I just did a BIAB of BM's Centennial Blonde Ale I followed the recipe for 5 gals and the only change I made was add a .5lbs of the 2-row to make up for my inefficiency. I tasted the wort and it was very astringent tasting. It may have something to do with my method which is as followed. I dont have a big enough pot for a 5gal batch so I used my bottling bucket as a mash tun I put 6 gals of 168* water into it then added all my grains in a sack to that which brought the temp down to 150* I left it in for 60 mins stirring it every once in awhile by the end of the 60 mins the temp was still the same. I pull the bag out and strained pretty well. I then split the wort between two pots to boil with about 3 gals in one and 2 gallons in the other. I brought both pots to a boil but only added the hops to the 3 gallon one at the end of the boil I cooled the wort and combined them into the fermenter I shook this vigorously to aerate and mix the worts. Then I added my yeast which was rehydrated nottingham yeast I put the yeast in to some of the drip off from the bag about 4 oz of it and it was about 85-90* when I did this this sat in a jar for about 1.5 hrs I started it when I started the boil. The gravity came out to 1.042 which is almost on but it tasted very bad and it is very murky looking not clear at all. the fermentation took of and was really going crazy the next day. Did I do something wrong here?
BIAB Centennial Blonde
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House12
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The murkiness is due to the fact that you can't vorlauf with a BIAB. It's debatable whether that murkiness continues through boil and fermentation into the final beer.
From what you have posted, the only question I have is what you mean by, "I pull the bag out and strained pretty well." If you strain a BIAB enough to get every last bit of extract from the grain, you risk tannin extraction. This is really the main reason why brewers generally don't get as high of an efficiency with BIAB as they do with a separate mash and fly sparge. Too much squeezing out drops of extract is the BIAB equivalent of over-sparging your grains.
I must admit, I don't understand how you were able to keep your mash at 150F for 60 minutes while openly stirring it in a bottling bucket.
From what you have posted, the only question I have is what you mean by, "I pull the bag out and strained pretty well." If you strain a BIAB enough to get every last bit of extract from the grain, you risk tannin extraction. This is really the main reason why brewers generally don't get as high of an efficiency with BIAB as they do with a separate mash and fly sparge. Too much squeezing out drops of extract is the BIAB equivalent of over-sparging your grains.
I must admit, I don't understand how you were able to keep your mash at 150F for 60 minutes while openly stirring it in a bottling bucket.
House12
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Did you happen to sample your grains in your mouth before mashing them?
If the wort is really that bad, I can't help but wonder if your had some bad malt in there.
Also, did you have too fine of a grain crush? A super-fine crush mixed with over-straining your bag could definitely lead to astringent polyphenol extraction.
If the wort is really that bad, I can't help but wonder if your had some bad malt in there.
Also, did you have too fine of a grain crush? A super-fine crush mixed with over-straining your bag could definitely lead to astringent polyphenol extraction.
My guess is the bucket had something to do with it. I normally biab in stainless, but I have used a cooler many times and it's been great. Also, house12 may have a different experience, but I believe the whole tannin extraction from bag squeezing has been completely disproven these days. I personally have brewed the last 15 batches or so by squeezing as much as I can get out and never had any astringent flavors.--not even a hint.
Regarding the murkiness, I'm not sure what is expected after a traditional vorlauf, so I cant weigh in on that one. I use whirlflock during the boil and everything drops right out nicely for great looking beer in the carboys.
Did you say you had done other biab batches in the past? If so, what did you mash in for those?
Regarding the murkiness, I'm not sure what is expected after a traditional vorlauf, so I cant weigh in on that one. I use whirlflock during the boil and everything drops right out nicely for great looking beer in the carboys.
Did you say you had done other biab batches in the past? If so, what did you mash in for those?
House12
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No real different experience here. Just trying to come up with possible reasons for the astringency.
What came to my mind first was stale/moldy grains or possibly a super-fine crush leading too a long and meticulous squeeze. I doubt azbrew did that, but I'd be willing to bet that a fine powder of crushed malt squeezed to the last drop would lead to a pretty murky/astringent wort.
