilling.

 

[petrolSpice]

Again, why the aversion to insulation. $12 of relfetix gives you tow layers. Custom fit it, then slit it. Use painters tape or self stick velcro to hold it on but make it removable for direct flame heating or clean-up or chilling.

I'm not opposed to insulation, in fact I use reflectix currently on my BIAB setup. But why use insulation if the RIMS heater can maintain mash temp without it?

 

[Onkel_Udo]

I'm not opposed to insulation, in fact I use reflectix currently on my BIAB setup. But why use insulation if the RIMS heater can maintain mash temp without it?

Uniformity as you probe only measures one or two locations, right? That and I have no use fo RIMS so I forget that many people leave it (and the pump) running the entire mash...my bad.

 

[RedlegEd]

I'm not opposed to insulation, in fact I use reflectix currently on my BIAB setup. But why use insulation if the RIMS heater can maintain mash temp without it?

Mainly because the RIMS just keeps the recirculating wort at a constant temperature. That doesn't mean the entire mash maintains that temp. Unless you stir fairly frequently to maintain a constant temp through the grain bed, the outer edges will begin to cool much faster than the inner/center part where the recirculated wort is being directed. Ed

 

[petrolSpice]

Mainly because the RIMS just keeps the recirculating wort at a constant temperature. That doesn't mean the entire mash maintains that temp. Unless you stir fairly frequently to maintain a constant temp through the grain bed, the outer edges will begin to cool much faster than the inner/center part where the recirculated wort is being directed. Ed

I see, thanks Ed. My reason for going RIMS is to "set it and forget it" during the mash. Although this means more hardware, it's meant to simplify the overall process. But it sounds like this is not totally the case as the mash would still need to be stirred to maintain a constant mash temp.

Is there a re-circulation return method that maximizes mash mixing?

Eventually I'd like to go with a single-vessel BIAB stand with a RIMS, pump, controller, burner, etc.

 

[TexasWine]

Is there a re-circulation return method that maximizes mash mixing?

I get very good temperature consistency across the grain bed using one of those loc line multiple nozzle gizmos. I've never found a need to stir when using it.

 

[whovous]

Do you submerge the LocLine or spray it above the wort? If the latter, is oxygen an issue?

 

[petrolSpice]

I get very good temperature consistency across the grain bed using one of those loc line multiple nozzle gizmos. I've never found a need to stir when using it.

Like this?

 

[TexasWine]

Like this?

That's the one, only I don't let the returned liquid fall. The loc line is submerged.

Edit: Here's mine.

 

[iijakii]

I'm not opposed to insulation, in fact I use reflectix currently on my BIAB setup. But why use insulation if the RIMS heater can maintain mash temp without it?

Because with insulation you'd avoid the few hundred+ dollars on a pump, RIMS tube, drilling your kettle etc. Up to you. The more complicated systems are fun but they're not exactly "set it and forget it" as you think. Well, at least not when compared to just wrapping up your BIAB kettle. A couple of degrees loss over the course of the mash won't make a noticeable difference to your beer.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Because with insulation you'd avoid the few hundred+ dollars on a pump, RIMS tube, drilling your kettle etc. Up to you. The more complicated systems are fun but they're not exactly "set it and forget it" as you think. Well, at least not when compared to just wrapping up your BIAB kettle. A couple of degrees loss over the course of the mash won't make a noticeable difference to your beer.

I agree completely, I have actually thought about putting a small electric element hot plate under my electric kettle to act as a warming plate to maintain temps during the mash. Something simple like this to put a couple hundred watts on the kettle. Perhaps under a tile riser box that the kettle sits on...sort of like a warm brewing bench. Just enough heat to keep the mash temp a bit more stable. Ok go ahead and laugh ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Elite-Cuisi...962777?hash=item4b08c96219:g:pJcAAOSw8w1X5BM2

 

[iijakii]

I agree completely, I have actually thought about putting a small electric element hot plate under my electric kettle to act as a warming plate to maintain temps during the mash. Something simple like this to put a couple hundred watts on the kettle. Ok go ahead and laugh ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Elite-Cuisi...962777?hash=item4b08c96219:g:pJcAAOSw8w1X5BM2

I wonder if on a low setting it'd be enough to maintain temps without overheating the bottom too much.

Maybe just build an insulated box and have a space heater blowing at your kettle, lol.