The grains looked and smelled fine I didn't taste them so I cant say on that. It wasn't a fine crush it seem pretty coarse the LBS crushed them for me and didn't make it any finer because I was doing a BIAB he just did the normal crush. I also used whirlflock at 15 minutes in the boil a lot of stuff dropped out it but still doesn't seem as clear as it should be. In the boil the 2 gallon pot had a lot more vigorous boil and looked like it was "coagulating" is this the hot break? The 3 gallon didn't have as strong of a boil and didn't look the same as the 2 gallon. Could this have caused a weird taste like that? Is it ok to do a separate boil like I did with hops on in one pot?
bigdongsr94
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I tried to start my AG brewing with the centennial Blonde. I had the exact same issue...3 times in a row. People rarely mention this but the idea behind 1.5 qt/lbs mash ratio plays a huge role in making a lower OG pale like the blonde. I dont recall the recipe exactly but its only like 8lbs of grain to your 6 gal of wort bringing you in at a 3qt per lb of grain ratio. This pale recipe has little to drop the pH of the mash. I have hard water and that will resist change and pH also. The higher pH, say 6, will help release tannins from the grain husks. People say tannins release need temperature and a higher ph but I regulate my temps well, lowered my water to grain ratio and the tannin issue dissappeared. Go with a thicker ratio. You could also bring your kettle up to mash temp and pull the bag from the mash bucket and place in the kettle with the remainder of the water to get a little bit of a sparge. Do that or buy lactic acid and a pH meter to monitor your mash so you do not run too high.
keesh
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I thought this was a myth and that tannin (over)extraction is actually a result of too high pH and temps.
bigdongsr94
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It is a myth and a busted one at that. Squeeze a little, squeeze a lot. Low efficiency is really just about bunching the grain up in a bag. Also all Biab'ers don't have low efficiency, it's just easy to do when your just starting and once again the grain is bunched up in a bag.
Murkiness isn't a factor that carries through to the finished product, I make crystal clear beer using BIAB. The tannin thing is rehashed over and over, and it's simply not true... in regards to squeezing causing it.
No one seems to be asking the OP the second part of the pH question: What about your water? If it's really hard water, we might have the answer.
No one seems to be asking the OP the second part of the pH question: What about your water? If it's really hard water, we might have the answer.
It seems to be clearing out a little. How is the wort supposed to taste? I hear a lot of people saying it taste great when its still green but didn't see anything on how the wort itself would taste? I didn't get to sample to wort until about 5 minutes after the yeast was pitched would this give that weird taste? The water I use is really good well water and it is not hard at all.
Burgs
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+1
+1
Also, is this your first batch, or have you done a few others and tasted the wort right after the boil/chill?
In my experience, my worts generally taste like two things going on - a sticky sweetness from all the sugar, and a bitterness from the hops. Over time these flavors will come together more. You mentioned it tasted "astringent" - do you think this could possibly just be the green flavor of hops?
That's my guess. Of course, if this isn't your first batch and the wort tastes wildly different than other ones you've done, we might need to look at other things.
Burgs
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I can appreciate what the final product will taste like, and I don't think wort by any means is bad tasting - but I've never drank my hydrometer sample and said wow that tastes "great". Normally I'd just say, well that tastes like... good wort, I guess.
*edit* and to add another frame of reference, I had a friend over last brew day that I was teaching the basics to, and I had him taste the hydrometer sample before we pitched the yeast. He compared it to "Staleys" - which is a factory here in town that produces starch-based products. Not really a glowing review.
*edit* and to add another frame of reference, I had a friend over last brew day that I was teaching the basics to, and I had him taste the hydrometer sample before we pitched the yeast. He compared it to "Staleys" - which is a factory here in town that produces starch-based products. Not really a glowing review.
This is my second BIAB batch so I cant say I know what wort is supposed to taste like. Was my method a good way of doing it with the two put so I could do 5 gals? I would like to do another batch soon but worried the the method i used for this might no be the right way to go. Has anyone else brewed like this before?
i would guess you are fine and just need to RDWHAHB. Wort tastes much different than finished beer IME and can be surpisingly bitter / or shocking tasting IME.
Burgs
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I don't think there's anything too crazy about your split boil method. If you keep doing it though, I would probably split the hops too and add them to both pots. Another thing you may want to account for is boiloff - you will lose more to evaporation by having two pots going, I'd think.
Burgs
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It's 3 gallons in one and 2 in the other? I'd say just eyeball it and throw a little more in the larger volume. My reasoning was just to get both of those boils as similar to each other as possible & then combine them.
Burgs
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Or for people who don't feel like using theirs anymore.
BIAB is essentially using a bag to separate the liquid from the grain, rather than a false bottom or a braid or a manifold or another type of non-bag filter. From there, people take it in all sorts of directions, that's probably why it's confusing.
Check out my post on the BIAB with pictures Sticky thread if you wanna see how I do it. I'm getting really good results, and my brew days are easy!
wolfman_48442
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This is a great post, and hits the nail squarely on the head.
However, rather than mash thick, which is hard to do in BIAB without your efficiency going straight to hell, the lactic acid is, IMHO, the easiest way to get your mash ph back to the 5.3-5.4 it needs.
Using Martin's (mabrungard) excellent Bru'n Water worksheet makes it much easier to figure out what you need to do.
Even if you don't add any minerals (which can be intimidating at first), the worksheet will show you exactly how much acid to add. You can add acid (saur) malt instead. They both work great.
Bigscience
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I'm going to try this one BIAB but 10 gallons in a kettle this weekend. I know people say you can't pull it off but I figure this one is low enough OG why not give it a try. I'm also going to put in some acid malt and monitor the pH to make sure I'm in range.
Bigscience
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Well we pulled off a 10 gal BIAB Centennial Blonde. It was a challenge but it worked. Here's what I did:
14 lb 2-Row
1 lb C10
l lb Vienna
1.25 lb Dextrine
2 oz Acid Malt (our water is really soft)
52.5L (13.9gal) Strike water at 159F
Doughing is was a huge PITA and we actually ended up taking out some a the water so we could stir and then added it back in. Once it was all in there, we were FULL. Mashed 60 minutes then pulled the bag up some and mashed out at 165. Ended up with 48L (12.7gal) of 1.039 wort preboil. Boiled for 60 minutes and had 40.4L (10.7 gal) of 1.045 wort in the fermenters.
While this technique is doable for lower gravity low hop use beers, I'm wondering if it could be applied to bigger brews but mashing at a lower ratio and then topping up. Maybe that will be next round.
I've never made this beer but am anxious to see how it turns out.
14 lb 2-Row
1 lb C10
l lb Vienna
1.25 lb Dextrine
2 oz Acid Malt (our water is really soft)
52.5L (13.9gal) Strike water at 159F
Doughing is was a huge PITA and we actually ended up taking out some a the water so we could stir and then added it back in. Once it was all in there, we were FULL. Mashed 60 minutes then pulled the bag up some and mashed out at 165. Ended up with 48L (12.7gal) of 1.039 wort preboil. Boiled for 60 minutes and had 40.4L (10.7 gal) of 1.045 wort in the fermenters.
While this technique is doable for lower gravity low hop use beers, I'm wondering if it could be applied to bigger brews but mashing at a lower ratio and then topping up. Maybe that will be next round.
I've never made this beer but am anxious to see how it turns out.
buckeye2011
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I've done this method a few times and it worked great.
Typically, if I have a large grain bill I'll mash in ~6 gallons of water and either dunk sparge in a bottling bucket with 1.5-2 gallons of water heated on my stove to 175. Or if my 'first runnings' are pretty close to SG I'll simply pour the sparge water over the elevated grain bag directly into the kettle.
Either way I give the bag a nice squeeze to get any remaining wort out (the wire rack from my microwave works great for sitting the bag over the kettle).
I get higher efficiency this way but if I can skip it I usually do.
Typically, if I have a large grain bill I'll mash in ~6 gallons of water and either dunk sparge in a bottling bucket with 1.5-2 gallons of water heated on my stove to 175. Or if my 'first runnings' are pretty close to SG I'll simply pour the sparge water over the elevated grain bag directly into the kettle.
Either way I give the bag a nice squeeze to get any remaining wort out (the wire rack from my microwave works great for sitting the bag over the kettle).
I get higher efficiency this way but if I can skip it I usually do.
Bigscience
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Same hops, and the wort was tasty. There seemed to be more break than I'm used to in a typical AG batch though. I'll post back once it's all kegged up.
I just tested the gravity of my blonde and after a week in the primary it is at 1.010 the weird taste mellowed a little bit but is still there I'm going to let it sit one more week in primary then I'm going to rack it onto some gelatin for one week then bottle I think the weird taste will be gone by then hopefully don't want to have to condition it for a very long time.
Bigscience
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Not to stir up any drama but I find when I don't rack regardless of how long I primary, I can end up with a funky flavor. My theory is the racking rouses the yeast just long enough to let them clean up after themselves.* So if you secondary, don't add the gelatin for at least a few days to allow this.
* This is my theory and while it may not go along with the prevalent lines of thinking about only primary brewing, it's what I do and what works for me.
* This is my theory and while it may not go along with the prevalent lines of thinking about only primary brewing, it's what I do and what works for me.
